Dancer Archive
Thread: Discussion of constructive modifications to the recursive macroing removal
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Doriana
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:48 am
#1
Hiyas. 
I'm sure we've all been debating this issue on our galaxy boards like crazy as well as here. I know I have.
The threads here and on the Flurry boards have pretty much long degenerated into flame wars of a magnitude hitherto unseen in the Galaxies universe, so..
I'm going to post this constructive idea here and ask that we keep this thread for discussing either this or other ideas on how to make the best out of changes to the macroing system and NOT A DISCUSSION OF IF THE CHANGES ARE GOOD OR BAD, AND NOT A DISCUSSION OF IF THEY SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T HAPPEN. Just ways to make the transition and the new system as good as possible since the devs have already said it will happen.
Original thread that started this: Petition to take recursive macros out of the game
Idea and please discuss:
Personally I think this would be a better idea than removing it all together -- you could still make modular macros but you'd still have to show that you're ATK to run them.
I'm sure we've all been debating this issue on our galaxy boards like crazy as well as here. I know I have.
The threads here and on the Flurry boards have pretty much long degenerated into flame wars of a magnitude hitherto unseen in the Galaxies universe, so..
I'm going to post this constructive idea here and ask that we keep this thread for discussing either this or other ideas on how to make the best out of changes to the macroing system and NOT A DISCUSSION OF IF THE CHANGES ARE GOOD OR BAD, AND NOT A DISCUSSION OF IF THEY SHOULD OR SHOULDN'T HAPPEN. Just ways to make the transition and the new system as good as possible since the devs have already said it will happen.
Original thread that started this: Petition to take recursive macros out of the game
Idea and please discuss:
DigiDante wrote:Oooh Oooh, I got an idea!!!What about a confirmation window when looping?Say the macro goes through once and then with the loop or ui action command, you get a popup window asking you to confirm that you are at the computer. Make it similar to slicing window... this way there is no possible way to macro it and you have to be at the computer in order to make the macro continue....What do you think? This particularly isn't a solution, but it is an alternative that just sprung into my head...Also with my idea... make the confirmation window randomize the "Yes" and "No" options. This way you have to read it instead of setting up a third party program and breaking EULA.
Personally I think this would be a better idea than removing it all together -- you could still make modular macros but you'd still have to show that you're ATK to run them.
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:09 am
#2
I've got an even better idea that would make more people happy.
It has already been sent to TH. Give me some time and I'll format it for posting on the forum.
It has already been sent to TH. Give me some time and I'll format it for posting on the forum.
Schardour
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:12 am
#3
Awesome Look forward to reading it.
Look forward to reading it. There's another idea about Player-ownedBuff Vendors floating around the Entertainer forums. (Titled BUFFBOTS for a ridiculous reason.) I personally don't agree with the concept, but others may.
Sigrun
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:16 am
#4
Recursive (I prefer to call them looping) macros are not the problem. They're actually a very nice feature of this game when they're not being "abused".
Unattended gameplay is the problem.
You can attempt to remove one of the enablers of unattended gameplay by removing the ability for macros to loop, but that will only encourage enterprising people to use third party programs (or create their own) to AFK play for them.
There are two ways to solve the unattended gameplay problem, and only two ways to solve it. I mean *really* solve it. Not just make it tougher to do. Make it gone.
One option is to increase the size, training, and authorityof the CSR staff so that they can effectively police for AFK conditions and suspend and/or ban accounts for infractions and repeated infractions. This method requires considerable ongoing investment for SOE and will likely raise the ire of folks who are having non-AFK related issues but still can't get a CSR to respond to them.
The other option is to understand why people choose to AFK parts of the game and correct those deficiencies. As relates to this forum - Dancers - that could include any of the suggestions that have been made in this forum and by its correspondent to enhance the ATK dancer's capabilities.
Message Edited by Sigrun on 08-05-2004 09:17 AM
Doriana
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:46 am
#5
Sigrun wrote:Recursive (I prefer to call them looping) macros are not the problem.
and this thread is not for debating if looping stays or go, this thread is for suggestions on minimizing the negative effects of the removal of looping as per current dev statements.
/bonk
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:49 am
#6
Alright, a brief overview of the proposal I sent to TH over there.
As far as enforcing it, someone on one of the entertainer forums (Sorry, forgot who and where) had a good idea of giving CSR the ability to force a pop-up on your screen that you have to answer to. This could be used any number of ways from just disconnecting you to flagging your account for further investigation.
As far as enforcing it, someone on one of the entertainer forums (Sorry, forgot who and where) had a good idea of giving CSR the ability to force a pop-up on your screen that you have to answer to. This could be used any number of ways from just disconnecting you to flagging your account for further investigation.
Sigrun
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:49 am
#7
The best way to eliminate or reduce the negative impact of removing looping macros is to not remove them in the first place.
Solve the real problem.
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:53 am
#8
Sigrun wrote:The best way to eliminate or reduce the negative impact of removing looping macros is to not remove them in the first place.Solve the real problem.
You realize that the macros provide a convenient crutch and excuse not to fix the problems, right? If they remove that, they could be forced to address some of the reasons people use macros.
I only said some of the reasons. There are people who use macros just because they can, or because they personally don't find something interesting. Remember, not everybody is the same. Something that some people find lots of fun, others could find a boring grind. I don't know about anyone else, but if I find something boring, I find something more interesting to do instead.
Doriana
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:56 am
#9
Tiaga wrote:
I've got an even better idea that would make more people happy.
It has already been sent to TH. Give me some time and I'll format it for posting on the forum.
Thank you!
I was just getting tired of seeing any constructive things buried by all the negativity and flaming.
And I liked Selusa's idea as a starting point for discussion.
I'm sure yours will be good too 'cause honestly I haven't seen a bad idea from any of our ent corres yet.
Sigrun
Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:18 am
#10
Tiaga wrote:
Sigrun wrote:
The best way to eliminate or reduce the negative impact of removing looping macros is to not remove them in the first place.
Solve the real problem.
You realize that the macros provide a convenient crutch and excuse not to fix the problems, right? If they remove that, they could be forced to address some of the reasons people use macros.
I only said some of the reasons. There are people who use macros just because they can, or because they personally don't find something interesting. Remember, not everybody is the same. Something that some people find lots of fun, others could find a boring grind. I don't know about anyone else, but if I find something boring, I find something more interesting to do instead.
Yes, they might provide a convenient crutch to the devs for not fixing tedious, boring stuff in the game. But if you elminate our only ingame workaround to that tedium and boredom and all you've succeeded in doing is making the game more tedious and boring.
How about if, instead of removing the one ingame feature that helps reduce tedium and boredom, we ask the devs to fix that which is tedious and boring FIRST? Novel concept? Think it might work?
There are plenty of very positive things that come from macros and the ability to put a macro into a toolbar slot.
Let's not give those up because your constituency and maybe you in particular decided to front removing macros as the "best" solution to removing buff-bots. I don't likebuff-bots either. But this is still the wrong solution to that problem.
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:30 am
#11
Who said anything about removing macros or the ability to put them in toolbar slots? I don't recall seeing anything saying either would happen.
Sigrun
Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:40 am
#12
Tiaga wrote:
Who said anything about removing macros or the ability to put them in toolbar slots? I don't recall seeing anything saying either would happen.
If macros can reside inside toolbar slots,the abilityfor macros to loop is not eliminated.
If macros cannot call toolbar slots and can't use the /macro command, that would eliminate looping macros. But calling toolbar slots is one of the most useful features to macros, and it's at the core ofwhat makes macros valuable in SW:G. Eliminate a macro's ability to call a toolbar slot and you might as well eliminate macros entirely.
I've read and re-read Thunderheart's post and his one reply in that 100+ page thread. He clearly states that they will remove recursive macros, which he defines as a macro that calls itself.
If that's all he's doing, he's not eliminating any AFK / looping capability at all.
We're all assuming that his goal is to eliminate AFK play (which he also stated), which he can only do if he removes a macro's ability to reside inside a toolbar slot and/or a macro's ability to call a toolbar slot. Either way, he cripples the benefit of macros.
Tiaga
Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:53 am
#13
*sigh*
Computers are more flexible than that. They can be programmed to do nearly anything. There are a million ways to stop recursive macros besides just removing commands. (Probably literally.. Computers are that flexible.)
Computers are more flexible than that. They can be programmed to do nearly anything. There are a million ways to stop recursive macros besides just removing commands. (Probably literally.. Computers are that flexible.)
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