Dancer Archive
Thread: Player cities...AFK solution or not?
It's early still, but I'm going to say that Raven's prediction that player cities and player run cantinas being some sort of solution to AFKers isn't materializing on my server. In fact, it might be going the other way.
In my quest to find a better cantina, I've recently started checking out player-run cantinas in player cities. I've traveled to several planets and a variety of player cities (thankfully most of them have shuttle ports now, so it's not too bad). My first shock came when checking the map on my first planet, in this case Dantooine. There were no less than 12 cantinas, and in every one it showed an entertainer there! All excited, I began to travel around. Then begin to check other player cities on other planets, such as Tatooine, Corellia, Naboo, etc.
I'd say 90% of the cantinas I checked had an AFKer, sometimes more than one, and the rest were empty. I've yet to find a single player run cantina with a live entertainer in it.
Here's what I believe I've found. Every city feels the need to have a cantina to make hunting out of their city successful. People need their mind wounds and battle fatigue healed! Do they hire entertainers to staff it? Nope. The problem with real entertainers is they want to be paid for their time, and they're not there all the time. So someone in the city parks their AFK entertainer 24 hours a day so everyone in their guild/city can have healing whenever they want.
I don't blame them, then need to draw people there and having entertainers 24x7 helps. But, in my experience so far, player cities are not helping the AFK problem at all, and may in fact be making it worse by escalating the need for more AFK entertainers...one in every city. Fact is, outside of mind buffs, they're better than us because you don't have to pay them or tip them.
What have other people found? Is it just my server? Am I unlucky?
If anyone else out there is on Bria, are there any cantinas that you know of that ban AFKers and support live entertainment?
- J
If they would do this on every server, and if people knew about it (that's the hard part since 99% of players don't read the forums), it would go a long way to solving the acrimony that has developed between the two types of players.
C
Our new (and game-worthy) computer has been in the shop for repairs for a couple of weeks, so I've taken the time to search the forums with regard to player cities, cantinas, and similar topics with our old (not game-worthy) computer. What I've found is that thereseem to beseveral cities on several galaxies that are "roleplaying-centric."
My reading indicates that In the larger of these cities (primarily Vagabond's Rest on Starsider), afk entertaining is rare for the simple fact that it isn't profitable in either xp or credits. The entertainers who are there are there because they want to be social and interact with people, and therefore they won't group with afkers. The patrons who come to cantinas in these cities are also going because they want to be social, so the typical "I'm watching the afk dancer so I won't have to tip" mentality is absent.
The problem, however, is that these cities are extremely rare. I've followed several attempts to lauch roleplaying cities on the various server boards, and they're not always terribly successful. Additionally, many of the newer roleplaying towns tend to be quite small; small cities = few citizens = few patrons for cantinas = little interaction, little xp, no credits. While the xp and credit loss are of marginal importance, the lack of interaction is a killer.
Ultimately, it's one of the main things that's killing our profession and our sister profession. If you want to interact, you have to go where the people are. If you want to learn a new dance, you have to go someplace where there are people to watch you and people to group with. With few exceptions, these places are crammed full of afkers. The socialite performers will be turned off by this, because it offers very little interaction in and of itself. The people who show up tend to have a low opinion of performers, primarily because the performers they see are usually macrogrinding their way to master.
Of course, I'm not saying anything new. I've basically decided to give up my dancer on Tarquinas (I couldn't find a single RP city on Tarquinas)and start from scratch on Starsider. I'm going to pay a visit to Vagabond's Rest and see if it actually is better there. I've heard promising things, so I'm hopeful. I'm going to miss exotic2, but I'm currently missing meaningful conversation with other performers even more. If Vagabond's Rest turns out to be less than I hoped, I might try my hand at being an artisan, though it'd break my heart.
- Javier
I must admit that I afk macro in my cantina now. I used to just log out when i wasn't playing, but now when i am at work or sleeping i macro dance at my cantina. For a few reasons:
1. I have my own cantina now... and want it to be used. I want people who trek to see my cantina to be able to find someone dancing to cure their wounds.
2. My cantina is in the boonies on Dantooine. Having someone dancing constantly helps those folks who base out of our small village when they are hunting.
3. I'm not stealing any exp from grinders... no one else is performing in my cantina and I am a Master, i have no need for exp.
That's work of course. But perhaps not as unpleasant as starting over.
C
picklesSW wrote:
I'm really praying the answer isn't "start over on another server". I busted my butt to get master dancer and tailor, I'm not sure I'm ready to ditch all that work.
- Javier
It wasn't my first choice either. Upon reflection, though, I really did enjoy climbing the hill the first time. I haven't even made it to the top yet, and I've been playing my dancer since the day after launch (I spend more time chatting at banks than actually dancing, and my time is extremely limited). While I did manage to garner a tinyportion of respect on Tarquinas, it's nothing I couldn't earn again elsewhere. More importantly, I still have all the knowledge of a long-term SWG dancer, and that trumps any actual coded dance step. I can make basic1 look decent, and I can run enough delivery missions to get myself a nice outfit.
Anyway, you might try the roleplaying forum and see if anyone on Bria knows of a semi-rp town. If not, you could consider Chessack's idea and partner up with a like-minded politician in order to start your own non-afk settlement. Lord knows, there are a sizeable majority of uson theboards who arein the same plight, so there must be a percentage of people in-game who feel similarly. I'd love to start a cantina on Tarquinas;unfortunately,I simply don't have the time for that, so I'm going for the Starsider option. I'll let you know how that turns out when I get my computer back.
Best of luck with whatever you choose!
Chessack wrote:
Hey! Keren isn't awful. It's the prettiest town in the game. I loved it there. I only left because so did everyone else (out to the player towns) and dancing to an empty cantina is not any more fun than dancing amongst a group of AFKers (oh wait, they're the same thing).
I like Keren, its a nice town. As far as prettiest goes, not sure if any cities on the live servers have theuber gardens yet but if now just wait and see. There are awesome.. if you haven't seen them stop by TC and check out new Unity.. there was a bug that erased them yesterday but I think their back now. Beautiful fountains, gardens, gazebo's and stuff. Man I love that town. 
Player cities defiantely hold the potential to be prettier then any NPC city.
I see your point about new people having it rough, hopefully they'll think to try the boards to find out where the good cities are on that server but if not it might be a little rough getting started. I'm actually glad to hear the NPC towns are starting to become Ghost towns more or less, hehe. But I guess not everyone will see it that way. Sounds like some servers are much slower in the move then others are.
every player city i go to is pretty much empty... just like the real cities.
maybe more time.... allow the cities to develop a bit more.
It sounds like things are going pretty much like I figured on most servers except its moving a lot slower then I thought it would. Player cities were never suppose to be a cure for a problem, just something that provided the possibility to escape from the problem more or less.
Like I said before, theres going to be cities that let people AFK entertain.. most cities probably will actually. But on most servers theres going to be a few that cater to the non AFK's and give them somewhere to go. It sounds like you may not be having much luck with that on your server tho Pickles and that really sucks. 
The idea of starting your own for that purpose isn't a bad one, surely theres other entertainers on your server that would like a place to go without the AFK bots.. I can't imagine your alone in that.
Part of the problem is players are taking longer to get out of those aweful NPC towns and move out to the Player ones. In some cases this is because several player towns have been using things like /warn for griefing and that might scare some people. Thats gone now tho and the cities that are going to do the best in the long run are the cities that cater to merchants and entertainers and try to bring in a lot of commerce.
I said at first I thought it would take at least a month or so before people started moving out of the old cities, seems like its taking longer. I guess its hard to break habit.
The biggest problem I see is that the holotainer aspect has just really exploded.. every profession is suffering from that tho, not just us. The game has turned into an endless field of AFK bots, entertaining, healing, crafting, sampling etc.. with so many more AFK people out there now then there was before its hard to get away from them.
I'd really encourage everyone to get away from their habits and those NPC cities and get out there and start looking for a city that fits your needs better, one without the horde of AFK people. If a Cantina like that can't be found try finding a city that will let you place and run one and get the word out to the others like yourself that an escape from the AFK madness can be found there. I'd be surprised if it doesn't do well. I know I'd sure take the first shuttle I could to a city like that if I was drowning in a sea of AFK bodies in Coronet or Theed.
Ultimately tho, this horde of the AFK isn't going anywhere until the Devs either find a better way to get to Jedi or almost everyone has their FS slot opened. That or they get midevil on the AFKers arse and do something to stop it, which I just doubt more and more will ever happen.
Message Edited by Ravenmist on 12-11-2003 12:05 PM
Ravenmist wrote:Part of the problem is players are taking longer to get out of those aweful NPC towns and move out to the Player ones.
Hey! Keren isn't awful. It's the prettiest town in the game. I loved it there. I only left because so did everyone else (out to the player towns) and dancing to an empty cantina is not any more fun than dancing amongst a group of AFKers (oh wait, they're the same thing).
I actually think empty NPC towns is a bad thing not a good thing. New players can't start in player towns. They can't know which ones are good or bad. In the past there were only a small # of towns to choose from. It took only a short while of exploration for me to figure out that Deeja Peak was empty, Moenia was laggy, Theed was a cesspool of AFKers and powerlevellers, and Kaadara and Keren were the "places to be" if I wanted a fun time dancing. Can you imagine how long that'd take with 15 cities instead of 5 on every major starter world?
I just joined a guild and put a house in their town and am still organizing furniture and so on, but after the holidays (when I have settled down and am back on my regular computer instead of the laggy laptop with the crappy graphics card) I plan to make regular excursions to Keren (easy now with a shuttle port right in my home town). I'd rather see the NPC towns NOT become just that ("NPC only" towns), but continue to have vibrant populations as they did before the player cities went live.
Ravenmist wrote:The biggest problem I see is that the holotainer aspect has just really exploded.. every profession is suffering from that tho, not just us. The game has turned into an endless field of AFK bots, entertaining, healing, crafting, sampling etc.. with so many more AFK people out there now then there was before its hard to get away from them.
Yeah, this method of opening the force slot (mastering a bunch of random professions, which is more or less what it seems to be) was a just brilliant move.
I have defended the Devs over almost everything else they have been flamed for, but THIS one was a really bone-headed, stupid move on their part. It'd have been better to not put Jedi in the game at all. It's also self-contradictory. They say "We don't want a lot of Jedi," but then they say, "AFK Macroing to master in a week is OK with us," which means that there ultimately WILL be a lot of Jedi. Oh I just can't wait till there are 1,000 Jedi on every server. And the worst part of it is that all of them are going to be the uber-leet "I pwned joo!" clowns and Jedi are going to become the EQ-druids of SWG. The class that should be the most presitigous and honor-filled, will become the class of griefers, twinks, and morons.
What a brilliant, brilliant move the FSCS method was. Not.
C
I have only checked a few player cantinas, but so far they have been totally empty, no entertainers of any kind, AFK or not.
And some player cities do not even have a cantina yet.