Dancer Archive
Thread: Thoughts on Dancing Issues
Hello all, I just wanted to post my feelings on some issues with the Dancing profession. Have not read all the boards so hopefully these ideas have not all ready been posted.
First off I don’t think AFKing should be stopped, not until SOE does something different with the path to becoming a Jedi. Most people are being asked to do something that is not fun to them, to become a Jedi and it should not be made worse.
This is a game and it should be fun.
Now I am not saying the AFKers are not causing problems for people as it is very obvious it is a problem.
What needs to be done is changes to the dancer class that makes it more beneficial to watch an active rather than an AFK dancer.
Not sure how good mind buffs are but they should be comparable to doctor buffs. I see people looking for doctor buffs and paying for them, if mind buffs are as good, I would think people would seek them out. (Sorry only novice Dancer right now)
Make mind buffs only work in a player city may be a way to help push people to seek out dancers in a player cities, but the lack of starports in player cities will keep those from just passing through from going to a player city.
Give dancers the ability to end spice withdrawal. This would require a command and the dancer would have to target a player.
Give dancers the ability to perform special types of dances once an hour. The following dance types could be included:
BattleDance – Adds a fixed amount of bonus to damage to the dancers target. Last for 60 minutes on the player.
Dance of Concentration – No crafting can have a critical failure for 15 minutes. Works on single target.
Dance of Healing – Increases the healing potential of the dancers target for 60 minutes. Maybe a medic can heal for higher damage than the stimpack provides.
I am sure others can be added and these could be refined.
To make dancers feel they can be more of a partin the GCW:
The dance of discovery – This dance only works in player cantinas of a declared faction. The targeted player is forced to Overt by the dance if they are the opposite faction of the dancer. Again this can be used once an hour.
The dance of leadership – This dance allows the target to be able to have one extra faction pet out for 60 minutes.
Well I hope these ideas can stimulate people in how to make dancing more fun and also make it more beneficial to watch an active dancer rather than an AFK one.
/agree
I do think one thing may help in an odd way. On other threads we have noted that the healing XP rate is much lower than it used to be. I wonder if that means there will be tons of AFK Macroed dancers and musicians with 4/0/4/0 who then pretty much have no way to get to master any faster than the rest of us (i.e in months and months of slowwwww healing xp).
If it becomes a prof you can't macro master in a week, maybe less people will do that.
C
I'm not confident that the addition of new dances or abilities would do anything to motivate people to abandon afking. Afking is a tool used to gain rewards for doing nothing. I don't think many of the people who afk would be enticed by the ability to perform new dances, because they obviously don't even enjoy the old ones. While the effects of the proposed dances would be different, the actual dancing would be similar to what's already in the game.
The point about healing xp being reduced (patrons watchingATK dancers for buffs)might be valid, though the combat medic/mind poison route is typically employed by people who are just grinding through the profession. Even if it's not, slower acquisition of healing xp isn't really much of an issue, since the people aren't actually at the keyboard anyway. If it takes one week or if it takes three, it's not appreciably more inconvenient. Besides which, these discobots are online twenty-four hours a day, which gives them far more time to accrue said experience than the average atk entertainer.
I think it's an interesting approach at solving what is clearly a tremendous problem. Ultimately, however, I think the only thing which will significantlyalter the amount of unattended gameplay in SWGis the complete inability to do so, coupled with an ammendment to the EULA. Until that happens (and I'm not holding my breath), the profession designed for socializers will continue to be the loneliest in the game.
I'm honestly not sure if removing /ui toolbar and changing the EULA is a good thing for the game at this point, however. Most of the entertainers who originally chose the profession for the purpose of social interaction havealready left. Only a handful remain, which makes the afkers the majority. If the game is changed to make afking impossible, entertainers will all but disappear. The game depends on entertainers, so their presence is mandatory. It may just be that we'll have to leave the job to the afkers and try something else. Combat characters and medics can get groups, so perhaps those are the new "entertainers." It's a depressing thought, isn't it?
Kerevic wrote:
Hello all, I just wanted to post my feelings on some issues with the Dancing profession. Have not read all the boards so hopefully these ideas have not all ready been posted.
First off I don’t think AFKing should be stopped, not until SOE does something different with the path to becoming a Jedi. Most people are being asked to do something that is not fun to them, to become a Jedi and it should not be made worse.
I feel it should. People who want characters to become jedi are doing things that aren't fun to them... but that's what most Jedi's have to go through to get there. AFK grinding basically makes it so not only is it a non-fun issue, they don't even really have to try.
This is a game and it should be fun.
Fun is as you make it. The Devs can only put in things that some people will find fun, and the best fun out there requires work as well. Fun does not mean free, and having fun does not mean you get to have fun the entire time. I had fun playing my commando, but I hated going up the Unarmed Tree the first time. Not everyone will enjoy going dancer, but not ever dancer would like the proposition of dropping everything and taking up Chef. You want Jedi, you work for Jedi.
This is the same thought that seems to think that balanced means equal. Not every thing in this game should be available to everyone in equal portions. A Commando should not be able to heal (which they argue for all the time), an Artisan should not be able to kill things, and trying to become a jedi should be full of sacrafice and work... just like in the books and movies. If they take that away, then the whole being of a Jedi, especially in a period where it's dangerous to be one, is moot. Then it's become nothing special, and nothing different.
Now I am not saying the AFKers are not causing problems for people as it is very obvious it is a problem.
What needs to be done is changes to the dancer class that makes it more beneficial to watch an active rather than an AFK dancer.
Someone doing AFK dancing shouldn't be allowed in a group, in my opinion. Unless it's under a special circumstance, such as an unmanned cantaina or player-owned cantina, it should be only active players allowed in the Cantinas in public cities. Go in Coronet, see the 40+ entertainers that have 3-5 groups going because some leader has gone AFK... or the one group that is dancing and playing away but does not have room for a player because 18 spots are taken by AFK entertainers.
That makes the active dancers, in a group, that are able to get much better healing going.
Not sure how good mind buffs are but they should be comparable to doctor buffs. I see people looking for doctor buffs and paying for them, if mind buffs are as good, I would think people would seek them out. (Sorry only novice Dancer right now)
No, they shouldn't be, but hear me out for this. They should be better than spices, and should buff all three stats. That's what irks me about our buffs. But a doctor buff has a lot more requirements. Not just the work getting up the tree... because grinding Medical supplies sucks as much dancing. I've done both. And they have a resource requirement, and the resources are expensive. Especially collecting enough Avian Meat to make a quality buff at a high rate. 60cpu is not that rare. Then all of the other components on top of that (special planet resoruces, or specific types) make for a very expensive commodity. There's a reason buffs cost 1-2k a stat.
Dancer buffs should not be as effective, unless there is something put there that demands resoruces like that. We're just dancing, after all. Though there should be more variety, and a counter to show how long you have to go would be nice. They only take time, and I firmly believe a dancer should be paid for that.
Make mind buffs only work in a player city may be a way to help push people to seek out dancers in a player cities, but the lack of starports in player cities will keep those from just passing through from going to a player city.
Give dancers the ability to end spice withdrawal. This would require a command and the dancer would have to target a player.
Give dancers the ability to perform special types of dances once an hour. The following dance types could be included:
BattleDance – Adds a fixed amount of bonus to damage to the dancers target. Last for 60 minutes on the player.
Dance of Concentration – No crafting can have a critical failure for 15 minutes. Works on single target.
Dance of Healing – Increases the healing potential of the dancers target for 60 minutes. Maybe a medic can heal for higher damage than the stimpack provides.
I am sure others can be added and these could be refined.
To make dancers feel they can be more of a partin the GCW:
The dance of discovery – This dance only works in player cantinas of a declared faction. The targeted player is forced to Overt by the dance if they are the opposite faction of the dancer. Again this can be used once an hour.
The dance of leadership – This dance allows the target to be able to have one extra faction pet out for 60 minutes.
This is a bard type function, and has been shot down by both players and the devs in the past. We're entertainers... and most people entertain between battles... not during them.
Well I hope these ideas can stimulate people in how to make dancing more fun and also make it more beneficial to watch an active dancer rather than an AFK one.
Kerevic wrote:
Give dancers the ability to end spice withdrawal. This would require a command and the dancer would have to target a player.
The "bardlike" dances don't really trip my trigger.
However, ending spice withdrawal strikes me as a good idea. It's like we're rehab for recovering spice addicts. Those who use spice out in the field would be happy to have a Dancer out there to help them come down a bit more easily. Have it be related to the Healing mods. Might as well make it Fatigue Heal since that skill is useless out in camps. A Master Dancer can relieve spice withdrawal after only 10 seconds of dancing. A Novice Dancer may have to work at it for a minute. Or something like that.
As some have pointed out already, those ideas about dancers are most definately bard like features so there is zero chance of you ever seeing something like that. The exception is the spice idea.. that one isn't a bad idea and isn't bard like, tho I'm not entirely sure how it fits in with dancers, sounds more like something a doctor would do to me.
As far as AFK thing goes.. I've just about given up on it right now. The holocron/ FSCS thing has made it very unlikely the devs will do anything to stop it and I'm starting to not want to bother trying anymore. Best thing we can do at this point is just try and find a place to get away from them. Don't worry, I'll still pester the Devs about it.. I just don't think they'll ever do anything to change it.
Adding abilites will do nothing to curb AFKing. Witness how effective adding the targetted mind buff was. Zero effect on my server. More AFKers than ever.
- J
PS - I'm thinking of something similar to what has been done with surveying, but relevant to entertianers and something that would not stop the dance or music.
IE - a random pop-up saying something like "Yousubmitto the music/dance and let it guide your steps." Clicking the box would give you some unique and super-cool flourish or light display (to attract attention), and would give you a fixed duration bonus for Healing XP gained and healing performed.
Just a thought. 
N_Kita wrote:
I think giving dancers any new abilities that require them to be ATK, and provide healing xp bonuses (to dancer and watcher)would be a great idea. I don't want to see AFK dancing banished, but I have NO problem with rewarding those who are ATK.
::nods:: those ideas have been frequently brought up with the Devs. Hopefully when they have some time to spend on us we'll be able to get some things like that put in. (whatever it is tho I want it to be as non-disruptive as possible but not something you can AFK do.)