Dancer Archive

/contraversial

I've always been against entrance fees but lately I've been thinking about the whole tipping business and I'm wondering whether it might actually work.

I'll admit I have no idea whether it would be possible to code this, and I haven't thought it all through very thoroughly yet...but I'm going to throw it on to the table for the purpose of discussion.

1) Cantinas

Introduce a very modest entrance fee for coming into the cantina, which is deducted automatically as soon as you cross a certain boundary. Once inside the patrons would be under no obligation to tip, though of course they could if they wanted to.

Entertainers would be paid as they leave according to how long they've spent dancing there. Since the entertainers themselves would have to pay to enter, their pay for, say, the first fifteen minutes of dancing would need to cover the entrance fee. Thereafter any money they make would be earnings. The entertainers would be paid regardless of who came into the cantina to keep things simple, but it would be nice if different cantinas/taverns paid different rates -- perhaps as a means of encouraging entertainers to more remote places.

2) Hotels

Charge a higher price for entrance to the entertainment area of a hotel. Pay the entertainers there a much higher rate, but make it so that you cannot gain music/dancing and healing in a hotel.

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I am thinking that this might have several benefits. First and foremost, it means that entertainers are not reliant on tips. We no longer have to think badly of our fellow players for not tipping, and they no longer have to remember to tip or feel uncomfortable when they don't know how much or when. I'm sure that many players would grumble about cantina charges at first, but so long as the charge was fitting, it would soon become a fact of life. [I don't see many people complaining about the necessary evil of having to pay bank surcharges...it's just one of those things that we accept we have to pay. Besides, let's face it...we aren't exactly popular at the moment anyway].

I think getting official payment would make many entertainers feel better about their profession. So much nicer than having to rely on hand outs.

I've never had a problem getting tips, and it's certainly true that the more attention that you pay a customer the more they tip. It could be argued that removing the incentive to get tips would make dancers less sociable. But personally I feel pretty guilty chatting to someone knowing that the only reason I'm doing it is to fleece some credits. I'd much rather chat just because I want to get to know someone, or just because I'm friendly and enjoy the banter. I think most sociable dancers are friendly and welcoming *anyway* and many would, perhaps, feel more relaxed in a 'tipless' environment.

Also, it would give entertainers a reason to be in the cantina when no one is around...and so make them available when people *do* come in. [I once went to dance in one of the more remote places for a change. When all the customers left, I danced for a bit then felt silly. I'm a Master dancer, there's really not much point in my dancing all by myself. After a short while I moved on, which was a shame because I dare say that people might have been glad of a dancer there later. If I'd been being paid for my time there, I probably would have stayed as dancing for no one wouldn't have seemed quite so pointless].

I make the suggestion about the hotel because I think it would be nice to have the optional prestige of dancing somewhere more up-market once you attain Master. Making the hotel an ideal place for Masters to 'hang out' would mean that more of them get to know each other, which could potentially lead to more organised performances or more regular dance/band troupes.

I think it's important that entertainers are 'allowed' to mix with their fellows, so Masters could of course dance in the cantinas (but would get paid the lower cantina rates) and non-Masters could dance in the hotel (and would get good wages but no xp).

This sort of set up seems to me to be much more realistic than what we have at the moment. As someone pointed out in another thread - in real life, you usually have to pay to see entertainers perform. And if the entertainer is more accomplished you usually have to pay more.

Game-wise, this would give people a choice of popping to the 'cheap-and-cheerful' cantina or paying higher prices and getting faster heals and possibly a mind buff. I'm sure the roleplayers could make quite a bit of this set up too.

I appreciate that player cantinas/hotels etc could be set up this way, but thats a long way off for most of us.

Anyway, just a thought...

"2) Hotels

Charge a higher price for entrance to the entertainment area of a hotel. Pay the entertainers there a much higher rate, but make it so that you cannot gain music/dancing and healing in a hotel.

*********************"

Aaargh!!

I meant to put "music/dancing and healing XP"

<goes off to look for all the other typo's and errors in her post....>

Personally, I still maintain that the best solution is to provide significant benefits to player run cantinas which already have the capability of charging a cover.

- J

I really like how so many people are thinking of ideas to improve things. And this is the best place to hash those ideas over, probing for flaws or weak spots before they ever get to the Devs.

In this case, two things:

1) Cantinas need to remain a social focus of this game, even public cantinas. If you start charging admission, you're hurting business -- especially those players who are just starting out or are poor (like entertainers!) Private cantinas will charge admission fees, but in their case they are also offering a higher quality of service and entertainment for the fee-- something public cantinas can never do.

2) Personally, I don't care for the idea of guaranteeing income to players who aren't even at their keyboards. All the split would do is to encourage the LAMERs to leave their macros running all night long so they could make additional credits. I'd much rather the money went to those who work for it, and the /tip system may not be perfect but it's as good as we have at the moment.

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Sinda wrote:

I really like how so many people are thinking of ideas to improve things. And this is the best place to hash those ideas over, probing for flaws or weak spots before they ever get to the Devs.

In this case, two things:

1) Cantinas need to remain a social focus of this game, even public cantinas. If you start charging admission, you're hurting business -- especially those players who are just starting out or are poor (like entertainers!) Private cantinas will charge admission fees, but in their case they are also offering a higher quality of service and entertainment for the fee-- something public cantinas can never do.

2) Personally, I don't care for the idea of guaranteeing income to players who aren't even at their keyboards. All the split would do is to encourage the LAMERs to leave their macros running all night long so they could make additional credits. I'd much rather the money went to those who work for it, and the /tip system may not be perfect but it's as good as we have at the moment.

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I agree on both counts.

To address the first point, I think the cantina entrance fee would need to be very reasonable, precisely so that almost everyone would be able to afford it without thinking twice. In conjunction with that, I think some improvements would need to be made to cantinas to make them more desirable places to go be. Some suggestions have already been put forward, such as food and drink vendors inside, and more gambling machines.

From what I know of the combat profession players, I think that given the choice of:

a) Running to some place out of town where you have to pay to get in and be healed

or

b) Using a free cantina conveniently situated in the middle of town

most of them are likely to opt for b) most of the time, no matter how great the player-run cantina is. But if the public cantina charged a little, it might make the private cantina seem like a more attractive option.

Since the entertainers would be paid a set rate per hour regardless of cantina takings, it could be argued that there is no point in charging people at the door. That's probably true I guess. But I rather like the 'realism' of having to pay to get in. And I'd like to think that, having paid, people would try to get the most out of being there and might stay a little longer or do more there. I wouldn't like it to interfere with the social interaction of friends meeting up or people coming in to find someone to trade with or train them and I agree that's a potential problem.

Mind you, I rather like the idea of putting off the idiots who just want to come into the cantina to annoy everyone with their enormous pets, or the people who think its' ok to stand on top of the dancers yelling their heads off to sell something that nobody really wants .

Having to pay for healing in all cantinas and hotels might also make us a little more appreciated on hunts...mind healing would be free in a camp.

As for point 2). I totally, totally agree. I'm very much against AFKMing. I think that problem would have to be corrected before things like entrance fees could be considered.

The main reason I brought this up btw, is because I'm really fed up of all the moaning about tipping (from both sides of the argument). And I think it would be nice if something in game demonstrated that we're to be respected.

I've always done very nicely as far as tips go and I have no complaints about my income, but I hate being reliant on other people, and I know it makes a lot of cantina customers uneasy. It makes for a lot of bad feelings all round. I think giving tips should always have been what the name suggests...an optional present to reward someone special, and not as a morally-obligatory payment. I don't like feeling embarrassed when people tip me ridiculously huge amounts and I don't like knowing that some players feel embarrassed and uncomfortable when they can't afford to tip much.

Plus if we got paid, the devs could get rid of our useless mission terminals