Dancer Archive
Thread: A tip for those dancers in the dumps about this profession
I see it being said on these boards all the time but it is true I am on my way to Novice BH and after getting owned by aggro mobs when I go to the Cantina I want to enjoy myself, not sit and watch a AFK dancer repeat the same move over and over, I mean you can't expect to be tiped for that. Talk to use impress us look nice(no underwear). Because belive me when I see good dancers I tip well.
Viennt Striffe
Marksman 2/4/4/4
Scout 4/3/4/3
Eclipse
"Talk to use impress us look nice(no underwear). Because belive me when I see good dancers I tip well."
I realise that it might seem that a nice dress and a sunny disposition are important, butit'smuch moreimportant that you tip us for the actual quality of the service we provide, rather than the optional extras we choose to give. You come to the cantina to heal, and if I'm a master dancer, dressed in my undies (because I lost all my clothes due to a bug - trust me it happens)and if I refuse to chat with you because I'm roleplaying (real dancers don't usually talk while they're performing), you're wasting a lot of time if you pass over me in favour of /watchingthe well-dressed and chatty newbie who heals you about 4 times slower than I do. Not only that, but if you do/watch me and thenrefuse (because of my silence or my clothing choices) to tip meforthe service I've provided,you're not only stealing heals, you'reinsultingthedancingprofession too.
I spent weeks learning my profession (I'm a Master Dancer), and I do my job (healing mind wounds) very well . If you're basing your tip amount on my dress and mydemeanour rather than onmy skill, you're basically saying to methat I may as well not have bothered to learn my profession. You're alsosaying to newbiesthatthey may as well run scouting missions until they get enough for a nice dress, and thenthat you'll pay them to talk with you rather than paying them to get better at their job.
If you tip based on the criteria you've suggested, there will soon be only slow-healingnewbies and AFK dancers in the cantinas. Surely no one wants that. It is important to reward a dancer'sskill if you want to play the game efficiently. I'm not telling you not to reward a good attitude or a nice set of dancing clothes, but if a dancers' skill comes after those attributes when you're deciding what tip to give, then you're doing everyone a disservice.
I do think Beery has a valid point here and I do understand the patrons who base their tips on interaction rather than character skill.
The problem here I feel is the game mechanics and not the players. A major issue seems to be the balance between Novice Entertainer and Master Dancer/Musician and the relative irrelevance of skills gained in the entertainer professions.
Somebody who just puts 20 skill points into dancing can make most patrons as happy as a master dancer/musician who might have trained endless hours and spent almost all her/his skill points exclusively on those skills.
Most patrons won't notice if they heal faster or not. I don't even know if there is a difference if all the performers are grouped in one band, which is the normal case.
Well, I think the entertainer classes are well balanced at newbie level. If you interact nicely with people, as a newbie you do quite well. However, there is something missing at higher levels. I don't know how to fully solve this. Of course getting rid of the AFK macro problem is obvious, but that alone won't be enough. A master simply needs an ability to make a patron more happy and more willing to spend credits. An AFK macroer or a novice entertainer shouldn't be able to effectively compete for tips against a master who is doing her/his job properly.
Maybe a relatively simple approach would be to make a character who is watching a master performer respond in a certain way a bit similar to how characters in Everquest respond to alcohol. I think a better performer is meant to create a stronger sensation of happiness in the audience. However this state of happiness of the character seems not to be visible to the player behind the keyboard and thus won't lead to a higher tip as it goes unnoticed. It is really hard to notice if your wounds are healed a bit faster or not as this is simply too abstract and the little mind buffs and such also seem to be overlooked most often. But if the character would communicate her/his level of happiness in some direct way, such as via emotes, then in a way the player would be able to feel the difference between a skilled and an unskilled performance too :-)
Well, just some thoughts :-) I hope I don't bore anybody, but I feel there is still a lot work to be done on the entertainer classes :-)
In comparison to other classes I feel there is not. Sure, work needs to be done, but I love entertaining and think the professions of musician and dancer are brilliantly implemented and a lot of fun.
Anshe_ wrote:
(out of character)
Well, just some thoughts :-) I hope I don't bore anybody, but I feel there is still a lot work to be done on the entertainer classes :-)
For the love of GOD people. Listen to him.
"when I go to the Cantina I want to enjoy myself, not sit and watch a AFK dancer repeat the same move over and over, I mean you can't expect to be tiped for that. Talk to use impress us look nice(no underwear). Because belive me when I see good dancers I tip well."
ANYONE can heal BF/Mind wounds. Yes, even noobs. Get the picture, they will watch an AFK noob instead of a rude master. No one really cares too much if the person is a master and they are an ass. Read the reasons why people come into the cantina. All masters dance the same and heal the same, so it has nothing to do with skill.
This responsesounds completely selfish to me. Its hard to start out as a dancer and this kind of attitude just hurts the new dancers. Watch and tip the masters instead of the noobs.... because they need the xp... right?
You are in the wrong profession. Being a dancer is social, the actual dancing is just a reason for them to come in and talk.
I completely agree that everyone should be free to play (and roleplay) their characters as they want to [AFKMing, tip-spamming etc being exceptions of course]. I also agree that in reality, professional dancers don't chat with their audience.
But you can't blame a customer for tipping more to a dancer who chats to them, or who wears something nice..because that's who they notice. It's just human nature. Especially when the cantina is busy, they're much more likely to be 'drawn' to someone who stands out somehow. And if they're 'prompted' to watch you, then it's you that they'll tip.
I don't think we should under-estimate how important entertainer-customer interaction is for some players. I welcomed a Novice scout to my local cantina recently. He sent me a tell and we got chatting. He hadn't been playing long and didn't know many people, and he hated coming into the cantina because he always felt like an 'outsider'. Me saying hello to him really made his day and gave him the confidence to ask me a few questions about the game. In the event, I wouldn't let him tip me, because he didn't have much money, but he really wanted to.
When people tip, they aren't just paying for healing, they're showing their appreciation for other things...which includes making them feel better in RL or helping them out in the game. This might not be what tips are [i]supposed[/i] to be for, but I think we have to accept that that's why people give them.
Beery wrote:
If you tip based on the criteria you've suggested, there will soon be only slow-healingnewbies and AFK dancers in the cantinas.
I'm going to have to disprove this assertion there.
I've been dancing since the game was released. I know that I receive better tips by making the customer enjoy his stay in the cantina. To ensure pleasure, I talk with the customer, dance with my pet,and change my wardrobe often (using /smokebomb 1 or /smokebomb 2). I crack jokes and laugh along with the patrons. I examine each person and ask a wounded person how he got that way.
I know that this helps me get money, and I use it. I cater to the original poster because that is the type of show he wants and I'm willing to give it. I know other dancers who are aware of this fact too.
So, do not worry about the poster's attitude resulting in only newbies and AFKers populating the cantinas. I can always be found there listening to a patron's tale of woe and offering advice and comfort.
I completely agree that everyone should be free to play (and roleplay) their characters as they want to [AFKMing, tip-spamming etc being exceptions of course].
Mirella wrote:
I completely agree that everyone should be free to play (and roleplay) their characters as they want to [AFKMing, tip-spamming etc being exceptions of course].
Grr. And I was going to address this in my original message but got distracted and sent an incomplete post (no delete either?).
Anyway, while as a player, I loathe tip-spamming. It is so annoying. However, I feel that a player has the right to RP a tip-spammer. In my book, it's the same as RPing an annoying drunk or a belligerent smuggler. You just have to treat a tip-spammer like you would treat an overjealous boyfriend or a slimy used car salesman.
As a player, I'll suggest that tip-spamming doesn't help. But as a character, I simply ignore him...sometimes I'll actually joke about him.
"Watch and tip the masters instead of the noobs.... because they need the xp... right?"
You're missing the point. Master Dancers don't need the XP, but they do heal faster than a newbie, thus they should get a bigger tip - better service =bigger tip. This is not about Master Dancers wanting all the business. It's about greater skilldeserving a greaterreward.
"So, do not worry about the poster's attitude resulting in only newbies and AFKers populating the cantinas. I can always be found there listening to a patron's tale of woe and offering advice and comfort."
Are you seriously saying that you haven't noticed that since the last major patchthe vast majority of dancers retire as soon as they get Master???
Beery wrote:
Are you seriously saying that you haven't noticed that since the last major patchthe vast majority of dancers retire as soon as they get Master???
It started long before that last major patch, Beery. I haven't officially retired, but I haven't been to public cantinas as a dancer since I made Master around mid-August. I've taken my act on the road and joined a regular band doing weekly gigs. There are a lot of reasons for the disappearance of Masters other than them quitting or just moving to combat classes. I spent 2 months, hours every day in those stinking hellholes, why would I want to go back without a good reason? Why would I want to dance alongside non-responsive bot machines when I can dance with my friends on the road?
As for roleplaying, I'm all for it. HOWEVER, if I'm roleplaying a dancer and really want to be good at it, I will be cheerful, interact, entertain, and humor my patrons. If I want to RP a grouchy or moody dancer, I will be sure to /tell patrons OOC that I'm roleplaying so they don't take it wrong. I know, I know, it's counter-intuitive to have to OOC that you're roleplaying a roleplaying game, but you can probably count the real roleplayers on the fingers and toes of one person.
Beery wrote:
"So, do not worry about the poster's attitude resulting in only newbies and AFKers populating the cantinas. I can always be found there listening to a patron's tale of woe and offering advice and comfort."
Are you seriously saying that you haven't noticed that since the last major patchthe vast majority of dancers retire as soon as they get Master???
Beery, your leaps of logic truly astound me in their discombobulating manner.
To answer your question, I am not seriously saying that I haven't noticed the vast majority of dancers retiring as soon as they get Master. I didn't even say anything remotely like it. Why are you even asking me that?
Are people leaving the profession? Yes. Is everyone leaving the profession? No. I am still in the business (though I cannot conceivably be a Master Dancer, sadly). I know lots of others in the business, a few of them are Masters. They haven't left.
Also, you display an unattractive amount of hubris by insisting that people who tip based on entertainment instead of healing are chasing away the entertainers. Some entertainers enjoy enticing tips out of patrons while others prefer to treat tips as an exchange of service. Fine, both types differ.
You clearly view your role as a healer with entertainment secondary.
I view my role as an entertainer with healing secondary.