Dancer Archive
Thread: Lets Find a Solution for Everyone
- PvP - Always need a mind buff so needsomeone to be on all the time, players can not be on all the time.
- Experience gain is slow, macro dancing is easy to do to gaindays of grind experience so you can be master.
- Hologrind - This will hopefully end soon and there will be less mindless grinders who don't want the profession.
- Chatting - AFK dancing while chatting is still fun, hard to keep an eye on character all the time.
- Buffs - People want buffs so they don't want to be dependent upon another player.
- Guilds - Guilds use buff bots for healing and buffing because it is useful in Player Cities.
Some ways to Fix afking:
- Lower experience requirements for Social Professions (Entertainer, ID, Dancer, Musician)
- Entertainer Missions - Even just increase the pay so entertainers run around to get missions for payout.
- Buffs last longer through death - ??? An eighthour buff means that you can run past prime time for awhile.
- AFK hours - There are hours specified that are okay to AFK entertain so people can still play the game.
- Get entertainers out of the cantina's and into the battlefield to assist troops.
- Reasons to go to NPC city for entertainers instead of hiding out in player cities all the time.
I just suggest instead ofbeing angry and proposing draconianideasthat you try and find the reasons why people do what they do and adapt a solution to solve it. Maybe you will have better ideas than these or take them as you own. But I have friends that Bot and it is okay, but it would be nice if we didn'tfeel we need to.
/bow3 entertainers
Well couple things.
It would probably be better to keep the ID consideration seperate from Dancer and Musician. They're a different 'beast' in regards to the AFK-botting, and have a different set of XP issues right now.
I can't agree more with Entertainer Missions, they're giving the same if not worse payout as Delivery Missions, really folks, give us a bone on these.
Reducing XP requirements and/or increasing the effectiveness of the buffs isn't much of an answer in my opinion. Two fold reason. First, it's simply faster for those afk-grinding through the profession to reach the end-goal. Second, the increased buff effectiveness only encourages folks to have their own little pet buff-bot.
I'm mixed on the idea of getting Entertainers on the field. I really do miss the old Dancer concept of having some direct combat function [EQ-Bard clone it read like].
Players Cities ... There are too many of them I fear. But not much can be done there.
Really think that there needs to be a mechanic benefit/focus reason to be ATK. It won't really solve the Personal Buff-Bot logic, but it would at least dent the Guild-use Buff-Botting.
Maeves wrote:
There seems to be a lot of frustration with people AFKing.
Obviously the BOTing is done for a reason.
- PvP - Always need a mind buff so needsomeone to be on all the time, players can not be on all the time.
- Experience gain is slow, macro dancing is easy to do to gaindays of grind experience so you can be master.
- Hologrind - This will hopefully end soon and there will be less mindless grinders who don't want the profession.
- Chatting - AFK dancing while chatting is still fun, hard to keep an eye on character all the time.
- Buffs - People want buffs so they don't want to be dependent upon another player.
- Guilds - Guilds use buff bots for healing and buffing because it is useful in Player Cities.
Some ways to Fix afking:
- Lower experience requirements for Social Professions (Entertainer, ID, Dancer, Musician)
- Entertainer Missions - Even just increase the pay so entertainers run around to get missions for payout.
- Buffs last longer through death - ??? An eighthour buff means that you can run past prime time for awhile.
- AFK hours - There are hours specified that are okay to AFK entertain so people can still play the game.
- Get entertainers out of the cantina's and into the battlefield to assist troops.
- Reasons to go to NPC city for entertainers instead of hiding out in player cities all the time.
I just suggest instead ofbeing angry and proposing draconianideasthat you try and find the reasons why people do what they do and adapt a solution to solve it. Maybe you will have better ideas than these or take them as you own. But I have friends that Bot and it is okay, but it would be nice if we didn'tfeel we need to.
/bow3 entertainers
Thank you for being interested and trying to find a solution that helps us as well. 
Reiella wrote:
Hmm.
Well couple things.
It would probably be better to keep the ID consideration seperate from Dancer and Musician. They're a different 'beast' in regards to the AFK-botting, and have a different set of XP issues right now.
I disagree , the ID is a social profession like Dancer and Music and part of the entertainer tree that allows you access to your skills. Yes, they don't have the macro problem because that isn't possible. But also the type of player attracted to these professions isn't necessarily a grinder or used to playing combat professions. I think these professions should be treated on a different system verses the standard grind for combat, just as I wish the crafters were on a different system.
I have met people in real life that play these professions and they tend to be the more social and interactive types. They don't want to solo they want to play and enjoy other people's company and personally I want more in the game to enjoy playing because I enjoy them being there. I also know people like that won't grind and leave, it's not so bad for dancer and music because you can leave your computer on but ID is kind of painful but they do appear to be fixing that to a degree. Personally I just don't see a valid reason for the grind.
Professions should be rewarded more based on the type of people they attract as well as the type of people you want to attract. Instead of combat experience grind have it be based on missions as well as group missions with other players. Have them each have to play a part so to speak even if it is as simple as follow the dance cues or music cues you receive. After doing so many of these group style missions you get a box. Make sense? Sound more fun? Call them gigs if you want and after maybe you have to go to another planet with your gig partners with appropriate rewards of course.
I can't agree more with Entertainer Missions, they're giving the same if not worse payout as Delivery Missions, really folks, give us a bone on these.
I would be happy if they just gave the original reward of about 600 to 800 creds per normal mission. Two missions in the same location would be a nice little chunk of change and reasonable. Enough that after a few missions you could go buy some clothes or get an ID and tip well.
Reducing XP requirements and/or increasing the effectiveness of the buffs isn't much of an answer in my opinion. Two fold reason. First, it's simply faster for those afk-grinding through the profession to reach the end-goal. Second, the increased buff effectiveness only encourages folks to have their own little pet buff-bot.
I'm not sure that would be true. My friends would rather use that slot for something else really. If I knew I could go to Naboo Cantina and get an 8 hour buff that lasts through death I would not have a buff bot. The only people that would probably keep it would bepeople that actually have some sort of interest in the profession.
I'm mixed on the idea of getting Entertainers on the field. I really do miss the old Dancer concept of having some direct combat function [EQ-Bard clone it read like].
It already happens in PvP. My girlfriend plays a musician and serious pvpers love her because of all the darn poison and disease that gets thrown around. Before the Havla hack a few dancers and musicians in a base could keep the entire PvP group's mind clean. So they have a place already but most don't know that. Besides going into the field should be a support role that doesn't have to be taken up but it will be taken up by those players that enjoy both the social and the combat. I don't want it forced, just and option because it is something I would like to see. I want you people out on the field with me.
Players Cities ... There are too many of them I fear. But not much can be done there.
Sure things can be done. "Never give up! Never give in!" Silly saying but a good one in some ways. You could try having special buffs in certain limited locations like the ID tent is only in a few spots. This way everyone knows where to go to get this special buff and this special buff be it acombat bonus or whatever could be one of the non-macro able buffs but not such a huge bonus that people will have to have it. Maybe give softer buffs that may seem silly like being able to harvest more from creatures or something. I know it sounds strange but these things can be done though there might be a better way.
Really think that there needs to be a mechanic benefit/focus reason to be ATK. It won't really solve the Personal Buff-Bot logic, but it would at least dent the Guild-use Buff-Botting.
I don't have anything against the guild bots. We love both our musicians that play at the keyboard and the bots. They both have their use and in a base raid it is better to have a musician at the keyboard then an afk bot. It lets you be very mobile otherwise your kind of out of luck.
Also note I expect after the revamp that there will be less need for the buffs. Right now they are the end all be all of PvP and any serious PvP guild has to have a buff bot. Hopefully after the balance that won't be needed as the only way to incap will be based of health. So be watchful over the next few months, there will be the afk types but probably going to dwindle down a bit anyway.
FarmerDozee wrote:
I personally think that eliminating the recursive macro commands can kill the AFK exp gaining. If they can't have a re-occuring macro, then after awhile they have to stop playing. I'm not sure on the specifics of it, but this seems to be a relatively simple way to take care of things.
There are however, many suggestions out there.
I don't agree with this because I don't agree with the grind exp system. People do the grind because it isn't fun to gain experience while at the keyboard.
Here is an idea. How about the ability for players to post a looking for dancer/music buff on the world maps. Maybe entertainers and such can access this via world map. So dancers can register and players can request. The idea being to bring dancers/music people together easier.
Another way though dangerous to the pvp game is to limit where buffs can be given. Such as only Theed Cantina on Naboo and so on.
Maeves wrote:
There seems to be a lot of frustration with people AFKing.
Obviously the BOTing is done for a reason.
- PvP - Always need a mind buff so needsomeone to be on all the time, players can not be on all the time.
- Experience gain is slow, macro dancing is easy to do to gaindays of grind experience so you can be master.
- Hologrind - This will hopefully end soon and there will be less mindless grinders who don't want the profession.
- Chatting - AFK dancing while chatting is still fun, hard to keep an eye on character all the time.
- Buffs - People want buffs so they don't want to be dependent upon another player.
- Guilds - Guilds use buff bots for healing and buffing because it is useful in Player Cities.
Some ways to Fix afking:
- Lower experience requirements for Social Professions (Entertainer, ID, Dancer, Musician)
- Entertainer Missions - Even just increase the pay so entertainers run around to get missions for payout.
- Buffs last longer through death - ??? An eighthour buff means that you can run past prime time for awhile.
- AFK hours - There are hours specified that are okay to AFK entertain so people can still play the game.
- Get entertainers out of the cantina's and into the battlefield to assist troops.
- Reasons to go to NPC city for entertainers instead of hiding out in player cities all the time.
I just suggest instead ofbeing angry and proposing draconianideasthat you try and find the reasons why people do what they do and adapt a solution to solve it. Maybe you will have better ideas than these or take them as you own. But I have friends that Bot and it is okay, but it would be nice if we didn'tfeel we need to.
/bow3 entertainers
YOU ARE SO RIGHT........................... IF YOU WERE ON CORBANTIST 
On my galaxy there is always a ATK buffing, on Bria I always see a ATK buffing.. You have no excuse to "not find anyone to buff you" you just want a free mind buff. You already probably make 9000 off Gurk missions or 20k doing Janta missions on Datoonie. Is 6k-10k that much for a mind buff?
Drygo wrote:While I am honored that you think my post is Corre forum worthy, please do not use me as a tool in your sick and twisted game for world domination.
it's ok, I think she's been using pretty much everyone...
Maeves wrote:
I'm not sure that would be true. My friends would rather use that slot for something else really. If I knew I could go to Naboo Cantina and get an 8 hour buff that lasts through death I would not have a buff bot. The only people that would probably keep it would bepeople that actually have some sort of interest in the profession.
I don't think this is true. The reality is, everytime something gets better or has a benefit, everybody has to have it. This 8 hour buff would be the new "must have" in the minds of people. And, if they wandered around maybe twice and couldn't find a dancer or musician to buff them, then the buffbots would then simply take a different form. That is, they would invade the Naboo Cantinas, and simply buff bot there. No problems have been solved here. All it does is make a better benefit and put us in the exact same situation. The only way to stop the buffbot is to make it impossible. Buffing must be made an ATK only type of activity, otherwise it will not end. Buffbots will only take a different form and a different venue.
It already happens in PvP. My girlfriend plays a musician and serious pvpers love her because of all the darn poison and disease that gets thrown around. Before the Havla hack a few dancers and musicians in a base could keep the entire PvP group's mind clean. So they have a place already but most don't know that. Besides going into the field should be a support role that doesn't have to be taken up but it will be taken up by those players that enjoy both the social and the combat. I don't want it forced, just and option because it is something I would like to see. I want you people out on the field with me.
I completely agree with you about this. Even back in the old days (last July) before we had all of the massive problems we have now, I was an advocate of Battle Fatigue healing out in the field, for example. Despite what some people believe, I do not, by any stretch, think the Cantinas are going to become empty should something like this happen. The reality is that Cantinas will always be a place that aspiring dancers and musicians have to go to because that is where you get the most experience, in a group. I also think that a lot of hunting parties will still have to go to the Cantinas pre and post hunt. I don't think we should just be able to dance anywhere, like in the street with a droid like the docs do. However, I do believe that Battle Fatigue healing should happen out in camps. Not only would it make us more useful out there, but it will add more reasons for camps (and Scouts and Rangers) to exist. This benefits everyone without having a negligible impact on the Cantina.
As much as I love dancing, I absolutely had to pick up a combat profession as well so that I could go out and see the world. Most of the hunting groups that I go with end up being thrilled that I'm out there, and it often has nothing to do with me being a TKM. It has to do with the fact, that I'm there to heal their battle fatigue and mind wounds when everyone dies. Or, we can set up camp and I can re mindbuff people after they run out but the doc buffs are going strong. I always try to tell people when they complain about not finding people to mindbuff them, that they really need to take the time to get to know those dancers and musicians that they find in the Cantinas. There are many of us that would be absolutely thrilled to be invited along on a group hunt, but people simply never think to do so. I remember before I became and uber elite PvE TKM'er that I would ride around on my swoop bike looking for people in camps and offering my services because I very much wanted to be a part of not only the group interaction, but the hunt. And, there are many others that feel the same way. But, people just don't think to ask us to tag along. But, believe me, I want to be out in the field with you just as much as you want me to be. You are smart enough to know that we are absolutely valuable out there. It's too bad that others haven't figured that out yet and would rather rely on the bots rather than making friends of their entertainers and inviting them along.
I don't have anything against the guild bots. We love both our musicians that play at the keyboard and the bots. They both have their use and in a base raid it is better to have a musician at the keyboard then an afk bot. It lets you be very mobile otherwise your kind of out of luck.
True in that Live people are almost always better. Heck, people are surprised at how quick and effective I am after they've gotten used to having to use a buff bot. But, unlike you, I have a lot against buffbots, guild or otherwise. In fact, a very good friend of mine, after I left my other guild, wanted me to join his. His guild happens to share a city with another guild. While his guild doesn't have any buffbots, the other guild does, and they are always in the City's Cantina. As much as I didn't want to, I said, thanks but no thanks. There's no way I will be devalued by living in a city that has buffbots. What has to be done, rather, is encourage live entertainers to exist. Despite the fact that you seem to be ok with buffbots, I will give you this. You seem to have the right attitude. I think that if more people thought the way you did and actually encouraged entertainers and showed their appreciation instead of mouthing off and expecting us to act like buffbots, things would be a whole lot better. As I said above. Encourage and support entertainers, make friends with them, invite them into your guild. Man does not live by bread alone. Similarly, a PvP cannot live on combat players alone. You need the crafters, and you need the entertainers. Support them, and heavily recruit a group of say, 5-10 real live entertainers into your guild so that you won't have to worry too much about not having someone to buff you. If you have a core group of entertainers in your city and/or guild, you will almost never be hurting for mind buffs.
Most people don't realize this. Instead, they opt for buffbots. But, I guarantee, a diverse city with all types of players, including the lifebloods of any guild on SWG--crafters, entertainers, and docs, will be a *strong* guild that will never leave you wanting or needing a bot of any sort. Be a PvP guild if you want, but make sure you have diversity in that guild and you will be strong. I am an entertainer at heart, but I also enjoy PvP and the hunt. Believe me, if I could find a guild that has bases and wants to PvP, and has a core group of 10 entertainers, I'd be in heaven.
Also note I expect after the revamp that there will be less need for the buffs. Right now they are the end all be all of PvP and any serious PvP guild has to have a buff bot. Hopefully after the balance that won't be needed as the only way to incap will be based of health. So be watchful over the next few months, there will be the afk types but probably going to dwindle down a bit anyway.
Well, again, I have to disagree with you somewhat here. People think they need buffs, but they don't. I understand that as things stand right now, so many guilds have bots that you'd be at a serious disadvantage if you didn't have one yourself. However, if SOE smartened up and made buffing an ATK only activity, then everyone would be on an even playing field because it would be just as hard for you to find a buff as it would be for the other guild. People would have to find new methods of getting that mind buff. And, the best method, really, is getting to know entertainers and making them full fledged important, respected, supported, and needed members of your guild. Then and only then will you see entertainers getting the respect that they deserve because entertainers will only flock to those guilds who treat them well and don't want to treat them as if they are buffbots. And, like I said, making buffing ATK only puts *everyone* on an even playing field once again. You may not have the mindbuff this raid, but next raid, the other guild won't have it. Luck of the draw, supply and demand, and availability, just like with any other profession. And, I truly believe that if buffing were ATK only, dancers and musicians would gain newfound respect and be more immersed with guilds that don't focus on entertaining only.
A lot of entertainers like the entertainer only guilds, and yes, they can be quite fun. But, that's not what I want. I want to be part of a diverse guild that has it all--PvP, crafters, and entertainers. That's what is the most enjoyable to me. When we're respected and heavily recruited and valued, you will find that you are no longer having to "go without." We will be there for you.
Panthu wrote:*cuts and pastes big green post into the corre forum.... waits for hate mail over length and color*
*yells at panthu for making another long post*
Pappi wrote:
Panthu wrote:
*cuts and pastes big green post into the corre forum.... waits for hate mail over length and color*
*yells at panthu for making another long post*
mwahaha *thinks her evil plan of corre forum domination is almost complete*