Dancer Archive
Thread: New Guild Buffbot
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DanceRulez
Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:58 pm
#1
Last night ended up being a little hard on me. After having a great time jamming with my newfound entertainer friends on Bria, I went home to Flurry, only to see discussion in guild chat about a new dancer buffbot. At first I tried to ignore it even as some were talking about how cool it was going to be to have a buffbot, but as talk shifted to where to put it and the suggestion came up to put it in the cantina, I couldn't hold back anymore. I burst into guild chat saying that as a dancer I oppose any buffbots because of the damage they've done to our profession, and as the owner of the cantina I oppose any attempt to set such a bot up in my cantina. At the same time I had to admit that I was the only active entertainer in the guild and that I couldn't be around our guild city all the time (I think the only other ents in our guild are either alts that are only occasionally brought up as needed or players that are rarely if ever around or even on). I realized it was pretty much me against the guild so I ended up backing down enough to say that if they feel they must have one, to not put it in my cantina, but to put it in the automated med buffing center (yes, we have a docbot too, and no I did not support that one either). The thing is our guild city is a reb city on Lok. We are kind of isolated, and the only other large cities are imp cities (with no active ents in them that I know of either). After that it seemed that everyone in guild chat respected my request and agreed to leave the buffbots to the one building. The owner of the new bot even offered to include message to see me if available. It was at least a conciliatory gesture. I did have to deal with the "How do buffbots hurt you if all it costs you is time?" question, but after carefully explaining the problem in a series of tells, I think my guildmate had a better understanding of what the problem was and why I was upset. He seemed to be more supportive of my point of view after that. I also got a couple more private tells from other guild members that were supportive so that made me feel a little better. Still I was a little sad for the rest of the night about the whole thing. I was kind of curious whether anyone has had to deal with a similar situation and what you did to resolve it.
Reachwind
Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:47 pm
#2
Learn a combat profession or a craft 'cause entertainer is being driven from the game as an accepted player profession.
I am holding on to my dancer skills though just in case... Eventually someone has got to come through with a fix. At least one of the devs will eventually acknowledge the problem.
picklesSW
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:05 pm
#3
This is the second thread like this that I've read this month.
Ya know, it's one thing to be forced to accept buffbots slowly eroding our profession away. It's far more personal when your own guild turns around and puts one up, even despite your obvious protests.
We can stand around and blame the devs all we want, but it's just as much the fault of our peers. Every person who erects a bot, every person who uses one, every guild that supports bots in their home town for the purpose of convienence at the expense of someone else's playstyle...these people are just as guilty as the devs in what has been happening, and they should not be excused on the simple basis of "if it's in the game, I should use it".
You have your own choices to make, and I do not envy you those choices. I know what I would do in your place, without hesitation. A group that places their own convenience above the well being of another does not deserve my service, or friendship.
Should things go downhill for you, know that you have a home to go to on Bria.
Ya know, it's one thing to be forced to accept buffbots slowly eroding our profession away. It's far more personal when your own guild turns around and puts one up, even despite your obvious protests.
We can stand around and blame the devs all we want, but it's just as much the fault of our peers. Every person who erects a bot, every person who uses one, every guild that supports bots in their home town for the purpose of convienence at the expense of someone else's playstyle...these people are just as guilty as the devs in what has been happening, and they should not be excused on the simple basis of "if it's in the game, I should use it".
You have your own choices to make, and I do not envy you those choices. I know what I would do in your place, without hesitation. A group that places their own convenience above the well being of another does not deserve my service, or friendship.
Should things go downhill for you, know that you have a home to go to on Bria.
Message Edited by picklesSW on 06-24-2004 06:07 PM
Lipsypale
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:17 pm
#4
You know, it is an odd thing. These buffbots are newish to me, and I can already see that they are a grave problem, even in the nicest of guilds. Not only do they suck up buff business from live people, but their effect is more insidious as well. In the past few days, I have been dancing in some Player Cantinas on Naboo, and the folks I have met are mostly quite nice, decent people...but they are used to dealing with bots and they almost never interact with an entertainer, live or otherwise. They pop in, heal up and run out...makes me feel like a wiggling gas station. And because they are socialized by dealing with buffbots, they don't tip either. This is a seriously bad thing, much worse than the hologrind ever was. I am sure this has all been said before, but it is new to me and more than a bit disturbing.
I fear that I agree with Javier on this one. I know what I would do.
Midge
Entertainers Anonymous
Doriana
Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:05 pm
#5
I had a similar situation in my city and cantina, though it was the bot that wanted to set up and advertise that he (yes, HE.. but of course female avatars make more money after all) was buffing 24-7 in my cantina.
I said no. No way. You try it and you'll be banned, no questions no warnings.
It worked to the extent that I have no bot in my cantina -- he set up in Dant Mining and I have to compete with him there. I also have no bot in my guild, now, though, either.
I wish I could suggest something more to help you.. but I really can't stick my nose in SLC business. I've never really visited or even spent much time on Lok though I've never had a problem with any SL members and have a few guilded friends. You can always call on me if you need "live" help with something, though, even if I can't feel right complaining to Cess on your behalf or something
I can just say that I sympathize with you and wish I could do more.
I said no. No way. You try it and you'll be banned, no questions no warnings.
It worked to the extent that I have no bot in my cantina -- he set up in Dant Mining and I have to compete with him there. I also have no bot in my guild, now, though, either.
I wish I could suggest something more to help you.. but I really can't stick my nose in SLC business. I've never really visited or even spent much time on Lok though I've never had a problem with any SL members and have a few guilded friends. You can always call on me if you need "live" help with something, though, even if I can't feel right complaining to Cess on your behalf or something
I can just say that I sympathize with you and wish I could do more.
ArgentWulf
Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:16 pm
#6
Geez Shi.
We had a similar problem in TF but thru the intervention of fellow member an amicable solution was found, in fact I don't think the bot is even around anymore, but then we do have a larger Ent group. Like Javy said you always have a home with us here. . . . still, thats YOUR home there. I wish I had a magic answer for you.
heathgt350
Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:40 pm
#7
I'd like to see dancers and musicians giving me a reason to tip them.I'd like to actually be entertained while watching them.
I remember in the early days groups of dancers would form dance groups and bands. If I came into a cantina and saw something like that going on, I'd be prepared to tip alot because I'm being entertained. If I walk into a cantina and theres dancers there spamming "Don't forget to tip and heal us!" But they don't make an effort to interact with me, then I most likely won't tip. I'll always tip for buffs however.
You guys say that Devsor your peers are causing the problem with dancers, I say Dancers themselves are part of the problem, in that there aren't enough of you around. The only reasonentertainerbotscame into existance was because someone got sick of trying to find a master dancer/musician so they bought another account and turned it into a bot.
I've never walked into a cantina and had a non AFK dancer offering me their services. No one eversays "Hey, are you looking for a mind buff?". The reason why doctors make alot of money is because they are constantly offering their services. Dancers need to do the same. I have a master dancer onShadowfire and I have no problem at all making money, people are always in the cantina looking for buffs. Most of their calls go un-answered so they have to turn to buff bots.
picklesSW
Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:57 pm
#8
"You guys say that Devsor your peers are causing the problem with dancers, I say Dancers themselves are part of the problem, in that there aren't enough of you around. The only reasonentertainerbotscame into existance was because someone got sick of trying to find a master dancer/musician so they bought another account and turned it into a bot. "
From our viewpoint, the buffbots were a reaction to the lack of entertainers, which was a direct reaction to the AFKers who destroyed our social gameplay and chased a lot of the entertainers away. Buffbots are only making it worse, not better. Is that what you want to see?
Drygo
Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:11 pm
#9
To begin with, I'll say it yet again on another thread...
The reason there are few entertainers buffing is because we were driven out of the Cantinas because the hologrind and all of the afk spam dancing made it miserable to be there. If you are looking for someone to blame over the lack of buffers, you need to look at the people who made afk spam dancers and musicians. They caused this, not us. I'm hoping that when the hologrind is over, more of us are going to find the Cantinas more pleasant again, and we'll be back there, and there'll be more of us to buff you. Unfortunately, now, with the plethora of buffbots, people have gotten used to them and are making our profession unviable economically. The end of the hologrind will help, but nothing is going to get it back to the way it was until the buffbots are gone. The more buffbots there are, the less business we have, and the more masters leave. Then more buffbots come in, and on and on and on. I'll repeat, the entertainers didn't cause this, the devs and our peers did. The devs by making such an asinine path to Jedi as well as fully supporting afk macro, and our peers for wanting everything immediately and driving us out.
Having said that...on to the original poster...
I have luckily not had an issue with a buffbot in my guild yet. However, I did, at one point, have an argument with some people in my guild and realized that there were some jerks in there that didn't fully understand the issues that entertainers faced, and were completely non supportive. A couple of weeks later, after thinking it through, I wrote a long letter to my guild leader saying I was leaving to find a guild that was more entertainer supportive. Since then, I have had a couple of people approach me and have conversations with me which basically told me that I was needed and supportive and not to pay attention the jerks. So, I've been rethinking...I am now back to the point where I don't know exactly what I'm going to do. I'm a sucker, so I'm probably going to end up staying, I dunno.
However, I will say this. If there was a buffbot in my guild, I would make a tiny protest and give an ultimatum, the buffbot goes or I go. I'm not telling you what you should or should not do. But, I know exactly what I would do. And, in a situation like that, there would be absolutely no hesitation on my part.
Kreistor
Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:03 am
#10
Ouch Shi'ann. You pretty much described my situation 2 weeks ago to a tee.
I logged in to find a Dancer / Musician on stage in my cantina. It took me no time at all to realize that she was a buffbot, fully supported by my guild.
I of course immediately raised my point, since AFK bots of any kind were against our Code of Conduct. That's when I got a tell saying that our council found a loop hole, saying that AFKing was only illegal in our guild if it was for the sole purpose of getting XP. She was a Master Dancer AND Musician, so she wasn't gaining XP anymore.
I immediately told the guild that that may be the 'law' for the guild, but in my cantina there was no AFKing allowed for any reason. They respected that and moved the bot.
What I felt weird about was that this bot had left the guild 2 weeks prior, and was readmitted as a master in bot professions. Apparenlt the council let her leave the guild to AFK macro for XP, then let her back in. Nice loophole.
So I posted my concerns on our board. I was rediculed and threatened, but stood my groud. I was told that the matter would be looked into. That was two weeks ago.
Yesterday a guild email was sent by one of our council members letting them all know where the buffbot could be found. In that time I received no messages, no emails, nothing about my concerns.
So, I left the guild. It was that simple.
I desparately looked for a solution to the problem, but the council wasn't interested. I wish I could pass on some wisdom on this matter, Shi'ann. All I can say is good luck and stick to what you believe is right.
Drygo
Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:19 pm
#11
Bah! I did it. I left my guild. The irony is that it had nothing to do with my previous entertainer arguments in guildchat. Well, actually, in a way it did, because those previous arguments are what started me on the road to thinking of leaving. But, the catalyst, if you will, just happened to be non-entertainer related. It had to do with looting during hunts, lol.
At any rate, it's too bad too, because in the past 2 or 3 days I had been thinking of ways to make it work in this guild. I was going to try to hold a meeting with the guild leader, mayor, and council, and had come up with a lot of what I thought were cool ideas for entertainment and events in the guild, and possibly recruit more entertainers and make it more entertainer friendly. I'm one of those people that enjoys a good mix of character types in the guild that I'm in, and wanted to enrich the whole guild experience while maintaining and expanding that diversity. That's more preferable to me than segregating myself in an entertainer's only guild. I really wanted to make this work...but...well, lots of selfishness and disrespect tonight clinched it for me. It was time for me to leave.
So, anyway...this kind of thing is always a hard decision. I don't regret, but I have a little bit of seperation anxiety. This is the only guild I've ever been in, and it's kind of sad for me to leave. But, it had to be done. There was no way around it. What happened tonight proved that to me.
Not sure what I'm going to do now. I have considered just staying unguilded for awhile. But, I'm going to miss having a guildchat with people to talk to while I'm doing something all alone lol. So, I think that eventually I will join another guild, but I have to make sure it's the right one, and I'm going to have to be a little more selective this time around.
If there's anyone on Kettemoor who has a guild that you think I'd be a good part of and would be good for me, let me know. I've actually already been invited to another one. But, like I said, I don't want to rush into things. The guild that invited me is also heavily into combat. Again, nothing wrong with that. But, I don't want to be the only entertainer. I'll have to ask what the entertainment community is like in that guild. And, I'm sure I will be getting more offers. After all, people see that you're unguilded and they want you. With a lot of guilds it's just a numbers game, and a shuttleport saving device, lol, which is why I need to be selective. I'll be the ones interviewing them and not the other way around. 
I hope I didn't derail this thread too much, but I needed to vent.
KittySung
Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:16 am
#12
Buffbots don't interfere with why most people say they have chosen dancer/musician. They're only there to provide buffs and healing. 95% of the people here claim (no offense) that they chose entertaining for the social value. People running in with a /centerofbeing macro running in in full composite never saying a word after they were notified that yes, they could get a buff, don't add anything to our social gameplay. Especially if guilds play it smart and put the bots in houses with either entree fees or a limited access list (PA only for example, I bet Rebel guild A would love if Imperial city B would have a public building with a buffbot).
On the specific problem if having one in YOUR cantina, well that's different. But buffbots in general, meh.
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