Dancer Archive
Thread: What was it like before Buffbots?
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Darlena
Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:24 am
#1
I made my Master Dancer a little over 4 months ago (totally ATK)and I'm wondering what it was itlike before the buff bots? Were tips more plentifull? Did youget stiffed on tips after buffing? (I dont ask for,or require one but It has happened a few times)Were people more friendly? I notice alot of people just seem to take the entertainers for granted. Was this behavior always here or is this new due to the buffbot phenomena?
Message Edited by Darlena on 01-27-2005 10:40 AM
ActiveNick
Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:35 am
#2
Well buffs were much weaker and did not last very long, and you could only buff one person at a time. So few people bothered with buffs back then. The moment entertainer buffs were revamped to what they are today and to allow group buffing, it took about a week for the buffbots to start appearing.
Butbefore buffbots, there was hologrinding, brought to unimagined levels due to the Christmas holocrons. Entertainer was pretty much fun until October 2003, when the first holocrons started dropping. December 2003 was the day our nightmare began. Before all that, people would only come to us for healing and socializing. Since the economy was not inflated yet, you did not see 100K+ tips. A 10K tip would essentially make your month. 
But entertainer was certainly a lot more fun.
Esharra
Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:57 am
#3
Before our buffs were made stronger, we weren't considered a pre-combat requisite..and we weren't resented for it. Once in a while a doc would ask me for a mind buff if s/he was about to buff a large group. Combatters came to the cantinas after fighting to heal up. They told wild tales about their adventures and enjoyed being entertained. As our healing mechanics do not force us into a specific behavior to compete, we were free to dance or play music however we felt like. Sure, there were a few AFK'ers and they were annoying and we made fun of them. But the playerbase, as a whole,did not become desensitized by the proliferation of unattended play until the hologrind. You could get through the front door of a cantina without dropping to 3 fps. You didn't feel like you were drowning in a sea of spam. Sure, there was always going to be some immature little beast who would be nasty to others but that is going to happen in any profession, in any game. Overall, I think we were much better off. It was fun.
Else-Whira
Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:10 am
#4
People have been down on entertainers since about July of '03. The first few weeks of the game being live dancer was one of the most taken and mastered professions. Even the now deserted cantinas could and would have groups of 10 or more live dancers with a few musicians. Then slowly people realised they could make more credits on Dathomir or Endor killing monsters than they could ever make having fun and chatting with each other while the combat players came and went from those same missions.
As for buff bots... Those came about once people learned the path to jedi involved "grinding". It didn't take long before the "grind" mentality carried over to the PvP community. The people who stayed with dancer even during the "grind" started leaving once the new people to the game started learning to treat all dancers and musicians as bots. On Tarq where I play there is always a group of people that stay with dancer or musician and don't bot. They come and go as in game goals change but there is always a good solid group of actual players.
There has never really been a golden age of tipping. The tip system never worked because frankly most players when given the choice between free or pay will choose free. Now you'll see from some of the others how they make wonderful tips and how great the income they make is... The reality is though that even those who make very good tips (like myself) do so for reasons other than actual random tips. We make friends with a few wealthy players who routinely give us tips well above what would be considered market value for the actual service we provide.
As for buff bots... Those came about once people learned the path to jedi involved "grinding". It didn't take long before the "grind" mentality carried over to the PvP community. The people who stayed with dancer even during the "grind" started leaving once the new people to the game started learning to treat all dancers and musicians as bots. On Tarq where I play there is always a group of people that stay with dancer or musician and don't bot. They come and go as in game goals change but there is always a good solid group of actual players.
There has never really been a golden age of tipping. The tip system never worked because frankly most players when given the choice between free or pay will choose free. Now you'll see from some of the others how they make wonderful tips and how great the income they make is... The reality is though that even those who make very good tips (like myself) do so for reasons other than actual random tips. We make friends with a few wealthy players who routinely give us tips well above what would be considered market value for the actual service we provide.
Ikewe
Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:17 am
#5
Darlena,
When I first became an entertainer it was a respected support role in the game. If you couldn't find an entertainer back then your option was to try to continue with what ever mind wounds and BF you had or spend the skill points to pick up novice entertainer and heal your own. So when people came into a cantina and found an entertainer they were thankful. Most would engage in at least some banter and all of them tipped. On my server they tipped well. So well that my non-entertainer friends actually considered becoming an entertainer. I usually made about 30,000 per week just healing mind wounds and BF. Before our server got it's first robot buffer, people looked for the titles by your name and sent you tells or asked in spatial if you could do a mind buff. They didn't try to tell you how to do the buff (unless you told them you were new to it and would try to buff) and were always grateful.
That slowly degraded into people expecting to always have 23/7 mind healing and buffing and thus not being the least bit appreciative of your efforts. They had no patience for you to say "yes I can buff. please let me know when you are watching" and instead began simply sending you an invite. If they got a message indicating you were in a group, they would begin shouting "INVITE TO IKE" (apparently Ikewe is too long of a name). For the longest time I wondered who they heck Ike was and why everyone wanted to be in his group. When you responded that you were actually there and would be happy to buff, it was as though you were speaking in a foreign tongue that they could not understand. They would either continue shouting until you put them on ignore or they would run out angry that they didn't get an invite.
Lately there has been some improvement. Either people actually got tired of the zombification of the cantinas and began to long for the days when they could talk with someone rather than simply grind combat or the type of people still playing has changed. More people are appreciative of live entertainers - I've recieved several tips recently from people who didn't need any healing but simply came into the cantina to get flight missions and wanted to reward an entertainer who wasn't an afk zombie. Also, more Jedi are adding live entertainers to their friends list and having us travel to them when we are available. Not only can we provide them with the mind buff in a safe place but we can also act as spies and scouts about who's in the area. But the change is slow. There are still plenty of people who, when you greet them as they enter, simply look at their weapon as they run to the vending machine for buffs. They say that they just want to get their buffs and get out. They don't want to have to socialize in order to get a buff. Although I have never once shot anyone in the head for not socializing with me while they got their buff, apparently enough entertainers have that we are now a feared agent of death.
With luck, one day entertainers will once again be considered a viable primary character skill.
cheers,
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
Utess
Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:59 am
#6
Back before the buff bots it was wonderful
We still had some people who AFKed, but it was mostly people who just AFKed overnight to get xp a little faster. Most people who did AFK played fairly regularly too. We had some very heated arguements over just that back then, which seems really silly now considering what we go through daily these days.
Entertaining was this wonderful social chat session. Everyone would talk with each other about whatever was on their minds. It was so relaxing. The combat players would come in and talk with us while they healed their BF. Spinning wild tales about their adventures out in the wilderness. We could make a living off of entertaining too, since players appreciated us then and tipped regularly. Much of the day was doing great dance/music routines with each other, and finding neat new ways to change dances mid flo.
Then the hologrind started and everything changed
The kiddies working towards Jedi came to resent us because they felt our profession was a boring hurdle to their "uberdom". And, soon the cantinas were filled with hundreds of AFK hologrinders. Not long after that they boosted our buffing ability, and soon the hologrinders realized they could make money from being afk 24/7 and the buff bots were born. They appeared slowly at first; mostly it was just tons upon tons of people afk grinding xp. But, before long, buffbots began appearing everywhere.
By this time players had forgotten what it was ever like having live entertainers in the cantinas. We had become taken for granted, and hated because they thought of us as an unneccessary requirement. A lot of the social gamers had left by this time too, leaving the majority of SWG a power gamer haven. Finally they killed the hologrind but, while it cut back the number of AFK people some, the buffbots blossomed into what they are now. And, here we stand now underappreciated and struggling to survive.
I left live myself shortly after the hologrind began. I guess I saw what was coming and sought to escape it all. I ended up on TC which was this wonderful close knit social community. I made some of my best friends there. Pappi, Joanna, Sheena, Khira, my hubby Zak, Ahsidh, and on and on. For a long time it was wonderful there still. Most people didn't care about the hologrind, and many of the TC players were the more mature sort. I rediscovered entertaining there and that was wonderful too
But, then the kiddies finally made it to TC too. Thankfully it was in short bursts whenever this blue frog stuff came along, attracting hundreds of power gamers to TC. But those short bursts have taken their toll too these days. Many of the regulars I once knew have long since left for other games, more are lost each time, and the TC that I knew has moved on as all things do.
But, I still have fun, and I'm still here
And, the day this afking goes away and the chance of things becoming what they once were returns, I will dance and sing my heart out 
Entertaining was this wonderful social chat session. Everyone would talk with each other about whatever was on their minds. It was so relaxing. The combat players would come in and talk with us while they healed their BF. Spinning wild tales about their adventures out in the wilderness. We could make a living off of entertaining too, since players appreciated us then and tipped regularly. Much of the day was doing great dance/music routines with each other, and finding neat new ways to change dances mid flo.
Then the hologrind started and everything changed
By this time players had forgotten what it was ever like having live entertainers in the cantinas. We had become taken for granted, and hated because they thought of us as an unneccessary requirement. A lot of the social gamers had left by this time too, leaving the majority of SWG a power gamer haven. Finally they killed the hologrind but, while it cut back the number of AFK people some, the buffbots blossomed into what they are now. And, here we stand now underappreciated and struggling to survive.
I left live myself shortly after the hologrind began. I guess I saw what was coming and sought to escape it all. I ended up on TC which was this wonderful close knit social community. I made some of my best friends there. Pappi, Joanna, Sheena, Khira, my hubby Zak, Ahsidh, and on and on. For a long time it was wonderful there still. Most people didn't care about the hologrind, and many of the TC players were the more mature sort. I rediscovered entertaining there and that was wonderful too
But, then the kiddies finally made it to TC too. Thankfully it was in short bursts whenever this blue frog stuff came along, attracting hundreds of power gamers to TC. But those short bursts have taken their toll too these days. Many of the regulars I once knew have long since left for other games, more are lost each time, and the TC that I knew has moved on as all things do.
But, I still have fun, and I'm still here
Message Edited by Utess on 01-27-2005 02:03 PM
DarkY0da
Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:11 pm
#7
What was it like ?
Smells were better. Colors were brighter. I had a beam of Sunshine on me where ever I went. Everyone danced and played and the flowers just sprouted up under our dancing feet.
But really...
There was almost always a full group + extras that would form up a second group. They were all ATK. Anyone went afk for more then 20-30 minutes and they got booted. AFKers went off into the backroom or the side rooms and they didn't have spam going every few seconds. And anyone that AFKed their way up was really looked down on.(which is why most people didn't do it)
We all talked in Spatial mostly. We had players hang around the cantina while they crafted. Or while they waited to form up a hunting group. Or to try and sell stuff to the players that came in. It honestly was the HUB of player interaction. If you wanted to make connections and find info you went to the cantina.
Players would come in to get healed up and often times would suddently find they had just spent an extra 30 minutes there. HAVING FUN. Players would take their first shot and trying to Roleplay a character in the Star Wars universe. And they would have fun doing it.
You would have regulars that would just come in to hang out after their daily fighting. You got to know them and they got to know you. You would get random tips in the form of loot and clothing(far more often then it happens now). People would gladly invite you to come along and do a little hunting with them. Just so you could have a break from the cantina and the split credits from missions was nice as well.
So what was it like ?
It was what a MMORPG is supposed to be like. Fun and lots of interaction with other players. Players that were there to have fun and interact. I mean why else play an MMORPG ?
Smells were better. Colors were brighter. I had a beam of Sunshine on me where ever I went. Everyone danced and played and the flowers just sprouted up under our dancing feet.
But really...
There was almost always a full group + extras that would form up a second group. They were all ATK. Anyone went afk for more then 20-30 minutes and they got booted. AFKers went off into the backroom or the side rooms and they didn't have spam going every few seconds. And anyone that AFKed their way up was really looked down on.(which is why most people didn't do it)
We all talked in Spatial mostly. We had players hang around the cantina while they crafted. Or while they waited to form up a hunting group. Or to try and sell stuff to the players that came in. It honestly was the HUB of player interaction. If you wanted to make connections and find info you went to the cantina.
Players would come in to get healed up and often times would suddently find they had just spent an extra 30 minutes there. HAVING FUN. Players would take their first shot and trying to Roleplay a character in the Star Wars universe. And they would have fun doing it.
You would have regulars that would just come in to hang out after their daily fighting. You got to know them and they got to know you. You would get random tips in the form of loot and clothing(far more often then it happens now). People would gladly invite you to come along and do a little hunting with them. Just so you could have a break from the cantina and the split credits from missions was nice as well.
So what was it like ?
It was what a MMORPG is supposed to be like. Fun and lots of interaction with other players. Players that were there to have fun and interact. I mean why else play an MMORPG ?
Geddyfan
Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:11 pm
#8
I had this image flash in my head when I saw this post.
I saw the same ATK entertainers who were in Tyrena every night, talking in group, having fun. But also, everyone was greeted who walked in, Tyrena felt like a small town, because while the entertainers all got to know each other, we all enjoyed getting to know the players who needed us as well.
There were the docs and combat medics who were there to help us, cause early on, dancing took so much action. There were the two local tailors who stopped in to have us all try on the latest set of clothing. The combats who needed healing, but also talked and relaxed in general. We even knew the few shy types who just wanted to come in and sit and get healed. No one had a problem with that!
Honestly, no game out there has the social aspect this one has, but more importantly, the fantastic community that entertainers have with each other.
I play other games, but my heart is here...
Darlena
Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:31 pm
#9
I appreciate you all for sharing
It’s interesting to see how things were, the catalysts involved with the uprise of the buffbots and AFKers. The history of the Dancer and cantina life. Gave me a melancholy feeling reading some of the stories and how things have changed. Lets hope that those good time that you spoke of return soon. Thanks again.
Vensha
MasterDancer
Eclipse
Message Edited by Darlena on 01-27-2005 03:32 PM
ahree
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:21 pm
#10
I started as a dancer day three of the game. Tyrena Cantina on Radiant Server - and the first thing I was told was how to make an afk macro to gain skill 24/7. I couldn't do it, and finally gave up stumbling around while everyone I started with glided beautifully into exotic. So it wasn't all "ATK" on all the servers, in all the towns. Yes folk came in cause they walked everywhere, and often died to get from one place to another fast (no decay penalty back then).
It was fun and I still have friends from that era who "used to be" dancers/musicians.
Did a another master dancer about a year ago, and after being asked for lap dances and other things I found just nasty, I made her into a chef/tailor. I don't know what goes on, but I've also seen some pretty ghastly mistells with dancers cybering their clientele. That's not anything I am at all interested in, for more reasons than you probably want to read.
Have now a master dancer/musician/entertainer. I perform. I write songs. I coreograph (sp) dances. It's quite fun. When I get bored with it, I put her on afk for the convenience of my guild and go get my master tk/master rifle almost jedi character and kill stuff. Yep, I'm an evil buff bot. But you know, it's my $15 per month.
KaiaClodgah
Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:17 pm
#12
sigh, this post makes me want to go home, load up SWG and dance. But I've essentially given up on going to MO or any of the places such as that to buff (Theed and Coronet boot me because I don't have enough RAM) I get so sick of hearing "Invite to Ay'la" or having a group invite shoved in my face. People are completely unappreciative of what I do and those who are semi-appreciative are pissed that I am not a musician as well to give them the "full buff"
/think I'm TKA so I can kick your ass when you start to /lick me!
But lately I've loved going to odd and random places with my darling husband, Mart'in and dancing in the wilderness. My guild loves having me as their dancer and their support is really all I need to keep this up.
Besides, if I'm lacking for tips, Mart'in is a shipwright and I can always steal his money 
Drygo
Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:02 pm
#13
I had cancelled my account for a few months because of real life time constraints. But, I was here before buffbots. And, when I came back, there were buffbots. So, I don't have a first hand account of what led to the bots. But, it is my belief that bots came into existence because the entertainer professions were afk'able from nearly start to finish. And, I have no doubt that other professions would have had the same fate if they were completely afk'able. I think you can see that from artisan surveying, and doc buffing. Basically if it can be afk'able, it will be. Some professions are just easier to afk than others. Entertainer professions are the easiest, and that's exactly why entertainer bots are the most prevalent. It's just a common pattern in MMORPG's. It's just human nature I suppose for a large group of people to care more about the endgame than about the ride. I think they're missing out...
But, to answer your question. Maybe I'm looking through rose colored glasses, but I have very fond memories of before the buffbots. Not that this is a direct result of bots (probably more the hologrind). But, the lesser populated cities were...well, populated. So many people have great stories of populated Cantinas in Bestine, Tyrena, and others. My city back then was Moenia. Dark, Foggy, gloomy. A great atmosphere. The sound of people fighting low level thugs outside, then coming in all wounded for some respite.10-20 dancers, entertainers and musicians every night. Lively crowds. Practically everyone at their keyboards. Group chats that made you lose complete track of time. Initial friendships being forged. People doing group flourishes for their novelty and because of how cool they looked and sounded.
Now...I still love dancing. But, you just don't have the same atmosphere anymore. Group chat is almost practically non existent, and even if you're in a group of 20 people, you may be the only one at the keyboard...and therefore you may be leader because there's nobody else around to do it. I remember when I first became leader before buffbots, and how proud I was that people would honor me with this task. Because, back then, a leader was respected, and the task was only given to you once you made your mark. A novice entertainer wouldn't be lead...it would most likely be the highest ranking entertainer in the group. Now it's a chore, a burden, given because you're the only one who plays at the keyboard...having to pay attention to the spam, trying to decipher through it to see the rare buff or group request. And, quite frankly it can be very lonely. Like you're the only one there in a packed Cantina. Sure, there are still times that are fun in group, but they seem to be so rare these days.
I was/am so very disappointed in what it's become. 
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