Dancer Archive
Thread: Focus: Inspiration Buffs
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Esharra
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:23 pm
#1
I realize this is a new concept and our tendency is to run screaming the opposite direction as fast as we can. I've read and made note of the negativities we've found in the Inspiration Buffs proposal on In Concept. How about we look at some of the positives now?
What I like about Inspiration Buffs...
Under the current plan (as we know it):
- They are not limited in benefit to combatters only, opening us up to a new customer base with a different playstyle (one I think has more in common with our's).
- The Crafting Success bonus is something that any crafter can use to his/her advantage, regardless of level and without the (often prohibitive) investment in skilltapes.
- They can be extended. No more will people stand around getting grumpier by the minute awaiting their buff to drop.
- They are not going to effect combat performance. We are still in the pre-combat prep department but our product can be viewed as an expendible bonus rather than a necessity. Nice to have but you can (literally) live without them. (I think this will eliminate a lot of the feeling of urgency that has spawned a lot of the bot population)
- It will require personality for me to get the patrons attention and their tips. I have a distinct advantage over the bots in this regard.
- We can provide Inspirations without spamming flourishes or otherwise deviating from our performance of choice.
- It is unlikely that anyone will ever again run up to me and /shout ESH GRP PLZ!
What I like about the possible future of Inspiration Buffs:
- If these introductory buffs are successful, a greater variety of buffs may become available. Perhaps a buff that negates wounds or BF accruement.
- The potential for applying them in a less passive way that can be activated away from the cantina, perhaps with a visual effect such as a holographic display.
So let's hear your ideas..
What do you like about the Inspiration Buff idea? And where can you imagine it leading to? Let's try to keep positive here.
Einhinder
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:34 pm
#2
I like that it fits more in with our style of play from a ro perspective it makes sense for an entertianer to inspire others
I liek that it shows the devs ahvnt forgotten us
I liek that it opens up a larger customer base to us
Eaca
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:48 pm
#3
Esharra wrote:
What I like about the possible future of Inspiration Buffs:
- If these introductory buffs are successful, a greater variety of buffs may become available. Perhaps a buff that negates wounds or BF accruement.
- The potential for applying them in a less passive way that can be activated away from the cantina, perhaps with a visual effect such as a holographic display.
So let's hear your ideas..
What do you like about the Inspiration Buff idea? And where can you imagine it leading to? Let's try to keep positive here.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with a big fat NO on a buff to reduce BF. Assuming they bump up wound accumulation to live levels it's STILL going to be a 1/4 what they currently are for our EH xp generation. If the TC5 levels of wound/BF accumulation go to live, it's going to take 40x longer. I see no need to make it even harder on ourselves to level.
Chessack
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:55 pm
#4
I like 90% of what they are doing with this. I like what we are buffing, and I like that we will be able to see what we are doing (finally). And pretty much the rest of it.
The ONLY thing I don't like is that it is automatic, and that it doesn't seem like we can even stop it, shy of /denyservice (which, IMO, is pretty extreme, because it blocks not only buffs but heals, which the dancer may or may not want to do). Picture a dancer who wants to charge for her services. She stands there not dancing and states her price. There are two guys sitting there in the cantina. One says, "I am not paying." The other says, "Here you go" and tips the named price. She starts dancing and now both guys get to watch and get buffed.
We need more control than this. When someone tries to watch us, they should have the option of "watch for healing" or "watch for buffing" (which should automatically include healing). If they pick "watch for buffing" the dancer should get a popup asking for permission to give the buff. "Esharra is trying to watch you for a buff. Do you agree? Yes/No." I have X seconds (30, 60, 90, take your pick) to click "Yes", or it defaults to "No." This allows me to choose who I buff, and thus allows me to say, "I am not clicking yes until you ante up the 2k I charge for buffing." (I would not charge for buffing like that, but many might want to.) This allows us to make a living. The way it is currently implemented does not.
And before anyone cries that "there is no way to implement this", let me answer that pre-emptively. They already have a system very like this. It's called the training system. When I am grouped with you and see you haven't learned Ithorian language yet, I click on it to train you, but you get the option of accepting or declining the training. The way they have it implemented now is equivalent to FORCING me to get trained whenever someone offers, whether I want it or not. Saying "well you could always surrender the skillbox" would not be acceptable. And neither is saying "Well you can always /deny them."
No, we need a real way to regulate to whom we give out our buffs. /stopdance and /deny are not adequate for this purpose.
I love the rest of the system. They just need some sort of a window that lets us say yes or no to giving a buff out... WE need to be in control of who gets the buff... not the patron. Otherwise there will be no way to make a living as a dancer or musician.
C
The ONLY thing I don't like is that it is automatic, and that it doesn't seem like we can even stop it, shy of /denyservice (which, IMO, is pretty extreme, because it blocks not only buffs but heals, which the dancer may or may not want to do). Picture a dancer who wants to charge for her services. She stands there not dancing and states her price. There are two guys sitting there in the cantina. One says, "I am not paying." The other says, "Here you go" and tips the named price. She starts dancing and now both guys get to watch and get buffed.
We need more control than this. When someone tries to watch us, they should have the option of "watch for healing" or "watch for buffing" (which should automatically include healing). If they pick "watch for buffing" the dancer should get a popup asking for permission to give the buff. "Esharra is trying to watch you for a buff. Do you agree? Yes/No." I have X seconds (30, 60, 90, take your pick) to click "Yes", or it defaults to "No." This allows me to choose who I buff, and thus allows me to say, "I am not clicking yes until you ante up the 2k I charge for buffing." (I would not charge for buffing like that, but many might want to.) This allows us to make a living. The way it is currently implemented does not.
And before anyone cries that "there is no way to implement this", let me answer that pre-emptively. They already have a system very like this. It's called the training system. When I am grouped with you and see you haven't learned Ithorian language yet, I click on it to train you, but you get the option of accepting or declining the training. The way they have it implemented now is equivalent to FORCING me to get trained whenever someone offers, whether I want it or not. Saying "well you could always surrender the skillbox" would not be acceptable. And neither is saying "Well you can always /deny them."
No, we need a real way to regulate to whom we give out our buffs. /stopdance and /deny are not adequate for this purpose.
I love the rest of the system. They just need some sort of a window that lets us say yes or no to giving a buff out... WE need to be in control of who gets the buff... not the patron. Otherwise there will be no way to make a living as a dancer or musician.
C
Ikewe
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:03 pm
#5
I don't see too many people (in fact I don't think I saw any but that was a lot of pages to go through) running screaming from the concept, only from the proposed implementation.
I like that they are finally starting to think outside the box about how to make entertainers more interactive with the entire playerbase. Our role as the support profession shouldn't just be about combat support. Yes the idea is that everything centers around the GCW but since that's not really the way things have played out then it makes perfect sense to expand on our utility.
I'm not certain that power grinders won't still have that sense of urgency but time will tell.
I'm hopeful they'll continue to be creative with this process as I think the possibilities are only limited by our (or their since they are doing the coding) imaginations.
I'd prefer to see crafting enhancements that have a real bonus such as experimentation bonuses (isn't the crafting success bonus actually useless since there's no failure rate?)
I'd also like to see bonuses for other "crafting" professions such as doctor, combat medic, and BE. Also, perhaps a Ranger could use some sort of bonus for tracking, or a CH for taming, etc...
This might also allow me the opportunity to make use of something I really like to do - travel to the person to provide the buff rather than have them come to me. If a crafter is in a city with a crafting bonus it would be nice if I could go to the crafter and provide a "stackable" or complimentary bonus.
Panthu
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:04 pm
#6
I like that it's a more general "feel good" kind of buff and less of the medical feeling buff that we had before. Seems more Entertainer-like.
Jeren_Sehn
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:05 pm
#7
I posted in the musician forum that one thing to consider (apart from /setp, which should remain in the buffing mechanics) is that Musician buffs and Dancer buffs should stack. Otherwise Dancers and Msicians just compete for the same audience.
Anoewyn
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:25 pm
#8
I am actually quite pleased with this concept - it couldn't have come at a better time.
The thing I like about the new "Inspiration" buff is the fact that we can include the non-combat community amongst our clientele. Before, entertainers pretty much only had the combat quadrant covered (BEs too when they went out sampling), and crafters were not really encouraged to come visit the cantina like the old days because there was nothing there we could provide. Back in the old days at launch, I remember the cantina full of crafters of all sorts who would grind up their materials as they had enjoyed our conversation and performances - whether it will inspire them to do that again, we'll see 
The other thing I really like about the non-combat community being able to benefit from these "Inspiration buffs" is that it is quite possible that with the increased cantina traffic, we have a greater exposure to the "who's who" knowledge of the server. At launch, I always prided myself on knowing a little bit about everyone and I liked that I was seen to be useful by not just the mechanics I performed, but that I was also some kind of "Information broker".
For example - a weary rifleman staggers into the cantina for a rest.
"Hey there," I say, "Have a seat, looks like you've gone a few rounds with a rancor."
"Yeah, on Lok actually. Trying to get some GDK scales for RIS, taking forever."
"Yah, they can be tough. I knowthat Kodrac has some spare GDK scales in his armorsmithing stock, so ifkimos aren't dropping the scales and you run short on time he can prolly help you out- what kind of rifle you using there?"
"T21, starting to need a repair though."
"You know, New Suntir has a great weaponsmith - some good powerups too. If ye need a hand, just drop Cyg message."
And so on and so on. It was one of the things I loved at the start, someone would come in and via a conversation, they left with more than just their BF healed. They left with contacts, a point of reference, a destination that yielded a good hunting ground. It was one of the things that made people keep on coming back - because there was a chance I knew someone who could help them out. Some of those old contacts are still around (most have left or changed prof), and I know that I never need to pay retail price on anything - mates rates are a wonderful thing.
The only thing I'm not sure about is how this will effect bots - or even decrease them. I feel that seeing as our clientele/patron base will be broadened, people may still flock to buffbots out of habit rather than actively seek a live entertainer. Again, I kinda think this issue goes back to ye olde AFK debate there.
However, the one thing I was a little confused with in Blair's blog was his discussion of the +25 skill tapes and their effects on the amount of time to administer a full 3 hr buff - I am kind of hoping somone might be able to clarify. I understand that a novice can perform for 1 minute, and the patron receives a 30min buff - this means that for a full buff, the novice would have to dance for 6minutes. I am underthe impression that even at master level, dancing for 1minute will yield the same 30minute buff, and that it is the skilltapes that actually decrease the amount of time taken to buff the patron. Do I that right?
Else-Whira
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:43 pm
#9
Positive?
They threw us a bone, at least they can say they did something for us.
As for what I really think, well if you read my post on the in concept forum you already know.
They threw us a bone, at least they can say they did something for us.
As for what I really think, well if you read my post on the in concept forum you already know.
TyfoE
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:02 pm
#10
Make a Image-Design-like Interface.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=230288 - Very quick sketchy thing.
Basically; the interface contains; (from the entertainers point-of-view, resizeable.
- an image of the performing entertainer.
- the ones listening/watching (in this case, a lot of swoops)
- a graphical view of how long time there's left to get full 3-hour buff.
- at the top-most swoop, there is a number (2000) - this is how much he has entered into a required tip field.
- the entertainer can enter an amount in the "Required Payment" field - this is the minimum amount of credits that the customer can offer (viewable by customers).
- when the red bar is filled, an ATK accept button pops up to the left of the one who's buff is finished. You have to click that to apply the buff and get your tip.
- if a customer stops listening/watching your required tip (or the tip he has offered) is divided by how big a % Red Bar he filled. You still need to press an Accept button.
This cannot be macroed. (The Entertainer Accept Button Mini-game.
)
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=230288 - Very quick sketchy thing.
Basically; the interface contains; (from the entertainers point-of-view, resizeable.
- an image of the performing entertainer.
- the ones listening/watching (in this case, a lot of swoops)
- a graphical view of how long time there's left to get full 3-hour buff.
- at the top-most swoop, there is a number (2000) - this is how much he has entered into a required tip field.
- the entertainer can enter an amount in the "Required Payment" field - this is the minimum amount of credits that the customer can offer (viewable by customers).
- when the red bar is filled, an ATK accept button pops up to the left of the one who's buff is finished. You have to click that to apply the buff and get your tip.
- if a customer stops listening/watching your required tip (or the tip he has offered) is divided by how big a % Red Bar he filled. You still need to press an Accept button.
This cannot be macroed. (The Entertainer Accept Button Mini-game.
)
Chessack
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:27 pm
#11
I don't even care at this point if it can be macroed. Let's not even go there. Let it be macroable for all I care.
One way or another though we should have to AGREE to giving the buff. Otherwise how can we ever earn even the slightest tips?
C
One way or another though we should have to AGREE to giving the buff. Otherwise how can we ever earn even the slightest tips?
C
Panthu
Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:14 pm
#12
Chessack wrote:
One way or another though we should have to AGREE to giving the buff. Otherwise how can we ever earn even the slightest tips?
Well, even on TC5 right now, people are tipping me... and I don't mean just role players. Now, money is free on TC5 so it's a little silly, but I think the point is a lot of people enjoy tipping Dancers for just chatting and being silly.
... BUT, what about the Cantina Salary? I think the Devs might be willing to turn that on during the CU with the Inspiration buffs. Would we like that? I think it might be really good for us.
Aynianu
Tue Apr 05, 2005 1:06 am
#13
More i think about this, the more i like it.
Passive buffs are deffinatly the way to go
My personal suggestion would be This:
Tie different buffs to different dances, each dance gives a different buffs (maybe some can duplicate effects, like exotics or poplocks etc.) That would have a twofold effect, 1: gives a reason to climb past novice, and 2: a Buffbot cannot switch dance on request, making live entertainers THE CHOICE dancers to watch.
Message Edited by Aynianu on 04-05-2005 01:06 AM
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