Dancer Archive
Thread: Definition of AFK?
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Aynianu
Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:49 pm
#1
Didnt know what else to tittle my little mini-rant/story 
Today i began my day like most others. I run 2 pc's so i have one character Dancing or playing music in either theed or mos eisley cantina, and my other restocking my tailor vendors. I find its a perfect compliment to one another, I chat when there is people to chat to in the cantina, and between that i restock tailor vendors, with the chatting breaking up the monotony of restocking around 200 vendor sales every day.
Well im quite the avid anti-afk player and only because my musician needs ent healing exp will i even group with afk entertainer players, but this is what i did today in mos eisley (i make a point of not grouping with afk players usually because i hope it may make them just feel that little bit that they are doing something wrong).
I joined the entertainer group, about 3 non-afk's there, Mos Eisley is spam city so i generally keep spatial off. so i can chat in group easier.
1hr into the group the leader and the only other non-afkare bothgoing afk and wants someone to take over leader. Suggesting me of course. I refuse to take leader simply because if i would be leader of a group of drones it just goes too against my sensibilities and i would end up just disbanding the group and going solo (pretty much my exact words, im not the most subtle of people). She replied that because i split my time between two characters i was no better than afk anyway and was a hypocrite.
Naturely we argued a bit, which resulted in her just going afk and giving me leader anyway 
so 5 mins later i just gave her it back and left the group (seemed fairer than disbanding them all, even if i dont agree with the way they play)
so 5 mins later i just gave her it back and left the group (seemed fairer than disbanding them all, even if i dont agree with the way they play)Anyway the result of that little argument left me feeling quite mad, and a little upset.
Am i no better than an afk entertainer? I would really like some other opinions.
EDIT: also perhaps more to the point, am i a hypocrite by keeping such high anti-afk principles while i play 2accnts at once splitting my attention between them?
Message Edited by Aynianu on 10-11-2004 04:52 PM
Knight776
Mon Oct 11, 2004 5:18 pm
#2
I guess, technically, she did have a point, but I see a huge difference. You were doing your thing on both characters and even though you're away from one to do another, you were switching between the two. This is as opposed to setting your character on auto-pilot and wandering around the house/taking a nap/going shopping/etc.
I don't have a problem with what you were doing myself....I would probably do the same thing in your position. At least, you were there in spirit.
Pappi
Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:52 pm
#3
Knight776 wrote:I guess, technically, she did have a point, but I see a huge difference. You were doing your thing on both characters and even though you're away from one to do another, you were switching between the two. This is as opposed to setting your character on auto-pilot and wandering around the house/taking a nap/going shopping/etc.I don't have a problem with what you were doing myself....I would probably do the same thing in your position. At least, you were there in spirit.
agreed...
that, and I probably would've taken group lead and disbanded it *smirk*
LyteFoot
Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:25 am
#4
Well I disagree that the other person had any point at all. You were not afk you were right there. Your alt wasn't out hunting requiring that you not look away from it. You were stocking a vendor, an activity that is slow, can be switched away from at any time, and isn't interacting with others allowing your personal interactions to be focused on one character.
As for your anti-AFK attitude, thats a personal thing. I've basically decided that until its not "legal" I'm gonna stop worrying about it. There is enough to worry about in life without that.
Reachwind
Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:42 am
#5
You weren't AFK but you weren't playing your character either.
If you aren't actually PLAYING your character why is it even online? Why did you need to have two characters online at the same time?
If you leave your character that you aren't playing running a macro or performing actionsthat let it have a productive impact on the game then yes you are no better than someone who is AFK. Your character is using the game resources and taking a place in the economy of a player controlled character.
Why do you feel that checking in on your character that is running by itself every so often makes you any better than an AFK player?
Padtai
Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:02 am
#6
I agree with Saltee on this one.
AFK isn't about whether you are away from the keyboard, its whether you're mentally away from what your character is supposed to be doing.
One good way to check yourself, is to say, could you do what you were doing with your entertainer if it were an ID instead?
You see, an ID can't macro their play. They could (and I've done this) ID themselves and in between every two minute or whatever down time, manage another task on another computer. You wouldn't necessarily put yourself where clients could walk in though, because your attention would be divided. But if you did, then you would have to make your primary focus your entertaining work rather than the tailoring, and you'd have to watch out for it. If your clients realized you were pretty spacey, well if there were more active IDs around, then they would probably in the future go to them over someone like you.
Now just how much attention you gave your entertainer over the tailor is the question that none of us can tell, let alone people who were AFK with you. They can guess though, that like they were, you were relying on macrosto attend your character for you. The only difference is that IF someone walked in who needed you to think, then its more likely you could havedumped the macro and started to attempt to entertain, whereas those on perma AFK could not have done that.
The fact that you have to ask this question reinforces how utterly messed up the AFK/macro situation is.It wouldn't matter for other professions (like ID andTailor, or smuggler and doctor) if someone split their time, because you would know the person had to think for each character. Not so with dancer or musician.
Goldy_Lhim
Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:17 am
#7
I see no problem with your situation. You were looking for social activities and in downtime you stocked your vendors. A lot of entertainers take downtime to start a new game or something but if you're not in to leading creative efforts like that then just waiting for the next one to spring up is perfectly fine. We are all different. You're character is not24/7 on autopilot without a second thought after the initial login and macro starting. That's a true AFK'er in my opinion.
What is kinda funny is this person is yelling at you because you are willing to take the group because she wants to go afk but doesn't want to give it to you because you are periodically looking away. Something about a pot and a kettle fits in here....
Schardour
Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:53 am
#8
To Sal'tee and others who feel you can't look to other windows and still watch your character...
I consistently read the forums when the cantinas are empty (afk is empty, in my opinion) or the conversation is absolutely inane. When you're running the game in 'windowed' mode, you can easily monitor the chat tab underneath a re-sized explorer window. Sure, I may not see and greet each individual that walks into the cantina, but very rarely do they respond anyway. In any case, I'm still "on call" at the cantina, and absolutely able to respond to any /tell or spatial conversation as I see fit. Should we not multi-task? Must every player sit unmoving in front of a screen watching their character sway in the base exotic animations for hours while their vendors rot? I think it's really just a matter of personal preference and ability to split their attention between two activities.
If you've ever run a vendor, it's not the most exciting thing in the world to deal with. I wouldn't expect the merchant to focus intensely on their every action. Most people can walk and talk at the same time 
Alt+Tab is a rather simple means of doing that.
Alt+Tab is a rather simple means of doing that.I'm with Pappi on this topic though. /disband as soon as the player steps away from the keyboard 
Reachwind
Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:58 am
#9
Schardour wrote:
To Sal'tee and others who feel you can't look to other windows and still watch your character...
I consistently read the forums when the cantinas are empty (afk is empty, in my opinion) or the conversation is absolutely inane. When you're running the game in 'windowed' mode, you can easily monitor the chat tab underneath a re-sized explorer window. Sure, I may not see and greet each individual that walks into the cantina, but very rarely do they respond anyway. In any case, I'm still "on call" at the cantina, and absolutely able to respond to any /tell or spatial conversation as I see fit. Should we not multi-task? Must every player sit unmoving in front of a screen watching their character sway in the base exotic animations for hours while their vendors rot? I think it's really just a matter of personal preference and ability to split their attention between two activities.
If you've ever run a vendor, it's not the most exciting thing in the world to deal with. I wouldn't expect the merchant to focus intensely on their every action. Most people can walk and talk at the same time
I'm with Pappi on this topic though. /disband as soon as the player steps away from the keyboard
If you aren't interested in playing your dancer then you are playing the wrong character. If you think that your dancer is not entertaining enough for you to actually play it, do something else. Your entire argument is built on a cop out.
Yes you should watch each and every action your character does... You are paying to PLAY as that character.
Schardour
Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:11 am
#10
Have you ever held a conversation while dancing? Did you pay more attention to the chat window than the people entering the cantina?
It's really not all that difficult to pay attention to multiple windows In fact, it's an ability that I would consider crucial to survival. How would you live through rush hour traffic if you only watched the road in front of you?
In fact, it's an ability that I would consider crucial to survival. How would you live through rush hour traffic if you only watched the road in front of you?I think most people can successfully do two small tasks at once. I don't consider casual cantina performance to be very taxing. Nor is dealing with a vendor. Moving your eyes, clicking, typing....
Reachwind
Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:17 am
#11
If you aren't PLAYING your character why is it actively participating in the game? Why did you log it in? Just to chat? You can't chat without skill animating? You do know that your character does not have to use the dance animation to access chat right?
This may come as a shock to you but there really are people that play this game that actually PLAY as dancers and musicians. In so far as they execute commands, care about the direction their character moves, faces and animates. People that actually listen and care about how the player made music sounds.
If you aren't interested in actually playing your dancer or musician... Why choose that profession?
psikobunny
Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:18 am
#12
Aynianu wrote:
...
I joined the entertainer group, about 3 non-afk's there, Mos Eisley is spam city so i generally keep spatial off. so i can chat in group easier.
...
This would be the straw that broke the camel's back in defining you as AFK in my book. Being ATK is all about interacting with the cantina patrons for me. I could care less about the people who solely chat with the group. Is it wrong for you to split your attention between two comps? no, not really if the cantina is slow. But in total, you're there/not there tendencies, plus the fact you don't even look at spatial, makes you functionally AFK. At least in terms of the cantina patrons. If the town is spam happy, then grow a nice bigg addignore list. If you're worried about missing something in Group/Guild/Message because of spatial chat, then create a smaller pane that shows only those, thats how I keep up with them. Thebest ATK entertainers "work the room" (even when no one appreciates it) and, I'm sorry to say it, your post doesn't make it seem as if you were.
Ikewe
Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:57 am
#13
We must each make this determination for ourselves. I have noticed recently an effort to define AFK vs ATK perhaps in an effort to reassure ourselves that we are some how better than the vending machines we so despise. I recently had a dancer tell me he never went AFK except when he went to sleep. This dancer considered himself an ATK entertainer despite the fact that for several hours he left his "toon" unattended. My definition is fairly rigid. When I first learned to dance I did not know what a macro was and did not use them. I had to be right there staring at my screen whether there were patrons there or not. That established my definition of ATK. I now use macros for my performances because I am not skilled enough to put on a good show and still talk and interact with patrons, guildmembers, and those sending me tells. There are certainly going to be other entertainers who look down on the fact that I use macros. I recognize that and accept it. You will just have to recognize that there are going to be performers who look at "splitting time" between two characters as being essentially AFK.
I would have to say that for me the disturbing part isn't that you split your time but that you turn off spatial. How then are you really monitoring the cantina? Surely you miss patrons coming in and talking? If that's the case then no matter how much you declare you are against AFK you might want to consider if you are adding to the impression among cantina patrons that all entertainers are AFK. Certainly there are a large number of people who never return our greeting, wave, or smile. But if we stop initiating the interaction how then are we demonstrating that we are there?
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
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