Dancer Archive
Thread: how bad will this hurt?
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Tangleweb
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:00 am
#1
has anyone heard about this? and if so, what would that mean for the non-combat/non-crafting professions?
click hereand then come back to discuss the possible rammifications
Rosaria Caroleema
p.s. if someone could find more solid information about this than the here-say i've just discovered please link to that too.
LyteFoot
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:13 am
#2
I've gone through this with one game already and its not fun but it is survivable. The adjustment for group payouts is actually good. Unfortunately its an easy way out till the CU makes it so you can't solo everything. I don't see them cutting credits from accounts, there is simply no way to be fair. If you use a simple calculation you just make rich people a little less rich but cut the legs out of everyone else. You will see a lot of ideas float up as people struggle with losing a cash cow, lets just hope the recent spine being shown by the dev team around doing unpopular but needed things holds up.
picklesSW
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:18 am
#3
It'll mean nothing.
Oh, I know, people will argue strenuously in favor of this causing inflation, a crisis, a depression, mass hysteria and extreme amounts of people quitting the game. They said that way back when they delivered an across-the-board nerf on mission payouts before, and in the end, nothing changed at all.
There's so much excess cash floating around in this game it's unbelievable.
Oh, I know, people will argue strenuously in favor of this causing inflation, a crisis, a depression, mass hysteria and extreme amounts of people quitting the game. They said that way back when they delivered an across-the-board nerf on mission payouts before, and in the end, nothing changed at all.
There's so much excess cash floating around in this game it's unbelievable.
Tangleweb
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:44 am
#4
i wonder if anyone has looked at the amount of money that is available on each server. and how much goes out everyday. i'd like to see a ticker that shows how much money is going into the system kind of like the national debt clock. i think it's pretty obvious by now that a player run economy doesn't really work. all that money goinginto thesystem with no checks and balances taking it back out of the system. there needs to be something set up in the system to better control the money in the game. a galactic empire has to pay for itself somehow. i doubt the emperor and darth vader head to dantooine to run solo missions to pay for the imperial war machine. besides where does that money come from? i'd be in favor of an imperial decreed income tax. one that works on a sliding scale (but is a bit more utopian than current republican economic strategy), based on your gross value. adding in a counter on each character, tracking earnings and expenditures, then calculating what they owe in taxes annually. hmmm... my brain is hurting from actually suggesting that SOE write an internal revenue service into a game. but crazy as it sounds, it just might work.
Rosaria Caroleema
p.s. i apologize for any grammatical and punctuational errors.
LyteFoot
Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:31 am
#5
Actaully there are checks and balances, they are just poorly managed at the moment. The cost of shuttles, building maintenance, etc should pull cash out at a reasonable rate. What broke the equation was the buffs and comp that allow a player to solo high end missions at the rate of one every few minutes and the way grouping currently works for payout. The change is all about killing the solo-group and stopping this extreme source of money printing.
I find it funny that not only are the combat players yelling against the change but are actually suggesting that the experience should not be divided either. There you go richs and a master in one day. I know my son has no patience but he has the patience of Job compared to most of these kids.
NeillM
Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:24 am
#6
swampgirlinez
Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:52 am
#7
I agree with LyteFoot. We have a system for credit sinks, it's just severly unbalanced at the moment. I see the solo group payout change as a step in the right direction.
Goldy_Lhim
Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:03 am
#8
Personally I doubt this would ever happen. They'll just create more money sucking content ideas like maintenance costs on something. Or a fee to use some new gadget.
Butit'd tick me off if they ever did. 99% of my cashin the bankis donations for player events. Rich folks give me moneywhich I promise to put towards more events for Kauri. I currently have 28 million set aside to give away at player events and a lot less than that for personal use and needs lol. I had planned to give away a million at each event making me set for the next 28 events. If this gets inacted I'm down to like 5.6 million and like 5 events.
I've never depended off dancer tips to live. Its very very difficult to do. I charge for buffs and thank for every tip I receive but its rarely enough to even keep my 3 houses up (yes I need 3).I dunno if people would get more stingy with money if they did that though. Those that tip probably would continue to do so.
Warryyr
Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:16 pm
#9
As far as I'm concerned, Combat players don't know jack about income troubles unless they've relied on their own for tips and dealt with 100 credit mission payouts.
And who has endured such ridiculous means of income for FAR too long?
Entertainers.
I think the mission grouping change is premature and totally unnecessary, given that the Combat Upgrade/Revamp/Balance/Insert-This-Month's-Word-Here is coming and THAT should be what drives folks from a solo group mentality.
If you need 10 people to pull a 40k mission, and you all make 4k each - why not just go SOLO (weren't we trying to get away from that, chuckleheads?) and make 4k from a REALLY easy and REALLY boring mission?
I would imagine that one of two things will happen:
1) Solo groups will now really be solo. Money will still be made at a faster rate than anyone who groups. So, we're back to square one, Devs - good work, what a waste of resources.
2) Those who form "solo groups" now will still form "solo groups" but they will be dedicated "Credit groups" that are chock full of people ATK who are dedicated to one thing and one thing only - making credits and moving on to the next mission.
Example: 20 person group forms, pulls 37k Rancor missions. 2 missions per person. That's 40 missions. That's about 1.5 million credits payout - divided by 20, so around 74k per player.
NOW - given that the Combat system is still borked, many of these 20 players can solo these missions. So what do you do? Coordinate, organize, and farm credits. A nicely organized group of 20 players can obliterate a lair for a mission in about 10 seconds. Kill the lair, get the payout, jump on Swoops, kill the lair, get the payout - get the picture, Devs? In other words, those 40 missions will go by FAST. Very, very fast.
Players will get better with these "credit groups" and will fine tune the process, making millions, just in time to have it all overhauled for the Combat Upgrade.
A bunch of needless effort, on both the players AND the Devs part - and for what.
The same old credit farming we have today. Just forcing people to travel together. Whoopity-doo.
The point is - the Entertainers continue to make 100 credits per mission, and "rely" on tips for income. Neither of those are any way to have fun in this game - not when all your nice new stuff is in a house you're not quite sure you'll be able to pay for next month.
So, yeah - why not spend a miniscule amount of time and just - gee, I don't know -MULTIPLY ENTERTAINER MISSION PAYOUTS BY 10.Just tinker with a "solution" to the solo group problem, and let those folks keep getting richer and richer. And let Entertainers remain broke and neglected. Very lame.
Goodwork, Devs. Stop wasting your resources on this garbage and for God's sake, DO SOMETHING forus. No matter what you guys do, we're never an issue, which is pathetic.
Groovymarlin
Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:32 pm
#10
They not only need to increase the payout on Entertainer missions, they need to make them SCALE. So if five master musicians and dancers are grouped, and take a mission from the terminal, the payout is much higher than if only one master was taking a mission solo. I mean jeez...they're encouraging grouping for combat, why not for non-combat?
DanceRulez
Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:49 pm
#11
Tangleweb wrote:i wonder if anyone has looked at the amount of money that is available on each server. and how much goes out everyday. i'd like to see a ticker that shows how much money is going into the system kind of like the national debt clock. i think it's pretty obvious by now that a player run economy doesn't really work. all that money going into the system with no checks and balances taking it back out of the system. there needs to be something set up in the system to better control the money in the game. a galactic empire has to pay for itself somehow. i doubt the emperor and darth vader head to dantooine to run solo missions to pay for the imperial war machine. besides where does that money come from? i'd be in favor of an imperial decreed income tax. one that works on a sliding scale (but is a bit more utopian than current republican economic strategy), based on your gross value. adding in a counter on each character, tracking earnings and expenditures, then calculating what they owe in taxes annually. hmmm... my brain is hurting from actually suggesting that SOE write an internal revenue service into a game. but crazy as it sounds, it just might work.Rosaria Caroleemap.s. i apologize for any grammatical and punctuational errors.
They can track the money flow in the economy. One time they even showed a graph of money sources and sinks to show us a little about where money was being generated in game and what types of things were draining credits from the economy. I don't know if that link is still accessible anywhere.
Eaca
Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:12 pm
#12
Warryyr wrote:
Example: 20 person group forms, pulls 37k Rancor missions. 2 missions per person. That's 40 missions. That's about 1.5 million credits payout - divided by 20, so around 74k per player.
NOW - given that the Combat system is still borked, many of these 20 players can solo these missions. So what do you do? Coordinate, organize, and farm credits. A nicely organized group of 20 players can obliterate a lair for a mission in about 10 seconds. Kill the lair, get the payout, jump on Swoops, kill the lair, get the payout - get the picture, Devs? In other words, those 40 missions will go by FAST. Very, very fast.
Example: My rifleman alt (Lilika) with her +10 rifle speed shirt can obliterate a 40k HAM mokk/janta lair in about 20-30 seconds (average) including killing and looting all said mokks and jantas. Thats 30k in 30 seconds. But it takes an average of 6 minutes for me to do 2 of those missions, simply because of driving time. Your group of 20 out there is going to take at least 30 minutes to herd everybody together and do 40 missions, so they could do what? 3 of these sets in an hour, for a total of 220k per player, down from 500-600k per player, I'd say thats still a significant reduction.
kirah_ashlin
Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:38 pm
#13
Gee, color me nostalgic, but I recall a day whena bunch ofuswould get together in a group just to hunt . . . not specifically for the credit payout, but because it was simply a fun thing to do with friends . . . then solo "groups" started . . . 
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