Dancer Archive

Thread: Attention: HAM Changes In Concept

Panthu
Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:06 am
#1

Sorry guys, I didn't realize this had already been posted in the In Concept forum. The thread is already very long and it's onlybeen up since last night.


Please, go be vocal for the Dancercommunity in that thread, then come back andlet's talk about it in here in even greater detail.


HAM Changes





P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

ArgentWulf
Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:27 am
#2

Huh!


Is it just me, am I being dense or was he speaking wookie! I read it a couple times and I'm still not sure what hes talking about. Of course, some thing simple in application can be quite difficult to describe.


WhatI gather is each bar will get another bar(s?) that will be tied loosely to its parent bar that dictates the ability to use associated special moves for that pooland this bar regenerates at a different rate then the parent bar and wont be affected by the secondaries and would probablyremain unbuffable. Is this pretty much what hes talking about or I'm I way off base?


If so? Where do we fit in, if at all in the equation?



Leivi Esava
Galaxy Girl for May 2005
Life is a journey, not a destination, enjoy the ride! A special friend makes it even more fun.
Goldy_Lhim
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:09 am
#3
Thank god I am not the only one! lol


I as well am clueless on what he was talking about and how it effects dancers



G O L D Y
Event: Holiday Party H A W T P A N T S
D A N C E & M U S I C Ent-Mode FTW!
Join Kauri's Entertainer ChatI M A G E D E S I G N

PoilDeCarotte
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:15 am
#4
What I understood is that there will be an Abilities pool above each of the 3 pools.

We are only affected by Action, right? (I am not even Novice Dancer so pardon me if I'm wrong )


This Abilities pool regenerates very fast. So, I understand that this will be a plus for us: as we won't run out of Action points anymore, and as the new Abilities (action) pool regenerates fast.


Example: H: 800; A: 800; M: 600 (simple example)

Above that we will have: H Ability pool: 800; A Ability pool: 800;M Ability pool: 600


Do one flourish: Action pool does not change but Action Ability pool will drop down to (e.g.) 700.

This one should regenerate very fast, so I think that before doing our next flourish the Action Ability pool should be back to or close to 800.


If the Action pool is at 400 then the Action Ability pool max. will be at 400.


(not sure if I am understandable )



______________________________________________________________________

Just call me PDC or Poil...
QuixoticJedi1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:20 am
#5




ArgentWulf wrote:


Huh!


Is it just me, am I being dense or was he speaking wookie! I read it a couple times and I'm still not sure what hes talking about. Of course, some thing simple in application can be quite difficult to describe.


WhatI gather is each bar will get another bar(s?) that will be tied loosely to its parent bar that dictates the ability to use associated special moves for that pooland this bar regenerates at a different rate then the parent bar and wont be affected by the secondaries and would probablyremain unbuffable. Is this pretty much what hes talking about or I'm I way off base?


If so? Where do we fit in, if at all in the equation?






Yes, at least that's my take. However, I read that it would still be affected by the secondaries, but no longer in a linear fashion. In other words, if someone has a strength of 700 and get buffed to 1400 they would see a noticeable difference in their special ability cost. However, if they buff to 2500 the difference would be negligible. Meaning that people could no longer be buffed to the point where special ability cost were esentially nill. No more spamming Unarmed Hit 3.


I think we fit in to a couple of places. First, our buffs would no longer have the same effect as they do today. We can buff folks, but their effects are reduced. Second, our action costs for doing flourishes would be sligthly different. Rather than pulling directly from the Action pool - they would pull from the new "Action Special Abilities" pool. We can take Agragaram (however you spell it) or get quickness buffed, but the benefits will now cap out so we may not be able to flourish quite as much in a short period of time.


The main benefit of all this is that you can no longer incap yourself by doing special abilities and it reduces the dependency on buffs (if you consider that a benefit). It does make for a more tactical play style, rather than just a simple tank approach to things. /attack; /unarmedhit3 /repeat Bleh!




Quix'Otic

Knight Errant of the

Gypsy Court


Xyrdre
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:39 am
#6


Correct. That's a pretty good basic assessment.


Now, the limiting factor of those 'abilities' pools (used for specials costs) is damage taken, which then in turn reduces the maximum value of the abilities pools. In short, the more hurt you get, thefewer specials you can spam out before you have to wait toregenerateand be able to do new specials.It's a very combat-oriented system, but we may look at how it affects us:


As we are not generally in combat taking damage while we dance, our abilities pools will never have a reduced maximum. Therefore, the only stats important to entertainers in this new system become the Action and Quickness stats. Stamina only affects the regeneration of action damage, which we would no longer take (the abilities pool for action, presumably, would have a fixed regeneration rate). Therefore, our Action stats determine the size of our abilities pool, and the Quickness reduces our abilities costs for dances and flos as it does now.


I have to assume that for dancers, specials include the very act of dancing as well as flourishing, as those both have action costs associated with them. There is no 'default attack' analogy - something that is performing the basic function while having zero costs associated with it.


Therefore, dancing and flourishing would deplete the abilities pool, which in turn regenerates at a quicker rate than action damage currently does. So in theory, we could dance longer undercasual flourishing loads.


The new proposed system seems to intend on the removal of the ability to just spam specials non-stop. The only time we as entertainers do this is when we buff, in trying to hit those 3:20 fast buffs.


Note that there would be no buff or food that would allow us to spam flos the way we do now for the rapid buffing method. As I read this,doc buffing would only affect damage pools and regen rates, but have no effect whatsoever on the abilities pool per HAM bar. Therefore, depending onthe actual regen rate of that abilities pool, we might see ourselves unable to do the 3:20 buff. Action and Quickness alone would be key.


Now... all of this presupposes that our dance and flo costs are not considered when they're rebalancing everything in the HAM system. I hate to say it, but it's likely that once again, the devs are only considering the impact of the combat end of things, even though the HAM system affects entertainers and crafters as well (just in different ways). I'd hate to think that once again our part of all this was simply overlooked in the mix.... forgotten, like with the FS lines.


Now would be a good time to remind them that non-combat professions are affected by changes to the HAM specials changes proposed, and that those effects need to be considered along in the mix. Now, as in... before it's too late. And we have that opportunity. If there was a thread outlining FS abilities lines months ahead of time, and we saw that we weren't a part of that, a gentle reminder could have been spoken.


I'll probably have more thoughts later on... but this is a good start.





Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...
Xyrdre
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:43 am
#7

Oops... quick amendment there...


Quickness enhancing foods or buffs would still, in theory, reduce our "specials" costs, so those would still have the desired effects.


No sleep makes the dancer groggy...


Move along citizen...





Deila Karlossi , Blue Glowie of Dancers, and become more powerful than you could possibly imagine...
Esharra
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:48 am
#8




QuixoticJedi1 wrote:


The main benefit of all this is that you can no longer incap yourself by doing special abilities and it reduces the dependency on buffs (if you consider that a benefit). It does make for a more tactical play style, rather than just a simple tank approach to things. /attack; /unarmedhit3 /repeat Bleh!





Yup..Commandos will be able to use heavy weapons without killing themselves before they kill their target. Combat players will have to learn to use their skills rather than just finding buffs and throwing their highest damage special at everything in sight.


I think it is a good first move to bring a greater degree of balance and interest to pve combat without negating the benefits of buffs. In pvp, we'll no longer be taking bets on what kills the riflemen first..the CM or strafe 2.


Panthu, will flourishes be using up action or the 'specials bar'? Is there any information yet regarding whether this directly effects our playability? Other than the obvious; that players who have been wanting mind buffs to enable them to toss more specials will no longer require them.


(or have I interpreted the whole thing wrongly?)





Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Warryyr
Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:19 am
#9
Whoa, interesting.


It sounds like the interface TH suggests is a little confusing, though. Maybe it'll make more sense once I see what he means.


The thing about this change, though, is that I feel it still doesn't solve the problem of focusing on Mind with PvP. Mind would still be the primary focus for damage - because it's buff is less than the other HAM's buffs. It also can't be healed mid-battle with a stim, either.


A dancer buff will double the Mind pool to 2200. A set of good Doc buffs will boost the other HAM values to around 2800 or better. The mind value is still the vulnerable area to hit...it has less HAM. Let's say the character chugs some +400 brandy though, 2 of them. Now the Mind pool is 3000 for a 1/2 hour. That's all well and good, but when the Mind pool takes damage, it can't be stimmed back to Health. Again, it's the vulnerable area to hit on an opponent. A Doctor can heal everything but Mind. There's not a quick heal method for Mind like other pools. It will remain the primary focus to take down an opponent, I fear - even with this new HAM system. I don't feel the problem is special attack costs, the problem is non-healable Mind on the battlefield.


My solution?


Battlefield entertainers. Drummers and fife players were common on battlefields in the past, why not allow us to get out of the cantina and benefit our fellow PvP'ers? If we have some ability to play on a battlefield and heal player's mind damage (not just wounds, but damage - we need to get that Mind pool out of white fast) we could take an active part in the GCW.


Unfortunately, it would also make us a prime target on the battlefield. I think that would be fun, though - at least we could participate and provide an essential service. It would add a new dynamic to PvP. A lot of folks would probably resist though, with continuity concerns and such. But it would allow for a counter to the focus on Mind damage in PvP.



Vorpaks
Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:25 am
#10
/startmusic Ride of the Valkieries




Paks
Master Ranger/Master Creature Handler
-I support ATK play

QuixoticJedi1
Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:25 am
#11




Warryyr wrote:

Whoa, interesting.


It sounds like the interface TH suggests is a little confusing, though. Maybe it'll make more sense once I see what he means.




I think the interface sounds pretty solid. Take Action - it would display a dark green color when your special abilities were maxed, but as you used your special abilities the darker green would shrink and a lighter green would display behind, indicating your total action. If you take action damage, the lighter green bar would be reduced to white as it is today. If you take damage, black will fill the bar. I think it would work well.



Quix'Otic

Knight Errant of the

Gypsy Court


Warryyr
Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:46 am
#12




Vorpaks wrote:
/startmusic Ride of the Valkieries






exactly

Warryyr
Fri Jul 23, 2004 7:48 am
#13




QuixoticJedi1 wrote:




Warryyr wrote:

Whoa, interesting.


It sounds like the interface TH suggests is a little confusing, though. Maybe it'll make more sense once I see what he means.




I think the interface sounds pretty solid. Take Action - it would display a dark green color when your special abilities were maxed, but as you used your special abilities the darker green would shrink and a lighter green would display behind, indicating your total action. If you take action damage, the lighter green bar would be reduced to white as it is today. If you take damage, black will fill the bar. I think it would work well.






Hmm...I got ya.


What happens if you take damage to your Action bar (not wounds, but damage) so it goes white - but you haven't used up any of your Special Abilities? How would the light green lower while the dark green stayed where it was? Or would damage to the Action bar affect how much Special Abilities you have left?


Page 1 of 4
Previous Next