Dancer Archive

Thread: Bots do more good than harm

Dreamland
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:28 am
#79


You know the recent vendor nerf on test center has made me think of something.


I think alot of the reason we the players dont get heard on issues is because were not unified, not a solid comunity. Were more like a disfunctional trailer park where everyone shoots at eachothers dog for barking.


Whenever a change that benefits someone comes in like the removal of recursive macros, All manner of people come flooding over to the first profession board that benefits from it the most and start attacking. So then when something stupid comes in thats going to hurt your profession, wheres the rest of the community to back you up? There sitting there laughing to themselves at your plight because they remember how they were attacked.


Now i have sympathy for the crafters, in fact i have a crafter. A good example is the combat comunity, where were the other communities to support them when their combat balance got delayed? Probably sitting back shaking their head thinking about the last time they got somehting and were told they didn't deserve it because the weren't of any value anyhow.

Message Edited by Dreamland on 08-09-2004 08:48 AM

JohnMarble
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:03 am
#80




CodeBreaker007 wrote:


Tell me if you dance all day, what else do you do in swg, if your telling me that you sit at your pc all day just dancing then your just paying monthly for an expensive chat channel....Don't get me wrong but I don't beleive that someone just dances all day and does nothing else in swg..



Hard to believe, I know, but not everybody plays the game the way you do. Some people find the combat in SWG very very boring. How could somebody not be bored out of their mind killing cavemen for hours, all alone, spamming the same special over and over. Going to the terminal, traveling the same ground, killin caveman, going back, over and over and over and over.SWG offersmore than a chatroom, by the way.


Read your Bartle, and respect your fellow players.


dalice
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:39 pm
#81


These buff bots have got to go. Only since the announcement about the recursive macros have I seen some real entertainers back in the cantinas! Not just master dancers and master musicians, but real live people who play because they have FUN interacting with other people.These bots just encourage those seeking buffs to run right past the atk people, grab their buffs and leave. And more times than not, those same people make snide comments about entertainers being afk, even though they encourage that habbit.

Personally Ill be a happy camper when I see the bots gone!



Cailet - Master Doctor / Dancer - Bria
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."- Einstein

SmedleyLlama
Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:59 pm
#82








Dreamland wrote:


Just on a side note to those that say "but there will be noone there at all"in theed cantina last night about 11 pm something happened that spat everyone out of the game in the cantina, made them crash, as i logged back in i looked around to realise that about 15 or so entertainers had logged back in and the rest were all ld. There were at least 15 entertainers including several masters myself and a musician friend included who were buffing that were all live and on at 11 pm. almost double that amount were afk and unable to log back in.







And I took my Dancer into a deserted Bestine cantina on Starsider yesterday afternoon, set up shop and had a hadnful of people tell me how happy they were to actually see an entertainer in there again. Seems it's been abandoned for quite some time.


It might be time to move out of Theed occasionally.

therealzizz
Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:31 am
#83

ok, I know this would involve actually CODING rather than just a quick whack from the nerf bat, but it IS possible to have menu commands that do not have an associated /command with them. Perfect example: there is no way other than clicking ACCEPT to take an offer from an Image Designer.


Why can there be a click ONLY point in Doc buffs and Ent buffs? this would solve it all and not nerf our ability to macro!

Nacoa
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:31 pm
#84

Actually, both the ID and the victim can accept changes using a / command. Details are in the FAQ in the ID forum.

What makes ID not completely macro-able is the ID has no way to make a change without a click, and only gets XP if they make a change.

Message Edited by Nacoa on 08-11-2004 04:33 PM





I'm baaaaaack
And it looks like I'll be going again.

ZabrackDimo
Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:08 pm
#85

Having been playing online games now for over 10 years (yes, I amso old that I started back whentext-based mmorpg were the best you could get)I think I probably have a bit more experience than the average swg player so here's my two cents for you people who've only played this. An ingame macro system is one of the best ideas swg had. IF/WHEN they eliminate it, they are going to open the door for all the liitle hackers to create third-party programs to do what they no longer can get done with the ingame macros. It is NOT going to eliminate buffbots. It is just going to alter the way people work them. Is it going to make entertainers all start dancing with joy? Probably not for very long since I doubt there're many of you who actually sat there and hit flourish 1, flourish 2, etc about a million times by hand (I did since I helped my wife with her dancer way back before people even realized there was an ingame macro command system). Is it going to take programmers away from content and debugging (at least I would like to think they try to debug even though I don't see any of the months old bugs being fixxed) probably yes. Is this overall going to improve your gameplay? Probably not. Is it going to cause an influx of illegal third party programs? No doubt.


Drygo
Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:52 pm
#86






ZabrackDimo wrote:

Having been playing online games now for over 10 years (yes, I amso old that I started back whentext-based mmorpg were the best you could get)I think I probably have a bit more experience than the average swg player so here's my two cents for you people who've only played this. An ingame macro system is one of the best ideas swg had. IF/WHEN they eliminate it, they are going to open the door for all the liitle hackers to create third-party programs to do what they no longer can get done with the ingame macros. It is NOT going to eliminate buffbots. It is just going to alter the way people work them. Is it going to make entertainers all start dancing with joy? Probably not for very long since I doubt there're many of you who actually sat there and hit flourish 1, flourish 2, etc about a million times by hand (I did since I helped my wife with her dancer way back before people even realized there was an ingame macro command system). Is it going to take programmers away from content and debugging (at least I would like to think they try to debug even though I don't see any of the months old bugs being fixxed) probably yes. Is this overall going to improve your gameplay? Probably not. Is it going to cause an influx of illegal third party programs? No doubt.









It's all a matter of perspective. I, too, have played many online games, sometimes for long periods of time, sometimes for short periods of time. And, from my own personal perspective, the fact that SWG made the initial decision to allow such a macro system was a gamebreaker for me. I will admit that I have never played a game with such an extensive macro system (and trust me, I never will again), so I didn't know what I was getting into. I grew to love this game a heck of a lot, so once I realized what was going on, it took me an extremely long time to finally decide to quit. Then, of course, the devs made the decision to end the recursive macro and I resubscribed. In the games I've played that had a larger degree of afk, that unattended afk gameplay has always been a factor that has led to ruining the entire experience for me and for several others.


There are two sides to every argument, and there are always a group of people on each side. I admit there seems to be a lot of people in SWG that love the recursive macro. But, I'd be willing to bet there's just as many of us that hate it. A game enhancement to you, is a gamebreaker for me.


I've always been of the opinion that SWG is actually pretty good at releasing content, better than most games. So, if there's a bit of a slowdown because some resources have to be spent on curbing afk play and following up on reports of afk 3rd party software (which I *will* be reporting if I know that buffbots are doing it...as I know will many other entertainers), then I'm more than willing to live with it. Because in the end, this game is going to be better, more immersive, more fun, and a richer game for it.


That's just my opinion. I know you disagree. But, to me, with all of my online gaming experience, unattended gameplay is the bane of enjoyable online games and runs a game into the ground *much* quicker than taking away design resources in order to stop it.




- I support hawtpants
PoetDancer
Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:04 pm
#87

If buffbots are a good thing, then duping must be a good thing too.


Buffbots provide a much needed service because there aren't enough buffs to go around.

Therefore, dupers must provide a much needed service because there aren't enough 1000 overall quality steel units to go around.


Buffbots make high end content much more available.

Kryat dupers do too due to the fact that they provide the high end weapons needed in abundance.


Buffbots are only doing what comes naturally, because nobody should have to sacrifice game time to press F1.

Same with dupers, because nobody should have to do the boring work of surveying, buying power, paying maitenance, and checking on them.


....So why not legalize duping? I'm sure the playerbase wouldn't mind the fruits of such an endevour. After all, it gives everybody what they want, no? Crafters get the resources they need to make the best weapons, and combatants get what they need too. EVERYONE IS HAPPY.



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Rence
Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:12 pm
#88

Buff Bots scew the SWG economy.


AFK free buffing, takes money away from role players.


role players can't buy goods. merchants can't sell. I see too many empty vendors.


Buff Bots are bad for the SWG economy.



Trust comes from honesty
Nacoa
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:22 am
#89


ZabrackDimo wrote:
Having been playing online games now for over 10 years (yes, I am so old that I started back when text-based mmorpg were the best you could get) I think I probably have a bit more experience than the average swg player so here's my two cents for you people who've only played this. An ingame macro system is one of the best ideas swg had. IF/WHEN they eliminate it, they are going to open the door for all the liitle hackers to create third-party programs to do what they no longer can get done with the ingame macros. It is NOT going to eliminate buffbots. It is just going to alter the way people work them. Is it going to make entertainers all start dancing with joy? Probably not for very long since I doubt there're many of you who actually sat there and hit flourish 1, flourish 2, etc about a million times by hand (I did since I helped my wife with her dancer way back before people even realized there was an ingame macro command system). Is it going to take programmers away from content and debugging (at least I would like to think they try to debug even though I don't see any of the months old bugs being fixxed) probably yes. Is this overall going to improve your gameplay? Probably not. Is it going to cause an influx of illegal third party programs? No doubt.


Having played online games for over 10 years also, I learned to read carefully. If you had, you'd notice no one is removing the macro system. They are removing the recurisve abilities of the current macro system. So no, no one will have to hit the flourish keys manually, they'll still have a macro to /flourish. It'll just end at some point in time, and they'll need an /alarmaddin 0 0 to remind them to start it again.

God there is so much FUD over removing recursive macros. It's quite amazing how many people aren't reading what the devs are saying and leap to wild-ass conclusions. Perhaps I'm just feeling like a tired old fish at the moment, but come on people! Read! Macros stay. /ui action toolbarSlot stays. Recursive macros go.

3rd party macro programs? Already exist. Already are used, since they do more than the in-game system can do. People have already been banned for it. People will continue to use them, and continue to be caught, and continue to be banned.





I'm baaaaaack
And it looks like I'll be going again.

Dizzey
Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:25 pm
#90

Harm or good -- I don't know and don't overly care since I am a customer .... but I will tell you this much as a customer... I despise bots (dancer bots moreso than doctor one's... the doc one's are at least somewhat functional.. just slow).. I hate dancer/music bots cus it takes me anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours to find a stupid bloody bot that I can get invited into....


Here's what happens 95% of the time... stupid bot macro is running, says for someone to invite it.. someone does... said person is now leader and is responsible for inviting others.... said person 90% of the time goes to the washroom, gets a drink, or just simply afk / ignoring everyone around him while the buff starts and doesn't invite others into the group.


This happens so often that it is infuriating.. it is not uncommon for me to lose close to an hour before getting mind buffs... thus the reason I DON'T go and get them anymore - not the worth the time and effort to get into a group because the damn player isn't at the keyboard to invite people.


Dancer/music buffs, unlike doctor buffs, are not essential to fighting tough monsters or even in PVP... but they are NICE to have - but nowhere near a necessity. I can get a doctor buff usually in under 5 minutes anywhere on coronet, bestine, theed and dantooine.... dance buffs, well, I'd be lucky to get it in 20 minutes... and that doesn't include the several minutes you must watch/listen to receive the buff.


Some of my friends have the nerve to wait and get the buffs --- but it is real stupid when you see: "Hey guys, I'll be back in a sec, getting mind buffs" .... and then only see him come back close to an hour later when he finally got into a buff group.... sorry, but that's just a waste of time...


Like I said, I don't care if bots hurt or benefit the entertainer community, my only concern as a customer is that buffbots STINK for service... slow and cumbersome and not worth using.... at the keyboard buffs are MUCH faster - takes seconds to get everyone into the group, smooth and efficient (and I always tip 15k or more to dancers that are ATK) ... sadly, I have not seen an ATK dancer/musician giving buffs in over 3 weeks now.


As such - I have given up on looking for buffs (although I am now working on an alt dancer as my "pet" to give me and my friends mind buffs for pvp battles.. I have no intent though of compounding the problem by making it an AFK bot though -- it's going to be parked and hidden far away and taken out only to service me and my friends... I haven't the nerve to encourage more entertainers to do this nonsense, so I am keeping my entertainer hidden)
Naish
Fri Aug 13, 2004 2:42 pm
#91

First, i can't believe this thread is still going, holy crap.

Second, I see that you are on bloodfin. Sounds like your buff botters have written some pretty crappy macros and don't give a shift about customer service. I'm very concerned about customer service on my bots and have spent many late nights tweaking macros and timing to make sure that you don't have to wait 30 minutes for a buff.

I hear what you are saying though, there are some really crappy macro writers and consequently bad buff bots out there.

Sucks to be on your server I guess.



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