Dancer Archive

I still think we should NEVER be a 0 skill point profession.
Check Politician... how much attention have the gotten since they got the skillpoints removed? I can't remember any at all. The closest thing was that they paused City Maintenance now, but that was because of the huricanes.

Reducing skillpoints to 0 achieves 2 things:
a) reduces us to a sidekick profession. Everyone can be Master Dancer/Master Musician and still full template jedi...
b) we'll never get any changes anymore, since we're no real profession anymore, and the devs always have more important things to do for other profs.


Reducing the skillpoints SLIGHTLY is an option. Somewhere in the dimension ID got it, NO MORE.

[Edited the following because the old sounded wrong]
I still vote for "I am happy with the skill point expenditure of Dancer."
Why?
I rather have the Devs give us content. Fix AFK. Fix the dances. Give us new stuff.
Not go the easy road of reducing skillpoints and then think "ok we reduced skillpoints to what they thought Dancer is worth now... so we can completely ignore them now for the next 2 years".

I do not think "skillpoints define us, and are a measure of our worth". But others do, and the Devs have shown they do as well (see politician, we at least get pseudo content to pretend they care... they don't even get that).

Message Edited by Coreena on 10-18-2005 05:46 PM

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Coreena wrote:
I still think we should NEVER be a 0 skill point profession.
Check Politician... how much attention have the gotten since they got the skillpoints removed?

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As opposed to the massive love and attention we have gotten on a regular basis from the development team, all along the way?

I'm sorry but I just disagree with the premise of the people who have this fear, that somehow we will "no longer get dev attention." We have never gotten dev attention. Not ever. The ONLY time we "got attention" was when they removed BF to make the combat players happy and, realizing this left us out in the cold, threw us a bone a month or two later (crafter buffs) to replace it. And as a result the cantinas are... every bit as empty as they were without the crafter buffs, if not more so. The devs can't "stop giving us attention" because (unless they were doing something to affect the combat game and we were involved, such as removal of BF) they never gave us any attention in the first place. I mean what you're basically saying is, "If we go to 0 SP then Chessack won't have a million dollars!" that's undoubtedly true, but Chessack doesn't have a million dollars in the first place, so it's a red herring.

As to "My (ID | Dancer | Musician) can't make money if it's 0 SP," the thing about it being 0 SP is, you won't need to make money as those things, because you can use your SPs to do something in addition to it. I think in the long run it'd be better for the game, given that they intend no actual content for any of these professions, to just make them the window dressing that they, in effect, already are. The only other choice is to make them real, fully-involved professions and we know the dev team will not do that. The Limbo we are in right now -- where it costs full skill pts to master them but we get almost nothing in return -- is just not viable.

C

In addition to Chessack's points, turning Entertainer into a 0 SP profession may also help revive the crafting professions a bit.

I am in favor of removing the skill point expenditure of Dancer.

Yeah i know. It's evil. But I miss dancing and can't if I wanna be able to kick butt too!

Though I think the real solution would be to lower the sp investment in ALL novice boxes. 15 points for newbies is just nuts! Put more emphasis on Mastery than newbery.

There is a fourth option. Break the non-combat professions off from the combat professions. Combat skill points are only in effect for combat professions as a means of balancing templates. You have a similar or smaller number of skill points tolearn non-combat professions such as entertainers, artisans, politcians, etc.That way you have the ability to participate in PvP and PvE fully and don't have to worry about everyonebecoming a master dancer.

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Feoras_Tuatha wrote:

There is a fourth option. Break the non-combat professions off from the combat professions. Combat skill points are only in effect for combat professions as a means of balancing templates. You have a similar or smaller number of skill points tolearn non-combat professions such as entertainers, artisans, politcians, etc.That way you have the ability to participate in PvP and PvE fully and don't have to worry about everyonebecoming a master dancer.

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That sounds like the way world of warcraft does it. Personally I hate that game, and I feel that that system makes crafting almost worthless, since the game pretty much revolves around just loot, you rarely actually need something crafted. But I would say that on paper it sounds good. Crafters would go mad if they wanted to do this though.

Message Edited by Esharra on 10-19-2005 09:33 AM

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Esharra wrote:

I'm wondering what this reflects:A discontent with the lack of content in the expansionS?

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fixed.

Ok, maybe lumping in artisans in with entertainerswas not a good idea.Maybe it can be combat professions classes andprofessions that haveeneffect on combat and thenprofessions that have no effect on combat whatsoeversuch as entertainers, dancers, musicians image designers and rangers for example.

I don't think you create a game mechanic that will force people to socialize which is what makes some cantinas such nice places to visit.

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Esharra wrote:
I'm noticing with some interest that, at this point in the discussion, there appears to be more of us who would favor a reduction or removal of skill points in comparison to the last time I ran this poll (in fact, the responses supporting removal are rather overwhelming). This is surprising to me in that we currently have more functionality and economic impact than we did previously.

I'm wondering what this reflects: A discontent with the lack of content in the expansion? Disappointment with inspirations? Either are valid concerns. [Edit] Another possible explanation..are people being a little more candid in that I admitted up front that this is my own little litmus strip and was not being considered by the devs?

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Here's what happened.

The last time you asked this question, Esharra, players of entertainers still had a little hope. We hoped that the devs could, possibly, be made to see what would make our game fun again and might, possibly, agree to do it. At the time we also knew our functionality (BF) had been or was being removed (BF was irrelevent after the CU first, and then we were told it would be taken away now that it was useless). We feared that if we asked to drop the SPs or even negate them, then BF either would not be replaced at all, or it would be replaced with something useless. So we asked to leave the skill points in.

And guess what? The devs replaced the old BF/Mind Heal system with something useless. Leaving aside the idea of props and SFX, which are nice but have zero impact on our actual quality of life in the game (interaction with each other an with patrons being 99% of what that quality of life is), the devs removed our interconnectedness to the whole game, and replaced it with these trivial at-the-keys buffs that as far as I can tell nobody even wants. Aside from a handful of crafters who came in here whining about it on our forum, nobody actually in-game seems to care about them at all. I never give them out. The number of patrons in the cantinas is zero, everywhere but Dantooine M.O., on the entire Naritus server. And of course, Dant MO is a 24/7 AFK buffbot service center.

The reason cantinas are empty and most of us have nothing to do anymore as ATK entertainers is because the devs did just what we were afraid might happen if we had a 0-SP eye candy profession -- they took our purpose out of the game and left us with (in effect) nothing. On top of that they have now released two expansions which not only have no significant content for entertainers, but are worlds where it is sheer death to step outside of the immediate area of the starport, thus removing any reason to ever go to those worlds if you are an entertainer (other than to talk to an NPC to get your new dance -- oh yes THAT is worth $30 of my money).

In short, Miss Esharra -- the devs have done exactly what we were afraid they would do if we had a zero SP profession. As a result, people have thrown up their hands and said "FINE! If they are going to treat us like a zero SP profession, then let's have our damn skill points back to do something they ARE making content for, like combat."

Frankly what surprises me the most is that after reading all the posts on this forum diligently (as you clearly do) you could be at all stunned by this response. I'd have been shocked to see it the other way, and I think the only people left asking for us to still cost SPs, especially full SPs, in the face of the undeniable facts of neglect and refusal to create content for us over a 2.5 year period, are people who are in denial.

The expansion being the way it is (a naked "pay $30 for your new dance" requirement) was the icing on the cake, or the straw that broke the bantha's back, or whatever you want to call it. People have given up on hoping the devs will ever change, because they have so openly and consistently shown that they will not. They treat us exactly like we are a 0 SP profession, and always have. People used to try to get that to change, but we now see that clearly it will not. What you are seeing is that most of us are finally waving the white flag and saying, "I give up."

C

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Esharra wrote:

A couple of notes:

I think splitting into separate non-combat and combat skill point pools is unlikely, considering the player-based economy.

I'm noticing with some interest that, at this point in the discussion, there appears to be more of us who would favor a reduction or removal of skill points in comparison to the last time I ran this poll (in fact, the responses supporting removal are rather overwhelming). This is surprising to me in that we currently have more functionality and economic impact than we did previously.

I'm wondering what this reflects:A discontent with the lack of content in the expansion? Disappointment with inspirations? Either are valid concerns. [Edit] Another possible explanation..are people being a little more candid in that I admitted up front that this is my own littlelitmus stripand was not being considered by the devs?

Well, you guys never fail to surprise me..and I guess that's why I continue to occasionally pop this question. And to reiterate, the devs have mentioned nothing to me about reducing or removing our skill point requirements.

Message Edited by Esharra on 10-19-2005 09:33 AM

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I will say that my complete reversal on the subject was due to:

1) A Dev telling us that a "variety" of quests and missions in a $30 expansion is talking to two NPC's and getting loot that a pure Ent could never get themselves. If they will not provide actual things for Entertainers to do in this game, there is no sense in skill point expenditure.

2) I see the same exact animosity and frustration from crafters that we got from combatants. Only now, crafters can't bot Entertainers. But if they could, they would have rampantly by now. I think it shows the Devs just shifted one problematic area of code toward a smaller segment of the playerbase. I, for one, am tired of the animosity and the frustration being directed at me. To hell with it all, give the skills to everyone, and let me just goof off and have fun and then get full template combat level 80 if that's the only place significant content is going to go in this game.

If we could have all of the great dancers that post on these forums on one server I would be in love. However you are all spread across multiple galaxies

There is still more AFK entertainers then ATK ones. Its a serious problem.

My wife has a dancer and she is always wishing the skill point cost would be reduced.