Dancer Archive
Thread: Let's Do Something Else [List Updated 08 March 2005]
I hate to say it, but I think that Pan's assessment is accurate. As things stand today. I don't know if that can change in the future, but this is looking like the direction rightnow.
I've been fighting very hardfor additions to the entertainer experience that would add gameplay for the so-called 'social' players- something to do besides justsit around and wonder if someone else would float on by. A game to play beyond using the tools that we do have to create shows, andhoping that someone cares enough to come see it.And honestly, it seems as though thusfar I've plowed headlong into a brick wall.
How we serve combat mechanically, without infringing on combat players' fun, seems to be the order of the day. Beyond that, we're supposed to enhance other players' fun to the best of our abilities, and presumably hope that this is fun enough for us to be our gameplay. That may be perfect for some - but I don't think that it reflects the overall feelings and wishes of the entertainer playercommunity. I believe that the truth is as Pan said - in the end, if you're a gamer you'll want a game to play.
This whole reasoning makes me so angry! OUR fun? It should be enough to enable other people's fun? You know... When I'm entertaining it IS my fun to heal people. As a novice I can't do more than that anyway. I rarely if ever go to a busy cantina, but usually hang out in an empty one but where there is traffic from combats. (If my dance and music xp are capped for Novice Musician/Dancer without my healing tree being filled, I might go to Coronet and join a group to get past that bump, but we'll see if that's neccessary). It doesn't bother me in the least if people love being in a big group, chat and being a social butterfly. But I LOVE when people come running into the cantina and are so happy to see me! That there IS an entertainer, and when they check if I'm ATK and I am, they are even more happy. I know it's not always like this, I started an entertainer on Wanderhome and dumped her, because first of all, finding an audience proved to be almost impossible, and when I did find one they got scared and ran out the door when I talked to them! I'm not a very chatty person to strangers, I said hello, how are you NN and such... ??? Now, the first part I ENJOY. The second part I DO NOT ENJOY. I don't want to feel like I'm a ghost who popped out of a closet because I'm ATK! AND THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY GAMEPLAY! There are a certain type ofplayers who are just destroying our Game. They have AFK GROUPS nowadays! Entertainer-bots, Doc-bots, Group-Bots! Loot-bots! And since this latest change to harvesting, it's only a matter of time before there are Ranger-bots too. (/follow - anyone familiar with that command?)
What is even making entertaining a"problem we need to deal with"is the fact that WE CAN'T EVEN BE SOCIAL!
If I spend my time healing people is it too much to ask that they behave like NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS BACK? They don't have to chat or be social with me! A /nod or a single "Hi" is fine! And get rid of all these Player NPCs TODAY!!!!
It's not even a question of "would this be enough for you"? (providing of course that they wouldn't take away healing, but that's not how I interpreted it) I DON'T EVEN HAVE THAT! I get really really angry at SOE for allowing these kind of people to destroy a whole perfectly good game. Granted, I'm a little bit grumpy on account of changes to the game itself too atm, but I can live with that. What I can't live with is that they are standing there wringing their hands like helpless nitwitswith "why are people abusing our game what can we do to make them not do that... how can we encourage them to PLAY the game... how can we make it more fun for them so they stop misbehaving" There IS nothing anyone can do. There is nothing!! These people/kids need a good whack on the head, and the Devs need to get back to catering to the whims and wishes of their REAL CUSTOMERS. People who are playing crafters, merchants, entertainers, healers, who are combats because they enjoy exploring and challenging themselves (and not to go I WON IN 3 MONTHS NOW WHAT, NOW WHAT, NOW WHAT!!), people who are explorers and rangersbecause they enjoy that role and gameplay not (only)because they can make a quick credit. people who take pride in fair PvP and enjoy battles on equal terms, people who build cities and guilds and communities. These are the people who loyaly stay with the game, get extra accounts, get their near and dear ones to start playing too, and who will not leave after rushing through the game in 3-4 months and leave it wrecked and littered behind them on their way out to theNext Cool Game. (excuse my non-leet spelling) SOE - THOSE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS. It's very possible that there will be a new wave of kids rushing through the game after the last SW film is released, but then what? When the Star Wars interest dies out? There won't be more films - we will be left with a game in perhaps a year or so which is stale, old and uninteresting, like an old cookie in a bakery on a Monday. And since the bakery next door are selling Fresh Cookies Baked This Morning, that's where everyone will go. So if SOE don't take care of the LOYAL customers who in term will spread GOOD PR and bring in more of the same loyal customers, there won't BE a SWG in a year. Because their might well be another wave of kids around the corner every year, but those kids only want the Newest. They don't want an old dated game. The SWG Real Customers might take more time to bring in, they don't come in waves, they come in a trickle.. but they make up for it by staying. They don't pay one month here and there and jump in and out. They find a game they like, the stick around. Unless of course THEIR issues are notEVER addressed, in favor of some impatient kids jumping up and down and screaming and threatening to leave - which they will do anyway when they have /burstrun through the "content" without making friends and understanding the interdependence and economy and sophistication of this game.
/bloodcurling scream
So, Devs, before trying to solve the "problem" with Entertainers get RID of ALL AFK so people start to PLAY the game again, flaws and all, those we can deal with in due time. NOW! Snappy movement, snappy movement! CHOP CHOP!
I will try to answer the other questions in a more calm and reasonable fashion in the other thread.
Hobbytla wrote:
".....
/bloodcurling scream
So, Devs, before trying to solve the "problem" with Entertainers get RID of ALL AFK so people start to PLAY the game again, flaws and all, those we can deal with in due time. NOW! Snappy movement, snappy movement! CHOP CHOP!"
DarkY0da wrote:
Yes one would think they wouldn't waste time coding and pushing things live that they knew were going to be useless and they were then going to remove later.... One would think that. One also could be very very wrong.
*shrugs*
For all we know, those new songs /dances could have been finished a year ago, because there were always rumors around of multiple new ones already done.
And the fact that they (very quickly, I might add) fixed the base dances NOW as a reaction to the outcry about the jukeboxes seems to suggest that they could have done that all along whenever they wanted to...
I guess they'll still want to throw us a minor bone every now and then to keep us around - hey, it's more money to them - but we'll never be a viable profession. I've given up on that thought already. And I don't even believe anymore that they'll ever remove buffbots - the outcry by the combat toons would be just too great, and they surely don't want to lose all those alt accounts. In the end they'll take the easy way out as always, especially if that's also the way that brings in more money. Game quality doesn't count for SOE.
Mystyrys wrote:
Hobbytla wrote:
".....
/hero
What Hobbytla said. Can't say it any better than that.
Thanks, again..... /blush
Although, I just found a YEAR old thread in the entertainer forums, with a very good and in-depth discussion in the "10 Questions Asked" or something thread... and nothing seems to have changed in this last year in terms of the discussion! Sigh. Disheartening - I didn't even play a year ago and I at least had the romantic notion that it was better back in the day. But, that thread was very constructive I think in terms of pointing out long standing issues and how the entertainer professions are lacking in some ways. And it has given me some ideas... as to the "Let's Do Something Else" which was the original point of this thread.
I'll submit them for critique and nitpicking when I've done a little bit more thinking... but basically - the entertainer professions need to be more active. I think there is no other way around it. As far as a passive profession goes, this class has basically failed. As an image designer I've never felt threatened or unhappy (or poor - and I only made master three days ago after working on it off and on for... eh.. months), despite some of the more annoying bugs that plague the profession.
Because
1/ ID require me to be ATK no way around it from a mechanical point
2/ There is a secure payment window (I only charge people a fee for stat migrates, the rest is tip only, I tried to be nice and ask tips for that, but ultimately, people don't want to pay for the things they actually need, only the things that they want)
3a/ Who would want their hair and makeup done bysomeone AFK?
3b/ Being an image designer requires skill of the Player, not the Character
Is it possible to use this successful experiment to turn the other entertainer professions around?
I believe so. At least, I'm willing to give it a go. But as I said, I want to think a little bit more about it.... in the meanwhile, I thought I'd throwmy "starting point"out here in this thread, in case it helps anyone else.
IMHO there is need for mission which are not insulting the the Players skill, (you could make highpaying missions - dance for an hour and you will be paid 400k, but essentially it would still be insulting to the player, no matter how financially viable the character would be),
there needs to be active participation from the person playing to get access to content (atm I can't think of any real way of doing this other than moving from cantina to cantina for instance, I'm not sure that would be appealing to most people though or alone, even to me...),
and there need to be something in the profession which other player WANT, even if we keep the functions which they feel that they NEED. And this WANT needs to be something which you have to be ATK to get, even if it's only for the duration of this "mission" or "function".
There might be a day when afk goes away, but I don't want to trust that to any mechanical function, or any policing (be it by CSR or Stormtroopers). I want it to be built into the professions. And with keeping the artistic creative side of it. Because the "social gameplay" which came up in the discussion in this thread was found to be not enough a year ago according to the thread I just read. I suspect that the people who are enjoying the social side of it will do that no matter what.
Now I'll sleep on this... (I'm in Europe, not a granny in case you were wondering)