Dancer Archive

What I would love with this is to be able to add a little text or something. I'd be using a cover charge of 1 credit and encourrage the patron to give what (s)he can if (s)he appreciate the performance

This covercharge feature reminds me so much of /denyservice and the discussion on these boards when it was introduced. While it looks like a good idea at first glances, it actually doesn't really solve the problem. If there is only one AFK zombie present who doesn't use it, it only serves to alienate our patrons. Just like being denied service from a few entertainers didn't stop griefers from harrassing them (because they still got their healing from others albeit possibly at a slower rate) but rather encouraged such behavior, I don't think this covercharge will result in a higher income for us entertainers.

Today, it's not like people just leave without tipping because they don't know they should do so, or because tipping is too complicated. These are the kind of problems this /covercharge feature would solve. But people don't tip because they can't be bothered, prefer to spend their credits in a way that is either visible to their friends or gives them an edge in combat, and because they know they can get away with it.

I think this covercharge feature might even work if a) travelling around would take a lot of time or would be very expensive (a bit like in the first weeks after launch, when there were no vehicles and everybody was quite poor), and b) entertainers would not seek company but prefer to dance/play alone. This way, a prospective patron could weigh whether to pay this entertainer or to travel to another place where there might be a cheaper alternative.

In short, I fear that this covercharge feature doesn't solve our problems in SWG, but an imaginary problem that might exist in a parallel universe where entertainers function differently.

I just can't get past the idea that this once again makes an AFKing secondary account viable.

/shout Tired of those whiney "live" entertainers and their cover charges? This service is brought to you by (insert guild name here) and is always free!

Of course the complete irony there is that people end up tipping more to the AFK person for being "free" than they would if they just talked to the live person....

I just see any forced tipping schemes as a waste of dev time, when there's so much more they could be putting their skills to creating or repairing. Sure people ask for it, but... it won't work, ever, because someone will ALWAYS be there to give the service away for free, either AFK or ATK. And if for some reason there isn't a no-fee person around at the time, people will remember that (insert dancer name here) never charges and will resent those that do. Anything that causes resentment is bad. Resentment and profit were two of the major components of the genesis of the buffbot era..

And as I've said before, tips are a product of respect. You can't force respect with a popup window. If we fix the reasons why people don't respect us, tips become a non-issue.

Anyway. I agree that it's nice to have been thought of, even if this is a feature that I wish the devs would have said "no" to when people asked. I suppose it might be another piece of this big picture that we're slowly moving towards, but sometimes it's so hard to accept the pieces blindly when you have no idea where they fit and are afraid that some of them were hijacked and rigged with explosives on the way from the warehouse.

I'm still positive about our future, though, and I'm not going to get too worked up over this for now. /shrug

Message Edited by Doriana on 05-22-2005 03:08 AM

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Ikewe wrote:

Those who have been able to test this... I'm curious to know what happens when entertainers are grouped but not all of them are charging the covercharge. Does everyone in the group still get xp when the person watches or listens? If the patron rejects the covercharge, can they simply watch or listen to someone else in the group who has no set fee?

Due to TC being mothballed the last couple of months and only coming back up late last week, traffic there is still a little slow and we haven't been there when there have been others around to group with. I haven't had a chance to test for these yet.

Also, any word on when the "you are too far away" bug will be fixed? Tonight I got a system message that I was "too far away and had stopped listening" about 10 times before we discovered that if I went to the other side of the room and tried it worked just fine. Had I been a patron who had agreed to a covercharge would I have been charged 10 times even though no BF was healed?

It *might* be fixed on TC now. Neither Scip nor I have experienced it on TC this weekend. I'm hoping we will get word on this early this week. I know it has been a concern to which they've focused.

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All in all I like the patch. In regard to the testing of theovercharge "skill", the customer point of view is essential:

What advantage does the customer have on the /overcharge?

/overcharge is a marksman skill and the "customer" has the benefit of getting a blasterbolt with more power than a normal shot between his eyes

I assume you refer to /Covercharge
The only benefits for customers are:
- they know how much the entertainer wants to be tipped and can decide if they want or not
- they have an excuse to not tip entertainers since you did not set a covercharge

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Esharra wrote:

The code isn't turned on yet. We are getting the popup when we start watching or listening but nothing further. It will likely come in the next few days.

It is turned on (I was testing it Saturday morning, retested just now to get answers to the questions below). And is working fairly well, just the text is borked which means you may not have spotted it (the payment currently goes from spectator bank to performer cash, the spectator pays once they accept the charge, the performer receives it when the spectator stops watching/listening). I'm not going to run into all the bugs here, as I've filed them and posted them in the bug thread, but to answer the questions below:

Good questions, Pal. Here's the rest of our test list so far:

• Can they get an inspiration without paying? No


• What if they don't have enough credits? If the spectator has no bank it will transfer the charge from cash to bank and then pay the performer. If no cash or bank then they cannot pay the tip and so do not get the buff (currently no feedback to show failed - /bugged).


• What happens when we start/stop watching or listening to ourselves? No problem, same as pre-patch with it giving you the extra ent healxp


• Is there a problem related to the /stopwatch bug? Haven't experienced it since the patch.


• Interactions with group members? This area needs more work. Current situation: You can go around a group and choose who you listen/watch, hence choose to pay the cheapest performer. HOWEVER you only get the buff at the rate of that individual performer, not the group (I'm not sure how this is currently on live and I haven't got BF built up to test with, so can only check buff, but testing with a novice ent and master musician group and listen to the novice got me the slow buff application)


• If you're already listening to one person, and you switch, do you get charged for both? Yes. Even if they are grouped.


• What happens if the entertainer stops performing? They don't receive payment until you stop listening/watching, if they restart performing then you continue to listen/watch with no further charge. Not tested the possibility of 'banking' the buff


• Has the "too far away" bug been stealth fixed? (so far neither of us have gotten it tonight) I haven't had it reappear


• To clarify two more that might be of interest:


• What happens if the spectator refuses the covercharge or doesn't answer the box accepting or refusing? The spectator gets no buff and the performer gets no xp, as if the person hadn't started watching/listening, they only start once they accept the charge.


• What happens if the performer types /covercharge without setting an amount? The charge is cleared.


• If there are other questions you can think up get them posted and I'll see if I or the other TCer's can get an answer together, or if you don't understand my answers let me know.

Message Edited by Esharra on 05-21-2005 03:11 AM

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Red-Dwarf wrote:

• What happens if the performer types /covercharge without setting an amount? The charge is cleared.

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"The charge is cleared", does that just mean the charge is set to 0 but the customer still gets the popup window, or does watch/listen start directly without the popup?

Few more questions:

- Is there a max amount? (like with entry fee where its 50k)

- What happens if someone watches you, and you set a covercharge during /watch and /stopwatch? Same for removing the charge during /watch and /stopwatch ?

- What happens if you /deny someone who has accepted your covercharge during the time he's watching?

- does the performer get a message who accepted/declined the charge or is watching?

Message Edited by Coreena on 05-23-2005 01:47 PM

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Red-Dwarf wrote:

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Esharra wrote:

The code isn't turned on yet. We are getting the popup when we start watching or listening but nothing further. It will likely come in the next few days.

It is turned on (I was testing it Saturday morning, retested just now to get answers to the questions below). And is working fairly well, just the text is borked which means you may not have spotted it (the payment currently goes from spectator bank to performer cash, the spectator pays once they accept the charge, the performer receives it when the spectator stops watching/listening).

Neither of us saw any change in bank or cash balance on Friday..guess they worked that out.

• What if they don't have enough credits? If the spectator has no bank it will transfer the charge from cash to bank and then pay the performer. If no cash or bank then they cannot pay the tip and so do not get the buff (currently no feedback to show failed - /bugged).

Speaking of feedback; something that I'm pushing for is that they incorporate a means of giving us feedback on who's watching..regardless of whether or not we have set a covercharge.

• Interactions with group members? This area needs more work. Current situation: You can go around a group and choose who you listen/watch, hence choose to pay the cheapest performer. HOWEVER you only get the buff at the rate of that individual performer, not the group (I'm not sure how this is currently on live and I haven't got BF built up to test with, so can only check buff, but testing with a novice ent and master musician group and listen to the novice got me the slow buff application)

That's also how it is on live. There is no benefit to the /watcher inherent in whether or not the performer is grouped..speed of application is dependent soley on the level of the entertainer being watched.

• Has the "too far away" bug been stealth fixed? (so far neither of us have gotten it tonight) I haven't had it reappear

I'm awaiting confirmation that this has been fixed. Sure is looking like it has been.

• To clarify two more that might be of interest:


• What happens if the spectator refuses the covercharge or doesn't answer the box accepting or refusing? The spectator gets no buff and the performer gets no xp, as if the person hadn't started watching/listening, they only start once they accept the charge.

One way I was able to get inspiration without paying was to just not respond to the popup. I continued to watch and just clicked "No" on the popup after a while and received the appropriate duration of inspiration buff for the time that I watched. We /bugged it. Either they addressed it or it is inconsistent.

What happens if the performer types /covercharge without setting an amount? The charge is cleared.

When we tested this, the /watcher received no popup. Did you see the same?

Thanks tons for your help. My TC char name is Eshie and Scip's is Scipionus. Please add us to your friends list. I usually am only on late nights so, unfortunately, I don't run into many entertainers who are still awake on TC.

Message Edited by Esharra on 05-23-2005 08:48 AM

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Coreena wrote:

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Red-Dwarf wrote:

• What happens if the performer types /covercharge without setting an amount? The charge is cleared.

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"The charge is cleared", does that just mean the charge is set to 0 but the customer still gets the popup window, or does watch/listen start directly without the popup?

Charge is set to zero and the watcher will not get the popup window.

Few more questions:

- Is there a max amount? (like with entry fee where its 50k) OK, I really can't see the logic in this but the max charge I can set is 2,147,483,647cr. above that amount and then it clears the charge to zero.

- What happens if someone watches you, and you set a covercharge during /watch and /stopwatch? Same for removing the charge during /watch and /stopwatch ? You can't set a charge while performing. However if you are performing and someone comes in and /watches. Then you stop, set a charge and start again the watcher will NOT pay the fee as long as they do not /watch again, but rather just wait.

- What happens if you /deny someone who has accepted your covercharge during the time he's watching?

Need to wait for more folk to be around, but it seems that the /deny does work and will stop him/her receiving any further buff. You will have to wait for him to /stopw to receive the payment.

- does the performer get a message who accepted/declined the charge or is watching?

No, this has been bugged.

Message Edited by Coreena on 05-23-2005 01:47 PM

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Red-Dwarf wrote:

(sorry, technically I'm invading your forum)

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Out of my 5 characters with masters in dancer and entertainer, 4 also have master musician. Please, you are welcome toinvade anytime.

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Red-Dwarf wrote:

- Is there a max amount? (like with entry fee where its 50k) OK, I really can't see the logic in this but the max charge I can set is 2,147,483,647cr. above that amount and then it clears the charge to zero.

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Can't see the logic in the amount or the question?
The amount: It's a standard value range of a 32 bit integer variable
The question: If its allowed to go as high as anyone wants (really... 2 billion is more than anyone can even have, i think), then this opens the door for scammers, who set the covercharge to something ridicously high (but still low enough so most people have it), and hope that a few people are just clicking "yes" because they expect it to be in a reasonable range, and woops they paid 2 million for an inspiration buff.
Sure you can now say "well they should learn to read", but in the end it will be "the stupid entertainers rip us combat players off" in addition to "you're all afk".

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- What happens if you /deny someone who has accepted your covercharge during the time he's watching?

Need to wait for more folk to be around, but it seems that the /deny does work and will stop him/her receiving any further buff. You will have to wait for him to /stopw to receive the payment.

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Could be a problem. If you /deny someone you shouldn't get paid for it, but also there should be no buff received at all.

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- does the performer get a message who accepted/declined the charge or is watching?

No, this has been bugged.

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hope we get that