Dancer Archive
Thread: Future of the Dancer Profession? Your thoughts..
Okay.. a few quick points and answers.
When I said in the next year, yes I did mean this year. I realize thats a long time to wait, but like I said there will be improvements coming along the whole way, starting with some this month.
As far as the whole Devs not having time for the entertainers thing, this is true to a degree but no more so then any other profession. The dev that works on us has been busy working on other parts of the game, he finished those jobs with the last publish and he's back to working on professions again, hence why we had a couple months with no change, and now they are going to start coming again.
As far as the AFK problem before Holocrons... I can safely say that the amount of AFK players I personally saw in the cantina's before holo's compared to after is a huge difference imo. I see probably 500% more AFK entertainers now then I did before the holo craze. Even before the holo craze there was people that where trying to master every profession and just others that didn't want to do the work to get to Master, but nothing like it is now.
Someone said that its never going to get better because people will always be trying to unlock the FSCS. That is not true in the least, perhaps you fail to understand that currently roughly 50% of the player base is working on unlocking the FSCS, from what I've seen its even more then that. There is NEVER going to be a rush as big as this one and when this one is over the VAST majority of every player that wants that slot open is going to have it open. After that you'll just have a few here and there that are new players to the game or old players that finally decided to do it, but at best you'll be looking at 2-5% of the player base. There is abolutely NO Comparison.
Ravenmist wrote:
Someone said that its never going to get better because people will always be trying to unlock the FSCS. That is not true in the least, perhaps you fail to understand that currently roughly 50% of the player base is working on unlocking the FSCS, from what I've seen its even more then that. There is NEVER going to be a rush as big as this one and when this one is over the VAST majority of every player that wants that slot open is going to have it open. After that you'll just have a few here and there that are new players to the game or old players that finally decided to do it, but at best you'll be looking at 2-5% of the player base. There is abolutely NO Comparison.
Before holocrons, afk'ing was a problem. I don't know what it's like now because I left the public cantinasaround October. Because there are more now than then doesn't mean it wasn't a real concern before. Sure, it's gotten worse but will it get better than it was before the holocraze happened?
When a new person aspiring to be a dancer walks into the cantina today, he or she sees either no one at all or people who are running a macro while they're sleeping, at work, school, the mall. The message this new person gets is, "this is a boring, tediousprofession" and "this is how you level dancing". She asks around until she gets "the macro" and she goes to bed.
When I started dancing, I rarely had to ask to join a group. They saw my tag as I came in the door and I was invited before I'd even found an open spot on the floor. There was someone to ask when I had a question, someone glad to teach when I was ready for a new skill. By October, that was no longer the case. It doesn't take 20 afk'ers to drive me away.One bad apple and allof that.
My concern is that the damage is done. It doesn't matter who the afk'ers are now or who they will be in April.Nearly everyonein every galaxy will have mastered dancer by April. A new person asking how to level in dancing will probably be told to macro it and she will because there isn't anyone there to show her what it might have been like and what it once almost was. She'll either decide on a different profession whereshe can get the social interaction she'd hoped for or she'll run her macro to master.
I have to disagree about AFKing. Less total number of AFK entertainers exist now on my 3 servers than at any time in the past. They are fewer in number. It's just that they are larger in proportion. So whereas 3 months ago every cantina on Naboo was manned, with a total of 50 performers spread across the world, and 50% of them were AFK, now they are 90% AFK, but there are only 20 total, and they are all in Theed. I did a cantina tour yesterday on my server and there were 0 other performers in any of the NPC cities other than Theed. Most of the player cantinas were empty too. So I don't agree that there are more AFKers total... it's just that there isn't really anyone left BUT the AFKers because all the real dancers are gone. In my own guild 3 or 4 of them have quit in frustration just in the last month.
Here is the problem that I see, and why I agree with Nynna that the future doesn't look so good. You talk about hanging in there a few more months, and it'll get better. Even if you are right, who is going to be left? The AFKers will go, inevitably, because they care nothing for the profession and have nothing to invest. So what will be left? A vaccuum. It's not as if suddenly Sinda and Beery and all the dancers who are long since gone over this issue are going to wake up one day in April and go, "Hey, let's try SWG again, I hear the AFK issue is over." In April (or whenever) it's going to be too late. There will be a few of us hangers-on who were too stubborn to give up or just liked dancing too much, most of us relegated to private cantinas that ban AFKing or at least discourage it, and nobody else.
Well now what happens when people have to get healed? I can't imagine SOE is going to just leave it like that. They are going to have to do something. What will they do? Probably: introduce NPC heal bots or the equivalent. On the justification, "Well, there aren't enough player healers to meet demands." Of course, they will not admit that they caused the situation to exist in the first place, because the dedicated performers left due to their inaction on this AFK issue. The ultimate conclusion to this isn't things getting better... it's the removal of entertainment professions from the game as extranneous or irrelevent.
I'm sorry to be negative about this but I don't see things getting better on their own, and the fact that SOE and LA are bald-facedly encouraging and rewarding macro grinding is just depressing.
C
Ravenmist wrote:You will have the remains of the heart of the group, the ATK socializers and who can say how many will be left.
Well, I'm not going anwhere.
But from what I can see, this will be a very, very tiny number indeed.
I think there is a flaw in the idea that "slowly the true entertainers will come back." Several flaws, actually.
The first one is, the opportunity has been missed. A bunch of people who liked socializing and thought, "At last, a MMORPG that actually lets me do my thing unobstructed and un-interfered with by the leet-d00d-powergamer-uber jerks" tried it already. They found it lacking due to various things, the main thing being AFK but tons of other issues abounded as well. Those people are gone. they are not coming back. Who is going to fill their shoes? The uber-leet-d00ds? I don't think so. SWG had a chance -- one chance only, the first few months after release -- to capture the non-leet crowd, the socializers, the RPers, the dancers. It captured us, but then it let us down by catering to everyone BUT us, even in our own profession. The people it captured, who subsequently left are, permanently in most cases, gone. In short, there is no further audience from which to draw. The socializers tried it, got frustrated, and left. The uber-leets will get their holo-mastery and leave. The AFKers will AFK master and leave. There will be no one left to entertain.
The second flaw is, the uber-leet-combat-wombats who are so pro-AFK in the first place, who just want healing and want it NOW, are not going to wait through several months of empty cantinas (cantinae?) for things to "even out" and the socializers and true performers to realize there is a market for us out in the wide galaxy once again, and leave our player-cantinae (to which we have mostly now retreated in disgust and dismay) to once again travel the stars and perform. You think these people who consider it a crime against God and Humanity to have to take a 10 minute shuttle hop to another place to get healing, are going to think it is just fine and dandy to have 90% of cantinae empty and unmanned for 3 months until the socializers, if any are even left, come back? Nuh-uh. Not going to happen. They will go onto the forums en masse, and whine and moan and scream and cry and they will outnumber you 10,000 to 1. The devs will have no choice. They have lost the socializers. The people to whom this profession was catered. The socializers are gone, in general, and will not be coming back. They're angry and hurt. They feel cheated and left hung out to dry by having the one profession (entertainment) that was in the game for them, allowed to be turned into another leet-d00d profession. They will not be back, mostly ever, and certainly not quickly. So what do the devs do? They are going to have to either provide NPC healers, give mind wound healing to other profs as well like Combat Medics, or just take mind wounds and BF out of the game. For practical and obvious reasons they cannot allow a situation where 90% of the player base can't get its BF healed.
Is this a bed of the developers' own making? ABSOLUTELY and you would be right to flame them for it. But, whether it's their fault or not, they can't escape the reality of what is going to happen.
Things are quiet now, because the hologrinders are everywhere, and the combat-wombats can get their healing whenever and wherever they want it. But wait. When the grinders leave, and there are no socializers to replace them, there will be a hue and cry to wake the dead. The developers cannot ignore such a thing, and they will HAVE to do something about it. They can't bring the socializers back. And frankly they have shown themselves to be utterly unsympathetic to the socialization crowd since the game came out (not the case with the game design, which highly supports the socializers, but ever since). I don't think that suddenly they are going to start supporting us now.
I know this sounds very negative but like Nynna I am a bit fed up and disappointed. I thought this game was going to be different, but it seems like it is the same old same old crap of EQ, DAOC, and all the other leet-d00d games. How sad.
You said everything that I had wanted to on the subject Chessack. I love the dancing profession-the *concept* of it at least. But I can't remember the last time I actually danced anywhere that wasn't a pre-arranged social event, or a mass PA pvp raid (I'm a living, breathing, buffbot in those cases). If you'd asked me a couple months ago if I would ever even *consider* dropping dancing, I'd have looked at you like you were nuts and emphatically said along the lines of 'It'll be a cold day in H e l l when I drop my dancing'.
I've played other games, and I do enjoy doing combat stuff. But what really sucked me in to SWG, what really made it something other than EQ-with-a-Star-Wars-skin was seeing some guy equip a slitherhorn and start tooting out SW1. And you could *dance* to the music. I mean, how cool was that? Especially since I tended to turn any game into a graphic chat room anyway.
I don't *need* to be a dancer to get my socializing. I have guildchat now. I can socialize anywhere I want to without getting treated like a mindless bot, or some kind of suzy cheesecake there to be drooled on, propositioned or virtually-groped.
And if Sony ever gets off their butt to do something about the situation, getting dancing skill *back* will actually be fun like it was when I did it the first time.
Excuse me while I get my coat, I hear it's pretty chilly and I have an appointment with Lucifer...
But everyone has a point when they call it quits.
No, my point hasn't been hit. At the least I'm going to give a little more time. In theory, we've got a new entertainer correspondant coming on soon, so will have a new voice in their ears. Hopefully that will change things.
Though, I've noticed the players were asking for a jedi correspondent, and they decided to get one, and are clamoring to fill it, while we've been waiting 3 weeks for a replacement entertainer correspondent. And as they say, actions speak louder than words.
Things aren't so bleak though. There are still new players coming in - they will fill out the ranks of entertainers if there is a lacking. When I first started, I got a tell from someone who needed healing. It gave me a nice feeling. It has also happened less and less. If there is a shortage, new entertainers will get that again. But right now, the new entertainers are getting met with a sea of zombies, or empty cantinas. When that changes, they will stay and build a new generation of entertainers.
Hmm.. well I agree the process will be slow, however I do think more will come back over time. Slowly to be sure, perhaps more slowly then I even imagine. There may be an outcry of the players when suddenly most the cantina's are empty, I for one will find that sort of satisfying in a way. However if the devs toss me asside and those of you who have stuck with it and go throw in Bots to make the players happy... well then all I can say is don't leave before I can get your email addy so at least we can find each other in the next game we give a try.
Chessack wrote:
They will go onto the forums en masse, and whine and moan and scream and cry and they will outnumber you 10,000 to 1. The devs will have no choice. They have lost the socializers. The people to whom this profession was catered. The socializers are gone, in general, and will not be coming back. They're angry and hurt. They feel cheated and left hung out to dry by having the one profession (entertainment) that was in the game for them, allowed to be turned into another leet-d00d profession. They will not be back, mostly ever, and certainly not quickly. So what do the devs do? They are going to have to either provide NPC healers, give mind wound healing to other profs as well like Combat Medics, or just take mind wounds and BF out of the game. For practical and obvious reasons they cannot allow a situation where 90% of the player base can't get its BF healed.
I don't think they'd go that far... I could be wrong tho, but it will surely be over my dead characters body if they do. first off we need more flourishes..........come on like doing 2-3 per master dacne is really a reason to want to dance much?
and second more dances thank you
Nynna wrote:
Someone mail this thread to a dev please. It summons up how everything is atm in our profession..
I agree.
Why else do they leave it like it is?
it is left this way intentionally. dwell on that.
now dwell on these 3 points:
1)rifleman are one of the most popular combat professions. all of their specials use mind, as such, any rifleman that turns down a buff from you is uninformed, or a fool. i migrate my mind stats to their max, but i gauruntee i will take your buff, as well as a musicians buff, without hesitation. i know no fear with a 2000/2000/2000 mind. do you know the difference between 2000/2000/2000 and 1000/1000/1000 for a master rifleman with a high damage t21? follow one around and see.
it doesn't stop with rifles. doctors, medics, a lot of professions can benefit from our buffs. if i am in combat, and i see someone with 3000 health, 3000 action and 1000 mind (migrated to max) what am i going to shoot at?
"oh but they can use muon"
well 10 minutes later they will be in some serious hurt, whereas if they hadn't been a fool, they would be at 2000 mind for 2 hours.
2)we heal mind. yes, in coronet and theed the importance of this has lessened. but travelling around it hasn't! i get mind wounds constantly. perhaps i have an "ill advised" playstyle, or whatever... but the fact of the matter is, if you fight red con npcs, like nightsisters, you are gonna get wounds. if you travel overt you are certainly going to get wounds. is it nice when you wander into entha or taike's cantina and see someone in there? yes! is it nicer when you travel with an entertainer or have entertainer skills? yes!!
do you know how money it is to have a master dancer at the tuskan fort when you are halfway up your combat elite? either with you or camping back on the north hill? heh, maybe not if your advanced playstyle has you cloning with perfect heath back at entha to make the 3k treck back.
3)lastly, and i've come to the conclusion that this % of the class is actually the minority of the minority, the people who actually are interested in performing.
what other class can do the things we do? we have (perhaps unintentionally so) a very complex dancing system that I have personally seen 1% of the dancing population understand. we can put on some very asthetically pleasing shows. are there venues for it? sure. are the cantinas one of them? HAH i can think of one or two that are. is there even a reason to go? no. do we as a community work on building that aspect of the game? not really, no.
why? because we sit in here and lament about our cantinas. "ooooh, our cantinas. lost to the zombies. boo hoo. help us developers" (if you don't your incompetant, afraid of a firestorm, or due to be stewed). we can't realize that in comparison, our prof works pretty well. it's got some problems yeah, alot of people think it's a joke sure... but so what? are those peoplechaining together flourishes? would they appreciate it if they saw it? uh, no.
this is the last time i'm going to post here i think, because of this /report happycommunity that has supposedly been 'squashed'. but all you "entertainers" can quit, i'm sure as hell not going to, because i'll always need mind healing, i'll always ADORE the buffs and i'll always be interested in actually mastering the dances, afks or no. they sure as hell haven't destroyed my ability to socialize, dance or make money. bummer they did for all you "real" entertainers though.
oh and why do they leave it this way intentionally?
because maybe they think like me. ouch, man that's gotta hurt.
or maybe i'm wrong and they actually are unintelligent and afraid of conflict. you decide.