Dancer Archive
Thread: There's nothing wrong with dancers asking for tips!
Beery wrote:I'd rather have them pissed off and tipping than happy and stingy.
I find it very hard to believe you have ever actually worked for tips with this attitude. It's a well known phenomenon in industries where people depend on tips that ticked off customers do not tip well. It boots nothing to irritate people into giving you 10 credit tips. You'd need 100 of them to equal one satisfied customer for me who tips me 1000 cr. Given your stated tip receipt rate of 1% of all customers, you'd need to see 10,000 customers to get 1000 credits. I can make that in 10 minutes just by being nice to a few people.
Annoyed people do not tip more. They tip less. Yes, you probably shame them into tipping you some pocket change... but you can't make a living on pocket change. I made near enough to buy a house today by being nice and RPing and never once mentioning tips. Doubt you can do that by being a tip-nag.
Beery wrote:
If you're willing to tip, why would you resent being asked to do what you're already willing to do?
People do not like to be nagged. It's human nature. They do not like to be pestered. They do not like to be made to feel guilty. You're doing all of those things by being a tip nag. The fact that you keep saying nobody ever tips you, while my experience is that I make pretty decent tips, and that you nag and I don't, should, I think, tell you something.
But maybe not. Maybe I'm just magic. Maybe guys just like blue-skinned Twi'lek dancers. After all those Lekku are really sexy....
C
Whether to ask/not ask for tips can be situational. Only once have I directly asked for tips, and I made almost 10k in less than 5 seconds......here's how.
Was in the cantina as the only enterintainer there (don't know where everyone else had disappeared to). Was doing the usual dance/interaction patter, and wasn't getting any tips/thanks at all. I was having one of those 'bad days' too, so I thought 'why bother?'. So I sat down, and just chatted on guildchat and in tells with friends.
10 minutes later I had a rather full cantina full of poorly fighter types wanting healing. Comments were flying at me from 'Hey you! Are you gonna dance or not?' to rather more colourful comment. I let these continue for a while, stood up and just said 'You want me to dance? Pay me!'.
Tips came in, I danced and everyone one of those people upon being healed politely /bowed, /thanked me and left.
Sometimes it's not a case of asking for tips, it's more a case of WHEN to ask . 
PS Only ever did this once btw, withdrawing a public service in a public building is not something I condone.
"Sylune is dead on target. Spamming your cantina for tips will p*ss off just as many people as it will encourage to tip you."
I'd rather have them pissed off and tipping than happy and stingy. Players are supposed to tip entertainers - that's why entertainers get paid so little. But 99% of players DON'T tip. That's the problem, and I reckon it's generallythose who never tip who always have a problem with being asked. If you're willing to tip, why would you resent being asked to do what you're alreadywilling to do?
When I first started (which was at release) I would from time to time remind people about /tip. This was because the game was new and a LOT of the people playing did not know /tip existed or how to use it. I was able to stop this after about the first week and haven't asked for a tip once since. I don't have any trouble making money when I dance. Do a lot of people not tip? ya.. don't care. A lot of people do and the guy that tips me 20 credits gets just as nice of a thank you as the one that tips 5000 because I appreciate the gesture. And 1000cr+ tips are not uncommon. Now, I don't dance at the super crowded noob cantinas like Theed. I look for cantinas in forgotten parts of the galaxy where entertainers are hard to find. Is there as much business? no but the ones that are there are very grateful for an entertainer and tip accordingly.
As far as the rl example of a waitress getting tossed around, I've waitressess and have bartended and I know what it's like to live for tips and I know good service. Good service is way more that fast. If it's fast but my food is thrown in front of me and I get attitude if I ask for a refil, the tip will go way down. Now I also know the tip/taxing laws in my area and I know waitstaff has to pay taxes on 8% of their sales so if they do not make at least 8% they are paying taxes on money they did not make. It's deplorable. So if the service is bad I make sure to still leave 8%. But when the service is good (and basic curtesy is part of this) then it's 20% plus. Course I think waitstaff should make minimum wage plus tips so that tipping can truly be a voluntary way to show appreciation, but that is a different story.
Min'Tora Ehi
This is for the few people who still insist that asking for tips is the best way to go, I have a few questions for you..
Do you ever say hello to your customers? Do you talk to them? (Hi! How ya doin? Hows your day been?) Do you THANK then for the tips they do give you?
I am a very sociable person. I chat with absolutly as many people as I can in the cantina at night, I became a dancer to fulfill the social aspect of the game that I love so much. When people walk into the cantina, I try to always say hello, hi, hey...whatever..
When someone comes in regularly, I try to chat a little...not reat long dialogues, but a little. I make them feel comfortable. Sometimes it gets really busy & you just cant possibly chat with everyone...but I always try.
Having said that, I would like to add that I make fabulous tips. I will never get rich simply because I love to buy new clothes & they usually take all of my tips 
But they more than pay for whatever I need. I have found you get MUCH better tips if you just act like you are happy to see everyone, rather than grumple "tip me! tip me! tip me!" I politely tell everyone I group with that asking for tips is not a wise choice, and as Awi said before me, if they continue, they wont stay in MY group for long either.
I dont dance for the creds, truely...I dance for the people. I love to talk & you cant do that as much in the middle of combat. I dance to show off my new clothes, and I dance because in this game it is one of my favorite things.....when you start looking at dancing as a job, then maybe you need to pick up a stick or a gun & go kill stuff. When your frusteration is gone & your fatigue is high, then come back....you will enjoy it more..
I run a cantina, its moderately busy, good flow of regulars every night, plus new people that the regulars bring in with them. I do not ask for tips, nor do i allow anyone that dances or plays there to ask. If a dancer joins us and asks for tips, she is told nicely in group chat that we don't approve of that. if it continues, she is asked to leave.
HOWEVER, i did encourage my medics to ask for tips. Inoticed that they pulled in maybe 10% of what a dancer does in tips. Slightly unfair since their healing actually costs them something. After a couple of nights of customer education the medics as well are starting to make a living wage off tips.
Personally, Tsiella will never ask for tips. She may make an occasional statement that will indirectly remind someone, "Oh thank you So-and-so for your generosity!" (when So-and-so tips her), but it's not her style to ask for tips.
I think part of this is the difference between the way women think and the way men think - a friend pointed this out to me, how our thinking differently affects us in business life. Since dancing is Tsiella's business, I suppose this applies to SWG life as well. She told me that generally, men find nothing wrong with the straight-forward approach, tooting their own horn as it were, "I did X Y and Z, so I deserve this that or the other." Women though tend to believe that other peopel should acknowledge their achievements without being prompted. This may or may not be where the split among the ask for tips/don't ask for tips discussion lies.
As a rl female, I can relate to what my friend told me - I don't like tooting my own horn. I do believe that others should recognize my efforts without my having to remind them day in and day out. I have a number of opinions on that kind of thing. Has it hurt me professionally? I can't say - what I can say though is that I've had the most success and been the happiest while working for female bosses than while working for male bosses. I've felt the most appreciated while working for female bosses than working for male bosses. Is it because of the different ways men and women think? *shrug* Maybe.
So, while I don't think there's anyting wrong with reminding people that we are provding a service, anything more blatant feels like panhandling to me, and I'm not playing a panhandler, I'm playing an entertainer. 
Tsiella wrote:I'm not playing a panhandler, I'm playing an entertainer.
That says it all, right there.
C
Hmmm, asking for tips.
Pesonally I think it's kind of rude and an insult to the customer. During my whole performance I am social, whether it be speech or just emodes. I let the customer know that I am there, and I am doing my job, which is entertaining them. I've seen people slyly request tips -- as in, I hope you're enjoing yourself, remember if you enjoy you can tip -- which doesn't bother me as much...
it's the people that start saying that they are poor and need money etc, etc.
do missions
that simple
*shrugs* dancing is my number one profession -- i'm a master that doesn't care too look for another job. I got tips before I was master -- and you know, I think it all depends on customer service
*shrug*
hope i don't offend anyone..but like i said, if you're that tight on cash, do some delivery missions or something -- everyone else is finding a way to work their wages. I've known real life artists of all type work fast food jobs, etc. to work their way through what they enjoy. why should this be different?
have fun out there guys
from this purple mon cal
--boci--
i feel that sometimes we dancers need to ask for tips. however i don't say plese tip me, or give me money. i say something like 'we need your support, so please all donations will be accepted, thanks for the help.
Ixathra; Bloodfin; soon do be Novice dancer
I never ask for a tip and I love dancing and being an entertainer I never had any real problems making ends meet. But I am stilllooking into other alternatives to make credits, not running missions..
I acually was surprised that a fellow dancer would tell another dancer to run missions. We all know they are a joke and not worth the time it takes to do them.
And I am getting abit curious to some of the statements I seen.. Like.. "It's an entertainers duty to entertain".... I never sen it as a duty or I would stop playing..I just have one thing to say..
Stop being so very serius and have fun
An excellent example of this....
I walked into the Moenia cantina one day, to find a novice dancer there..dancing "popular" in her default bra panties look in the middle of the bar. I had a bit more ENTHEAL 4 to go before Novice Dancer dingage, decided to put off running missions for my money and do some dancing! Asked if she wanted to group, got a "No, I'm trying to make some money here".
Well...ok then /boggle @ that! (thought perhaps she was on an ENT mission at first) So I went off into that corner to the right (when you walk in facing the bar) as it was rather quiet (no one in there at the time yet) since she was in the middle of the grouping of chairs. I also LOVE dancing formal (seems like an asian sword dancer's dance) and the space is perfect without cramping her dance space at all. So off I went, changed into my infiltrator suit (love it for this style) take out a sword and start doing formal.
Soon a few wounded came in and before I could get out a simple hello, Miss Grouchypants "Don't forget to tip!" lol not even a hello..nothing, just "don't forget to tip" So she and I were both doing our thing, eventually I got into conversation with one of the wounded when he commented on how cool the dance was, the threesome were laughing about "dont' go near Vudoo when she's dancing with that sword!!" One of them was a lower medic and they'd heal me up etc. They were leaving and the medic tipped me 1500, I tipped it back saying thank you but the healing was MORE than enough. He refused, sent it back saying it was from them all, they enjoyed the show, the good company. I sent a tell to the rest of the party thanking them individually. Soon more people came in, and Miss Grouchypants would inform them of her desire to have them tip her etc etc.
I'm not sure how many were watching me over her or vice versa, but she would talk to people, did a TON of /flirts and whatnot, reminding to tip OFTEN. At one point about an hour into this experience, the bar got VERY VERY full, and in an attempt to have people stop watching me over her she started to point out to them she was a novice dancer and I was "just" an apprentice, and watching her would give better healing. I was getting wonderful experience, laughing along with those admiring my sword dance and generally having a blast. I was rather annoyed and my face burned with anger at her trying to "down me" and refusing to group, but rather than stoop to her level, I just enjoyed myself. I had a large number of stim packs to heal myself,lowering my downtime on the dance floor and did get a large amount of healing when people were in. I can only "guess" from the comments, conversations and the healing EXP, more were watching me. The tips FLEW in, but I would /tip back anyone who did healing on me because that is payment enough in my books. Every single person received a personal thank you in a tell, a /smile emote and many made it to my friends lists for hunting groups in future from conversations spouting from the private thank you tells.
I never ONCE asked for a tip, nor privately expected it. I'm a combat dancer, EXP is my tip for me because I'd rather be out in the field camps (I know not the case for some who solely dance) but at the end of it all, Miss Grouchypants decided to either grossly mistell to someone or was just being a complete rude jerk by saying outloud "Well I"m leaving this place anyhow, I've gotten 500 credits in 3 hours of dancing"
I had been there just under that time, maybe 2.5 hours and I was shocked looking at my credits (I don't look, keep track or really care) and had made approximately 6k in that time entertaining the troops.
Overall she wasn't rude to customers, she was an "average" entertainer really, mostly snotty to me, refusing to group and that is just plain fine. But her constant reminder to tip seemed to get her absolutely no where.
Honestly, I think it annoys people to no end being reminded or you do in fact receive much much smaller tips.
In responce to Nynna:
acually was surprised that a fellow dancer would tell another dancer to run missions. We all know they are a joke and not worth the time it takes to do them. And I am getting abit curious to some of the statements I seen.. Like.. "It's an entertainers duty to entertain".... I never sen it as a duty or I would stop playing..I just have one thing to say..Stop being so very serius and have fun
*smile* i don't think anyone takes this game more fun than I do, and if you ever see my character you'd understand. Missions, I mean actual missions, not the dancing missions if that's why you mean Sure there are other ways to make money, I just find it quick and easy to hop to a mission terminal and do one. Hehe, I can't remember the last time I had to though
I say it's an entertainers duty because this is a role playing game, I am role playing -- I choose to be a dancer to entertain and heal. If I did not want to do eithor, I would be in a different professions - but that is what Boci loves to do. Like I said, I don't think there is anyone on the Tarq server that has more fun than me - I travel constantly, leaving me to know so many people. I'm always up and running from cantina to cantina, being warmly greeted at everyone. *shrugs* doesn't sound like I'm to serious!
I strongly recommend having a good time, too many people don't! But like I was saying, if you're having a good time and entertaining the customers, you'll get your tips. People would rather tip the cute mon cal in the corner, fully dressed teasing them and having a good time, than the half naked girl beside me that is crying about tips. I'm sure she'd get something, but like I said, I don't remember the last time I wanted for money.
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox *hugs to all you dancers out there* keep your head up, and keep smiling!
from this purple mon cal
--boci--