Dancer Archive
Thread: buffbots in well travelled cantinas
Message Edited by Ikewe on 02-15-2005 09:34 AM
guinnessity wrote:
I wouldn't had start the ent-profession without the ability of using recursive macros, because its no fun at all to press for hours the same function keys....
Yet again we see the assumption that the only alternative to recursive macros is flourishing manually. Guinnessity, see here for tips on making non-recursive macros.
So much of the opposition to ending recursive macros is rooted in ignorance.
J.
Umiio "Umi" Panwanga • Rodian party girl • Bria
Iba'onchab • Gets boarded sometimes • Chimaera
This random sig quote is brought to you by the Flare Sci Fi forums:
Firebird is a Mozilla-based app that someone happened to drop on my computer during a party. Everyone else was using it, so I decided to experiment.
Xyrdre wrote:For those of you who may not know, there is, as has been said earlier in this thread, a Pro/Anti AFK/Bot/Macro All Purpose thread for discussions of these topics. We've had to contain these things to that thread, or it gets very quickly out of hand. Trust me.If any of you feel the need to continue with this line of discussion, please move it there.
First of all: I couldn't find the reference to your mentioned thread
second: the whole thread shouldn't be here then in the first place, as it is covert by the other thread if you consequently follow your train of thoughts
but then I have to ask the question: why is it possible to discuss in totally packed threads only? Discussions are lively things and too much ruling harms.
I totally disagree that we should move to another forum but I do accept your semi-official decision as correspondent.
As I must presume that this is the way threads are handled here I will do without any further postings which will save you and me a lot of time.
guinnessity wrote:
PoetDancer wrote:Buffbots don't play. Its impossible to play a buffbot, because players don't make the sort of decisions buffbots make. If buffbots played, they would act like players act, and not stay in the same place giving out mechanics because its programmed to do so, at all hours, for no other purpose but to make a prime character, guild, or city have an advantage over someone else who doesn't do it.
Unattendence is not a playstyle. It is an abandonment of play. No matter how you slice it, you cannot convince me that logging in and pressing F1, turning off the monitor, and going to the movies is play. It is not. Yet the character left in such a state mimics the functions of live players. That is a bug in the code, is exploitive, and does not give any player an incentive to play a dancer, if non-play can accomplish so much more than play.
I will attack unattendedness, and I will continue to point out that it is exploitive. They do not "play differently." They do not play at all. And I don't want them mucking up the environment on the servers where real players are trying to play.
A working solution is to have individuals and guilds that cannot or will not work within the constraints placed upon them to either go without, or find a player. NOT PLACE A NON PLAYER. Don't tell me it can't be done. We had little difficulty doing it in the summer of 2003.
I will not tolerate cheaters in my game experience. If SOE tolerates cheaters, it only means that SOE doesn't value players.
As I said: I basically agree with you!
Just to reintroduce my idea of limiting macro commands: if they would remove like automatic targeting, adressing tool-bar-slots, and for example the /setperformance command (the others for making other bots impossible) then their wouldn't be buff-bots or other bots because it would still need interaction, right? Or better: remove all macro-commands that normally need action from the player like /accepts, /joins, /setperformance, etc. plus above mentioned
The game is mainly about making money (like it or like it not) which is why you and others have choosen a profession, and the entertainers make money with buffs! This way we would have the widely demanded healing bots which make no or just a bit of money so its not worth it. People like me could still use recursive macros as described above.
And you could take this as compromise unless you don't like compromises and you keep fighting for a long time which can't be fun! I'm not promoting this as the only way to proceed as there are always many solutions, but I believe this could be a solution most can live with as it demands compromises from all and not only from one side.
including myself
I personally like to play a character by myself and not by a machine; others see that differently and thats their good right as it is your right to play the way you want.
And for the record: those that you are calling cheaters are cheaters by your standards. But as you don't define the standards I don't like this term as they play by the rules given to them. I understand your point but this is not the point!
Sorry, absolutely no support from my side there!
Just a few quick comments here. First, if you check around a bit, and the buffbot/AFK sticky that Deila provided is one place to look, you'll see that a lot of entertainers here *do* support the continued use recursive macros. What we don't support, by in large, is a macro system that allows you to leave a character running completely unattended (AFK). That said, the devs have already stated that they are removing the ability to loop macros and AFK in the built-in macro system. There is no compromise in this, they have decided that that is what they intend to do so if you take issue with this decision, you should bring up your concerns with them. As entertainers, this is *not* what we asked for. Several among us even proposed systems whereby recursive macros are allowed, but are identified to the server and simply disabled if allowed to continue for too long without some active input or others simply that certain critcal commands be disabled. What we did ask for was some fix that would prevent our mechanics from being doled out for free by a simple macro. That being said, while some of us would prefer to see a fix that still allows recursive macros, most of us would rather see an end to the abuse of AFK'ing in all forms that we see in the game from bots to spammers to loot campers and even to some even more insidious autonomous creations so I think most of us welcome the end of recursive macros and look forward to it.
As to defining the standard, you're right that no one player can do that. It's the devs who do that (although the players can certainly have an influence), and in this case they have decided that the current recursive-enabled macro system is not in the best interests of the continued health of the game and that it needs to be modified. Unfortunately, like many other changes that need to be made to the game (smuggler revamp, combat revamp, entertainer revamp, etc), it has taken them a while to get to this one, but with the larger dev team they now have and the new commitment to implementing positive changes they seem to be showing. Hopefully it will only be a matter of time.
ibispe wrote:
The buffbots server hundreds and maybe thousands per day, and these are often the 'l33t d3wds' who don't care much for conversation and view getting buffed merely as an inconvience to going out and fighting some more. Are you all prepared to get hundreds of /tells per day demanding mind buffs? I find it difficult at times to keep more than a couple conversations going at once, I can't even imagine what it would be like getting interrupted in PMs or spatial every minute by a buff request. Sometimes I think that many of those most adamant against the ent buffbots can not envision what it will be like if they are gone.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amen!!!!! Someone finally got this on the mark!
I am prepared for it, and I am prepared to dance for as many who want me: Rebel, Imperial; Guild, and guildless.
ButI'm also prepared to say no, walk away, and let them go without if they can't be nice. And if they cannot be nice when I say no, I'm prepared to file harassment tickets and get this sort of player out of our community.
We did not have much of a problem with these jerks at launch. Why? Because they knew that if they were jerks, they'd end up going without. The problem today is that these jerks can get away with being jerks, because they control the buffer. And this only promotes jerky behavior, since there is nomore vehicle to enforcebehavioral norms. Its like what Shug Ninx said in the rulebook on page 81 of the rulebook:
"So keep your tounge in check: the Bothan you insult today might be the only medic around to save your hide tomorrow."
What would Shug Ninx say today in a climate of buffing alts? Maybe something like this:
"So go tell the dancer to screw off. Your buffbot'll be there no matter what you say to her."
I wonder if that last line should be written in the rulebook? After all, its a lot more true than the first statement.
shadowdefender wrote:
I have to say I was discouraged yesterday - I was in Coronet hanging out with some people - trying out a few new dance routines - and couldn't help but notice the HUGE binary load lifter droid barking out a buff bots ad (yes in the cantina where mostly live entertainers were buffing) so its almost impossible to get away from the shadow. Why not put the droid at the CNET starport - how about outside the cantina - why in the face of the entertainers - it felt like a slap.