Dancer Archive
Thread: New Inspirations on TC!
But we will see who is right.
Ultimately they need to ban AFK gameplay, but we all know that won't happen. So, oh well.
C
Doriana wrote:
I've asked this already and I was, of course, ignored, but...
Where are your numbers? How exactly, with backup statistics, did this buff change and affect the process you went through to craft? How do your new products compare to the products you crafted before this system went into effect? How do different resource statistics affect the end results? Are there some cases when it might actually be preferable to NOT be buffed? Do the higher numbers on resource stats actually pan out to be a bland boost in item quality or does the interaction with stat caps require you to modify other areas of experimenting and statistics to produce better results? Have stat caps been reworked to account for this? etc. etc. etc.
Now while you're rolling your eyes, I know full well that you are unable to answer a single one of these questions. I have only seen ONE crafter in this thread come in here with data actually gathered from test center and presenting it to us.
So instead of just complaining about what you ASSUME will happen why don't you try actually testing the system, gathering data and then giving productive suggestions with backup statistics on why it should be tweaked, instead of just crying "get rid of it now because I'm afraid?"
Every crafter that I know, including myself has an Excel spreadsheet that when you plug in the resources, you know what will pop out. There was one major question, whether resources would cap at 1000 or if experimentation will cap at 100% or if both will cap. This has been answered. I know almost exactly every product I make with my current resources and I also know what they look like with the 10% buff.
Its like when the +12 melee speed FS line was added. I knew how the speed equations worked, a quick test on TC to confirm the FS line did add 12 speed and then I knew how I would be affected. I didn't need to grind to TKM and test it, then grind to Master Swords or even test with a Power Hammer and then test with a polearm.
I have given productive suggestions, make it 1%, keep every buff except for the resource buff. GIVE ENTERTAINERS CONTENT!!!
Just don't blow the existing crafting system out of the water. PLEASE listen to the crafters and understand what the 10% buff does.
Panthu wrote:
Doriana wrote:
Please, what are we doing to make sure that this change isn't in vain, and that it has the best chance for success and revitalizing the very stagnant social and non-combat areas of SWG?
I think getting rid of our FS turn in is the only thing that will stop the zombie effect now. Thankfully, our new buffs hardly factor into this problem at all since they can't be AFKed.I'd also like to see some other goodies on the cantinas themselves as a draw though. Maybe the crafters would like some advanced new crafting stations there. Or advertising terminals or posters advertising their shops that could be rented. I think at the very least putting in Banks and Bazaar Terms would be a good idea.I know pretty much everybody would like to see real 3d games offered in cantinas, people have asked for that forever. The only thing that I'm really excited about with the new expansion is that it's the first time content has been pulled directly from KotOR!The cantinas in KotOR were a blast and had everything from card games to holoscreens for viewing tournament fights (which you could enter from the cantina but was in a different area). There were tons of exciting NPCs to talk to and interact with and even a Dance mission for your budding Jedi.I'd just freak out if SWG Cantinas became as cool as KotOR Cantinas... and now that they are lifting content from that game, maybe they can be! *bounces*
What I really think we need to have packaged with this change is to make ALL inspirations active instead of passive.
We need to offer ZERO incentive for someone to leave their AFK bot in public, since the devs obviously won't make AFKing not possible.
Otherwise all this is for nothing. how can I play a 3d game when my graphics card is so lagged out from zombies?
You know I'm not yelling at you, Panthu, and all your ideas here are great. But we desperately need to get the zombies out of the cantinas and into private areas, now that they can level and get their FS exp 100% in private and without interaction and without impacting us.
So I'm begging here, that we ask for all inspirations to be active. This will mean that there is no justification for public bots of any kind, no justification for AFK tip spamming, and no justification for AFKing in public at all. Otherwise, it's all for nothing.
Death_Blossom wrote:After reading this thread and others, my greatest fears over these new buffs has come true. These aren't even in live yet and the hate is already there. Entertainers are going to become slaves again to the masses and buffbots will rise again. Now that the damage is done without it going to live yet, it's irrepairable.After mastering entertainer for a second and finally mastering dancer and musician along with image designer, I felt a massive surge of pride and accomplishment for achieving one of my biggest goals.And it's all for naught.I gave up entertainer on one character, I don't want to give it up on another. But if this animosty and hate continues into live, there will be one less entertainer in the game.
There is absolutely NO hate whatsoever towards Entertainers. I think every single Crafter WANTS there to entertainer content. The problem is that it severely impacts crafting. Whether the buff came from Doctors or Dancers or even NPC's it doesn't matter. Crafters love Entertainers, we want content for them.
However, we don't want that content to come in a form that severely impacts the beauty and complexity of the current crafting system.
All we want is some discussion, not ignoring of the issues we are bringing up.
Panthu wrote:Personally, I think FS conversion is our only beast left and I'd be so glad for it to go away. I really hope they will consider that next.
I don't want to deny playing dancers (like me) the content of FS conversion just because of exploiters when we could do other measures to stop them!!!
I really would cry big big tears if I lost FS conversion. It would mean I would never be able to unlock. That's just not fair.
Chessack wrote:
Panthu wrote:
I heart this Yoss, he's fun and nice. /hi5 Dejah
Yoss is awesome. We love him in our guild. He went on a 2-week honeymoon recently and everyone was so sad without him. Heheh.
Anyone who would name his armor "Yossault" (instead of "assault") armor, you have to know is entertaining.
C
/blushmmore
Circe' Pojia
Heorot wrote:
There is absolutely NO hate whatsoever towards Entertainers. I think every single Crafter WANTS there to entertainer content. The problem is that it severely impacts crafting. Whether the buff came from Doctors or Dancers or even NPC's it doesn't matter. Crafters love Entertainers, we want content for them.
However, we don't want that content to come in a form that severely impacts the beauty and complexity of the current crafting system.
All we want is some discussion, not ignoring of the issues we are bringing up.
Doriana wrote:
What I really think we need to have packaged with this change is to make ALL inspirations active instead of passive.
I have always been an advocate of passivity, and transparency.
But if it is going to be up to us to "grant" a buffing /watch, then I agree.
Make them active...unlike this current system on TC.
Let's be able to apply them as soon as we click on the popup box, and not have to deal with this "/watching for a set amount of time." Why do we even need to have that anymore?
Because it does our patrons no good, who just want the buff to have to sit there waiting for the time /watching to be done. The only thing it does is give them the opportunity to blame us for something--whether or not it is actually our fault. Why do we even have to force them to sit, and wait, when all it does is cause problems for them and us?
And it does us no good to have to entertain people who would rather be out doing other things. As I heard ad nauseum from we dancers concerning BF, we should have people there who want to be there, and not to be forced to be there, because of some stupid procedure that really isn't needed anymore. All it does is create resentment toward us if something goes wrong, and puts our entire functionality in things that are not under our control.
It made sense to have the "/watch for a set time" in a passive system, because our control over our dance was to /stopdance, terminating the "by products" of our dance. But now, we are the ones who are to initiate the procedure from the start, so there is really no reason why patrons have to /watch, and maintain that state for a time.
This upcoming model of "authorized passive application" is very problematic, and very prone to grief. What happens when a patron tips a dancer to click on the box, and the dancer does a /deny after they get the credits?
Or even worse, what if a patron who is out to grief a dancer tips the dancer, doesn't /watch, accuses the dancer of hitting /deny, and calls the dancer a cheater on the boards (which actually happened to me, long ago)? There is too much room for error, speculation of ill intent, and inherent mistrust in a system that cannot even determine who is responsible if something goes wrong.
And frankly, I really do not appreciate the notion that I have been given the responsibility now of providing something that I cannot guarantee I can provide. And no dancer can. All it takes is an unexpected circumstance to occurr--on either side of the stage--to screw up the process.
So while I do not agree that our mechanics should be actively given by us, if we are to have a system that makes it my responsibility to grant something to another player, then I demand the ability to give it.
I am fine with granting mechanics in an active way, or a passive way. But not a confused mix between the two. That just makes things more difficult than they need to be.
But this is not an active buffing system on TC now. It is a complicated passive buffing system, where neither us, nor our audience, can be said to be responsible for granting it. And that will just create the very atmosphere both Meliya Goshi, and I, dread. An atmosphere of hostility, dread, animosity, mistrust, and a lot of people worried about "being screwed."
On both sides of the stage.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-2005 06:08 PM
PoetDancer wrote:And that will just create the very atmosphere both Meliya Goshi, and I, dread. An atmosphere of hostility, dread, animosity, mistrust, and a lot of people worried about "being screwed."On both sides of the stage.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-200505:44 PM
Well, nothing will change then, because this is the system we have now.
The people who have that animosity are going to have it regardless of the system because it doesn't stem from having to watch, or having to go to the cantina, but comes from a fundamental belief that entertainers should not be a part of the game world. We can't fight that with an "active versus passive" mechanics war. We already proved that with battle fatigue -- it was passive, and many, many people still hated ents and told us we needed to be removed from "their" game well before mind buffs were added.
It is just not possible to have a completely passive system. Would it be ideal for us as performers? Of course. But it ain't gonna happen. The devs won't do it, and the player base as a whole won't go for it. It also won't work unless AFK ability was permanantly removed and rigorously enforced. Which again ain't gonna happen.
I gave up long ago thinking we could have an ideal system. The best we can do is a compromise, and I think this system they're putting in now is a very good compromise.
The big flaw, though, is that by leaving any of the mechanics AFKable they're really putting in a half-and-half system of active/passive, and that will never work. We can't discourage AFKers of one level while encouraging AFKers of another level. AFK and ATK are mutually exclusive.
So we really need conformity on the mechanics. We need the basic inspiration to be active, because it just won't ever work for them all to be passive.
But all our buffs on TC are passive.
They just require more from us.
But that popup box to prevent AFK, doesn't make them active. It just makes them very confused passive applications.
People hate that we are in the game. If that is the case, then by all means, we should be thinking of ways to get them in and out of the cantina as fast as possible, and not give them any means by which they can accuse us of "crimes against their playstyle."
But what we all need is certainty. If we are to have the responsibility of granting these things, then it must be within our power to grant them. How can we fulfill this responsibility if our entire economic livelihood depends on things that are not under our control?
All we control is a popup box. But a popup box doesn't buff. A procedure does.