Dancer Archive
Thread: A recap of DEV posts mentioning AFK....
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captainme
Sun Jul 04, 2004 12:10 pm
#14
Tiaga wrote:
Who said this was anything about earning xp, anyway? I sure didn't. Buff-bots usually aren't earning xp and that's what people have the most problem with.
This is the main reason people do AFK entertaining, remember hologrinding? Like I said, I don't like it either, but to make it so people can't do it is wrong. Unless you take away all AFK/offline xp gain, then it's not fair to take away from just one profession or type of profession. You say it's different, but I say it's not. AFK macroing is like not being online. The one problem I have with making it more difficult for buff-bots is, how would they do it? If there is a solution to that, then go for it, but don't make it effect the xp gain. If they did that, they had better do something about a profession that never has to log on, except to train in a skill, to master. Sure it takes a while, but you can do it without anything on the vendor and you don't even have to register with the planetary map, I know this because I have a master merchant. Everytime I logged on and found another skill ready to train, I felt dirty. Taking the buffing ability away from AFK is ok, but to effect all afk macroing when there is still a profession that doesn't have to log on for more than 2 minutes at a time(and yes, I have seen people hologrind merchant) to master is unfair.
DarkY0da
Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:13 am
#15
Updated with new Pex quote.
I can't see how anyone, after reading through even just the devs statements , could think that AFK unattended playing/Buffbots are "ok" by SOE...
DanceRulez
Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:43 am
#16
captainme wrote:
Tiaga wrote:Who said this was anything about earning xp, anyway? I sure didn't. Buff-bots usually aren't earning xp and that's what people have the most problem with.This is the main reason people do AFK entertaining, remember hologrinding? Like I said, I don't like it either, but to make it so people can't do it is wrong. Unless you take away all AFK/offline xp gain, then it's not fair to take away from just one profession or type of profession. You say it's different, but I say it's not. AFK macroing is like not being online. The one problem I have with making it more difficult for buff-bots is, how would they do it? If there is a solution to that, then go for it, but don't make it effect the xp gain. If they did that, they had better do something about a profession that never has to log on, except to train in a skill, to master. Sure it takes a while, but you can do it without anything on the vendor and you don't even have to register with the planetary map, I know this because I have a master merchant. Everytime I logged on and found another skill ready to train, I felt dirty. Taking the buffing ability away from AFK is ok, but to effect all afk macroing when there is still a profession that doesn't have to log on for more than 2 minutes at a time(and yes, I have seen people hologrind merchant) to master is unfair.
There are really two points here I think. First is that Tiaga is right - as entertainers our problem with AFK bots is less about the XP, and really more about how they clutter up cantinas and compete with us for tips and buffs. Our once social environments have now become hives of writhing zombies foaming at the mouth for tips and heals. Not to mention the fact that it cheapens our professions by their ability to completely macro our game functionality, and to potentially do so 24/7 which no ATK player can mimic. The second point is that of intent. The devs intended merchants to gain XP by having them set up decorated shops and well stocked vendors to encourage people to come by and browse their wares. That's where that play style was intended to have its effort - in the setup and maintenance. The reward (XP) comes by getting others to see what you've created and looking at your vendors. Of course with a little help, this playstyle and be cheapened and short-cutted as well with some friends, a browse macro, and an empty vendor (oops - yet another perk from this system of infinite looping macros they've given us). As far as the factories that Tiaga mentioned, I could be wrong but I think that that XP bonus was taken out a while back, but even then the devs intended that to give an XP gain while it lasted. Entertertainers were never intended to gain XP by being AFK for long periods of time. We were meant to gain XP and tips by actively healing and interacting with our customers. That, Rebarb, I think, is essentially what we are arguing for here, and why many of us are against the AFK macros.
Lesia
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:44 pm
#17
Simply put, merchant vendors have no effect on the play style of other players. Whereas, buff vendors have a great impact on ATK player's play style. The more buff vendors, the less likely there will be ATK players. ATK players become unnecessary to the game dynamics.
I agree, I would rather see an elite few AFK buff vendors who would clearly beusing exploit programs.
Nice to know the devs are talking about us.
/flourish
Space_Gunny
Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:08 pm
#18
I can see most of us agree on what the issues is: AFK Buffbots. I don't think anyone really wants afk macroing to go away entirely. From my viewpoint this is a very easy fix. I would suggest our repsective correspondents (Entertainer/Dancer/Musician) simply ask the devs to eliminte the ability to use the /join command. If we make joining a group a totally interactive process (i.e. the only way to join a group is by clicking the yes button on the popup box) this eliminates the ability to afk buff all together. Has this even been suggested? I just recently began tracking the three entertainer forums after starting my newest alt. The only other tweak needed would be to make sure the join button is the one on the right which would eliminate the ability to use the default button command. Just a idea that i think might work without the need to eliminate afk all together.
Kreistor
Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:34 am
#19
Space_Gunny wrote:
I can see most of us agree on what the issues is: AFK Buffbots. I don't think anyone really wants afk macroing to go away entirely. From my viewpoint this is a very easy fix. I would suggest our repsective correspondents (Entertainer/Dancer/Musician) simply ask the devs to eliminte the ability to use the /join command. If we make joining a group a totally interactive process (i.e. the only way to join a group is by clicking the yes button on the popup box) this eliminates the ability to afk buff all together. Has this even been suggested? I just recently began tracking the three entertainer forums after starting my newest alt. The only other tweak needed would be to make sure the join button is the one on the right which would eliminate the ability to use the default button command. Just a idea that i think might work without the need to eliminate afk all together.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly want AFK macroing to go away. AFKing is necessary, macroing is necessary, but combining the two actions together is what's causing so many problems, include some beyond AFK Buffbots.
Also, removing the /join command won't solve the problem. I agree that it will deal a blow, but then Buffbots will switch to the invite method.
Xyrdre
Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:19 am
#20
I think the distinction here is that we don't want macros to go away... just recursive macros that allow for extended AFK skill animating and doling out of thegame mechanics thatare supposed to be the foundation of our revenue.
And yes, I am another one who desperately wants the recursive macro to go away - entirely. The recursive macro is what allows our profession to be cheapened into something that can be fully automated, and provides the tools needed to create buffbots. The only way that recursive macros mightaid a player who is actually playing the game is to free up a bit of attention for chatting, but they are not necessary to be able to do so. The recursive macro has enabled so much that has hurt the entertainer professions, and has not solved any real problems for us, or for any other professions that I can name.
Hmm... perhaps it's about time to write another long-windedstatement about the evils of recursive macros... it's been awhile. 
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