Dancer Archive
Thread: .:Issues and Needs:.
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Torael
Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:58 am
#14
I'm no dancer or musician, but as a heavy combat guy who rely's on buffs, I feel I can chime in constructively, too.
K. First off, I've not had problems with buffs _not sticking_ since they changed the way you got them...just had to learn how to do it properly. But if there are actually problems with them not sticking anyway, I guess you guys would know. 
So, fix that so it's reliable, I suppose. 
So, fix that so it's reliable, I suppose. So, first thing I'd like to see is DURATION matching med buffs. It's extremely annoying to have my 3.5 hour duration med buffs still there with an hour and a half left on them when the blue numbers start scrolling away over my head as the mind/focus/willpower buffs go away. I'm not quite as concerned about them matching med buffs in power...in fact, I don't want them to! That would probably make PvP even more...bleh. 3k focus/willpower just off of mind buffs? Eek.
Next - give us the old system back. So what if some people had figured out how to spam it correctly (or whatever) so that a full duration/full strength set of M/F/W buffs was possible to get in like a minute or two. Or, even if you did it normally, you could watch one person and listen to another at the same time and get a full set in four minutes. That was okay! Now, unless I'm missing something, you have to /watch a dancer, wait the 6-8 minutes, /stopwatch, and /listen to a musician for another 6-8 minutes. In all, you spend 12-16 minutes (or more) getting mind buffed. It takes two minutes to get a set of med buffs. So, what was the problem with people being able to get full dance/music buffs in the same amount of time?
So yeah. There you go, opinion from someone outside the profession who just relies on your guys (or gals) stuff.
Fredcat
Fri Jun 11, 2004 8:32 pm
#15
My top general issues for Dancers (Most apply to Musicians as well.)
1) Change the way /join works! They NEED to make it so /join can not be in a macro. If they allow buffbots they might as well just remove this profession. This is a game breaking problem as far as I am concerned. A real player can be completely replaced by a bot forDancers/Musicians and that should not be allowed to continue.
2)Decide on aFIRM numberEXACTLY how long they want it to take us to buff. Dont base it on the number of flourishs or dance level. I am sick of watching exotic 4, I would like to be able to buff and heal equally as well with any dance (or song). The dance/music should just be for the entertainment value only. The buff and healing factor should be determined byentertainer skill, not by the dance/music itself. I dont care if its ten minutes either because I can buff 19 others for no resource cost or crafting time. This speed buff stuff about spaming flourishs that aren't being animated is cheesy and and exploit IMO. It's clear the devs expected people to actually watch an entertainer.
3)Our buffs should be as good and last as long as doc buffs. Different timersare annoying to people.
4)We could use some kind of group support role. It would be great to take myentertainer on hunting parties as a pure support character. Something like the role bards play in EQ, where their presence grants the whole party benifits while they are performing.
A note on a subject I see debated. I dont think dancers or musicians should be able to buff all three mind stats. If they are going to do that their will be no difference in the professions. The devsmight as well just merge the professions if they do that.
I could care less about missions. I can make 10k buffing one person so high credit missions are meaningless to me. Credits are never a problem once you reach master. Getting to master is easy, the problems are in the lack of rewarding gameplay once you get there.
Thats how I see the state of these professions ATM. BTW, this is my experience on a 100% full time roleplaying entertainer. That is all this character does. I am semi retired until the hologrinders and bots are gone. I see the100% non combat character beingviable and fun, but the bots and buff situations need to be fixed. Until then I will mainly play other professions on other servers.
Lacea Nefo (Lowca)
Master Dancer
Master Image Designer
Master Entertainer
former Master Musician (dropped some points for ID)
Beery
Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:50 am
#16
"I could care less about missions. I can make 10k buffing one person so high credit missions are meaningless to me. Credits are never a problem once you reach master. Getting to master is easy, the problems are in the lack of rewarding gameplay once you get there."
My suggestion for missions isn't about the money, nor is it specifically aimed at Master Dancers. It's specifically intended to solve the problems of gameplay and sense ofcommunity. Dancers need to be able to do more than just buff people for cash, and that's where travel missions can help.
As a retired master dancer, I can assure you that buffbots and AFKers aren't the real problem. The real problem is that Master Dancer status doesn't give a player any more content or sense of community than any otherdancer enjoys. That's why well-paidtravel missions are important. They wouldgetplayers more involved in the wider community. The cash reward is just an incentive to break players away from the grind. It's not supposed to compete with the paysome of us Master Dancersreceive for buffs. It would bethere to help dancers develop a sense of community asthey learned the skill tree and moved around to different places, meeting different players. It's also there just as a way of getting dancers back into the less populated cantinas. After all, no amount of the rewarding gameplay that you desireis going to stop you from performing in the same crowded cantina that guarantees your 10k paycheck. Players need to have some incentive, however small, that will cause them to move around in the galaxy, rather than staying at the one cantina they're most comfortable in. Currently there are two or three massively crowded cantinas - Coronet, Theed, etc. - where most entertainers can be found. Go to Mos Entha and there's no one there. This is a problem. Entertainers should be able to find rewards throughout the galaxy, not just in Coronet and Theed. That is what my proposal is aimed at. Nor is my idea meant to be THE FIX for the entertainment professions. It's just aimed at solvinga fewof the many problems we face.
You say you couldn't care less about missions.Does that mean you don't want them available??? If so, why? Surely it would not hurt. If you have some reason why you think it would be a bad idea, let me know. But if you're just arguing against itonly'because credits aren't a problemonce you reach master' I think you're missing the point. A positive addition to the game doesn't necessarily become a negative just because Master Dancers don't benefit from it. There are many players who aren't master dancers and who don't make 10K per buff. I think you may be looking at this suggestion from too narrow aperspective. Master Dancers who make 10k per buff are not the only players of the game. They are a tiny minority. To make decisions based only on the needs of a tiny minority would be wrong.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-12-2004 07:28 AM
Panthu
Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:09 pm
#17
Anything that improves Dancer, even if it only improves the Profession for some portion of our community, is good in my book. As long as it's not something that would take options away or hurt other Dancers, I think we can all feel safe supporting each other's ideas. 
I never really intended for people to post issues or ideas in this thread, but it's been useful for that too. Good ideas guys, keep it up, I'm taking notes. 
Anjh
Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:04 am
#18
Hi Panthu
Thank you very much for everything you do for the dancer community.
There are some fun, fluffy ideas on this list, however it disappoints me more than I can say that stopping AFK macroing and buffbotting aren't even on here.
Those two misuses of game features are driving people from the profession in droves and causing huge amounts of disrespect among the rest of the player community both directly and indirectly.
Isn't any official attempt at all being made to address those problems?
Panthu
Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:45 am
#19
Anjh wrote:
Isn't any official attempt at all being made to address those problems?
Uh, no, not really. I personally would like to see all healing related Dancer activities ATK only. I polled on it and there was wide support, some would prefer that only Buffing be changed while other passive Ent healing could stay AFKable... many people in the poll brought up the rate of EH XP gain.
TH showed the poll to the Dev team. I also used it again when filling out our Profession write up for TH a couple of weeks ago. Tiaga and NewJedi have both made a big push in the Corre Forum lately.
I hope we will see an improvement in the CB since that will be the time all other Healing will be getting a revamp. I am also hoping we will see an improvement that will benefit patrons.
Anjh
Mon Jun 21, 2004 10:29 am
#20
thanks much for your reply
a thought about benefit to the patrons
#1 complaint by patrons seems pretty clearly to be convenience/accessibility of buffs... if that is true, then a regrowth of live entertaining by reclaiming npc cantinas and stopping buffbotting (the two most-touted reasons that live entertainers feel diminished and leave the professions/the game) would seem to be the fix of most import to both entertainers and patrons in the long run
you have a very tough role panthu,all of your efforts arevery much appreciated
/hug
SalMag
Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:46 am
#21
Im on Kettermor and I never used a macro to master dancing i sat through the whole thing I didnt like it sometimes but I enjoyed it to. What I didnt like is a cantina full of people who arnt there, so I have some Ideas to make the Dancer skill worth keeping.
1. Shorter time to apply mind buffs and/or make them better.
2. More dances.......there is alot of flourishes that are the same so that leaves alot of room for more/new dances
3. Alot of people want exotic mounted pole dancing,,, not shure how that would work but make the game a little more real hehehe
4. The people that do keep master dancer for a long while should become famous like Max Rebo and the band.
5. This is my special request alow the master Talors make the outfit Leia wore in Jabbas Palace in Return of the Jedi that can only be worn by Master Dancers!
Thanks Isroo Ramasi
lifelessdroid
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:17 pm
#22
I did missions once, spend five minutes searching for them, got 2 in a cantina 25m away in bestine. I went in and danced for the duration, i got 16 credits after the group split. So all the afk dancers got my mission money. Right now i can select missions very close to where i am if i refresh enough. Make 2k missions for master dancers and thats what they will do in coronet and theed. I think missions should scale on skill level not be less then the cost of a shuttle for everyone. Should be a type of mission for a troupe of entertainers, don't even need to make the missions pay out too much more, dancing with a musician friend in a lonely espa cantina makes it more fun. And if dancers cared that much about the money, they wouldn't be dancing, Its Just alittle added fun. Npc missions would be fun if they had 2 parts like crafting missions. You go to a cantina and talk to the npc, start your mission and maybe get an extra reward based on your performance/response. I have a collection of cups and bowls and worthless npc quest loot, so i like the idea of something extra.
My main problem is socially, dancers and musicians are buff bots to most people. Some players have whole accounts for that reason. It seams the best way to make a living is afk buffing, and I'm a roleplayer so i wouldn't think of doing it. If we had missions, and people spread out on planets, maybe people wouldn't have to go to one of 3 cities to make sure there was an entertainer then have spam free entertainment. Spreading out entertainers and people will follow.
One thing i would like to say to the developers about dancing and true with everything "fix the bugs before you add the content"
My main problem is socially, dancers and musicians are buff bots to most people. Some players have whole accounts for that reason. It seams the best way to make a living is afk buffing, and I'm a roleplayer so i wouldn't think of doing it. If we had missions, and people spread out on planets, maybe people wouldn't have to go to one of 3 cities to make sure there was an entertainer then have spam free entertainment. Spreading out entertainers and people will follow.
One thing i would like to say to the developers about dancing and true with everything "fix the bugs before you add the content"
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