Dancer Archive

Thread: How much of the 'social' is the gameplay for you?

Ikewe
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:26 am
#14






Vorpaks wrote:

If our skills did nothing, interacted with nothing, produced nothing, provided nothing for us besides the opportunity to sit around and chat then I think that would suck be bad.


If this was Pikeman and something was broken they would fix it. If it was possible to level the entire profession afk they would consider it an exploit and fix it. If Pikeman started the game with limited skills and weapon choices they would expand them. If they took away Pikeman's role in combat they would provide them with a different, equally as useful role. I don't understand the problem. How are the Entertainer professions different from any other professions except in some weird twist of the mind? Provide the tools, provide skills, provide the content.If they are fun the players will enjoy them. If they are broken or exploited the players will complain as we have been doing. In my mind players are social as an expression of the fun and enjoyment they are having playing the game. Provide the fun and the social will take care of itself. This is true for every type of profession. And so what is true for every type of profession is also true for the Entertainer professions.





HOORAY for the Wookiee! Can we hire a strippergram to visit the devs and give them this message? Maybe if it were accompanied by nudity it would carry more weight since clearly just saying it again and again and again and again is meaningless.


<insert naked person here> JUST FIX IT LIKE YOU WOULD ANOTHER PROFESSION! DON'T TRY TO DETERMINE IF IT'S SOCIAL, ANTI-SOCIAL, SILLY, GIRLISH, MANLY, OR ANY OTHER DESCRIPTIVE MODIFIER. JUST FIX IT!!


cheers,


Ikewe





Ikewe, Master Dancer, Shadowfire
When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.


Ikewe
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:39 am
#15

*hugs Panthu and then starts the "Breakfast Club style chanting of "just answer the question." in hopes she'll reveal something important.



Ikewe



Ikewe, Master Dancer, Shadowfire
When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.


Tralmek
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:51 am
#16


Is the term 'social playstyle' even accurate as adescriptor? Is being 'social' the gameplay for you?


The term "social playstyle" is perfectly accurate as a descriptor. I enjoy the "social playstyle" more than any other in the game--it's part of the reason I stay in this game and don't bother with the other MMORPG's currently out there.



Is 'socializing' enough of a gameplay experience for you that it stands alone as something fun enough by itself?


Absolutely, socializing is enough of a gameplay experience for it to be fun in and of itself. Some have said that socializing in Galaxies just means I'm paying $15 per month for a glorified chat room. This game, and the social playstyle amount to much more than that for me.



Is 'socializing' rewarding enough for youthat it can really be called a playstyle in and of itself, or is it more that there's a difference of approach to rewarding gameplay that isfound in the players that make up our community that has been so dubbed as 'social'?


I won't deny that there is a common social spine that runs through all of us in the community, but I don't believe this is something that we have forced into a box called the "social playstyle." Galaxies social playstyle, realized in the Entertainment professions, attracted us all for one reason or another. Many of us came in from other playstyles. I came from a crafting background, was tryingcombatand then rose to Entertainer purely by chance. I didn't really go into the social playstyle to necessarily be social, but the mechanics of the profession drew out my social side.




What other thoughts do you have about the 'social' term, in how it relates to your gameplay experience?


I can see how the idea ofour professions being a social playstylemight ring falsely to some people, but that is the best name for our playstyle. Admittedly, if one took a sampling of everyone with Master Dancer or Master Musician, he would find a largenumber of ANTI-social avatars...mostly because of how many bots/lamers/alts there are out there. However, the history of our professions shows more live people, people who went out and made their living through socialization, drawing people together, getting people to talk, and most of all simply Entertaining people. This was accomplished in a variety of ways, from /register and actively seeking people to heading out hunting or wandering the planets. All of it was in the interest of making a living bysocialization. Allowing, protecting, encouraging, and rewarding AFK "play" has eroded the social playstyle so much that in many eyeswe have become a slave class, around only to serve the combateers.


Rather than discarding the name "social playstyle" why don't we make it our mission to restore our respect in the community and become a truly "social playstyle" again? (First step, get the SOE to actively support live play and eliminate all AFK "play.")




Feeling no connection with the Force since 2003
*feels an outer glow*. The HAWT side is with me
Have a question? Read the Stickies!
Remember: Only YOU can prevent forum fires
!
Official AFKophobe


SFXGenesis
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:57 am
#17






Ikewe wrote:







Xyrdre wrote:



Questions for the community members:



  • Is the term 'social playstyle' even accurate as adescriptor? Is being 'social' the gameplay for you?

I bought a massively multiplayer game so that I could interact with other people. If that's why they are describing by "social" then my answer is Yes. I did not purchase the game solely for an opportunity to "talk" with other people. If that's what they mean then my answer is No.



  • Is 'socializing' enough of a gameplay experience for you that it stands alone as something fun enough by itself?

No. It is a side effect of being a human at the keyboard. There needs to be some other action going on be it healing, shooting, trying to glean information, bartering, whatever



  • Is 'socializing' rewarding enough for youthat it can really be called a playstyle in and of itself, or is it more that there's a difference of approach to rewarding gameplay that isfound in the players that make up our community that has been so dubbed as 'social'?

No it is not. If someone is playing this game and they are not "socializing" then I'd have to wonder what thought process was involved when they looked in the Multi-player category and decided to make the purchase.



  • What other thoughts do you have about the 'social' term, in how it relates to your gameplay experience?

I wish they would stop using it because I think too many people assign their own definition to what it means for it to have a universal usefulness.



And now that I've read the other post as well... let me add this. If I wanted to create and play a character that's a slave I would have done so. I didn't. I created a character with curiosity and a desire to see the galaxy and take part in the Galactic Civil War. If their "grand vision of the social playstyle" is that my character needs to be a happy little slave sitting in the cantina awaiting the arrival of combat players then I can only say &*%$ that! I play on a small server. What the hell am I supposed to do when I'm the only person in the cantina for 2 hours??? The combat player is out there being very social with all his buds and I get to practice adding lighting effects to broken dances and hoping I remember how to greet people when they finally do wander into the cantina. Hooray!! All this time I could have been grinding combat xp to have my very own Jedi and requisite alt bot. Are they going to give me a veteran reward to make up for that?? I should have known they just wanted a bunch of scantily clad slaves they could pull out of the dungeon whenever they wanted some eye candy while theystroked their sabers. Typical. Bloody typical.



Ikewe





Message Edited by Ikewe on 03-11-2005 08:25 AM

edited to add my angry vent at discovering I have wasted a whole lot of time trying to be creative about a profession when the development team couldn't put in the slightest bit of creativity.

edited again because in my anger I'd made careless typos


Message Edited by Ikewe on 03-11-2005 08:44 AM






/cheer


I agree completely. If I want to socialize only, I can do it with my guild, my non-entertainer friends or my entertainer friends outside the cantina. I became an entertainer because I enjoy the service I provide to my guild, my friends and my community as a whole, in addition to the unique social opportunities that the entertainer professions provide, not exclusive of them.


Take away that service, and turn my gameplay into a graphicalchat room, and I'll be dropping ID, Musician and Dancer in a New York minute and never second guess that decision.


My two creds,
Danny


Edit: Bold/Italic portion QFE.

Message Edited by SFXGenesis on 03-11-2005 10:08 AM



Danial ~ Aaronis ~ Aurellius ~ Cotytto

"No matter what your sexual preference, true love is the ultimate fantasy." - Rosie O'Donnell
Tralmek
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:58 am
#18






Panthu wrote:




I love Exploring and am awful bad about sneaking into too high of an area in level based games just because I want to see it. I also tend to wander away from a team if things are going too slowly and get into trouble. (I'm a nightmare on a long raid with lots of downtime, I'm the spaz that keeps running off to pull mobs back to the group to kill while we wait, hehe)






Gee, it must have been you Iwas out hunting with a couple of weeks back...


*Looks at Panthu and tries to imagine her in a newbie marksman outfit outfitted with random composite and bone armor pieces*


hmmm






Feeling no connection with the Force since 2003
*feels an outer glow*. The HAWT side is with me
Have a question? Read the Stickies!
Remember: Only YOU can prevent forum fires
!
Official AFKophobe


Etdentarie
Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:58 am
#19

-Is the term 'social playstyle' even accurate as a descriptor? Is being 'social' the gameplay for you?
Yes, being social is a part of my gameplay. Interaction with other people is why I play a MMO as compared to just a single-player RPG. However, I was just as socially oriented with my master pikeman/master doctor and with Freya. Meaning that I didn't just create her because I wanted to sit around and talk to people all the time

-Is 'socializing' enough of a gameplay experience for you that it stands alone as something fun enough by itself?
Yes, I find socializing extremely fun. If I didn't then I would spend all my time dancing in empty cantinas rather than going the highly populated areas.

-Is 'socializing' rewarding enough for you that it can really be called a playstyle in and of itself, or is it more that there's a difference of approach to rewarding gameplay that is found in the players that make up our community that has been so dubbed as 'social'?
No, I want my profession to have more of a purpose than to just sit around and socialize. If that's all I wanted I have MSN, ICQ and ventrillo. All free downloads. I don't pay $15 a month for a glorified chat room.

-What other thoughts do you have about the 'social' term, in how it relates to your gameplay experience?
I crave roleplay and I crave interaction with other people, however, that's not all I want to do. I know plenty of other hardcore roleplayers, whom are combatants, who seek out other people for interaction and a chance to further their storylines with other people. They all have other purposes aside from that though. I pay the same amount of money that they do and I feel entitled to also have another purpose. As I said before, if all I wanted to do was sit around and talk with people I would utilize any of the dozens of FREE programs that allow me to do it.

Message Edited by Etdentarie on 03-11-2005 12:00 PM



Freya
Dancer/Musician/Image Designer
Dancers do it on their toes/Musicians do it with instruments
Image Designers do it with everyone
Esharra
Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:26 am
#20






Another SEA here...


The term "social playstyle" is accurate insofar as it is applicable to a game element that is designed to enhance the enjoyment of non-combat game time. Socialization being the key descriptor differentiating MMOG play from the single & multi-player game genre, it is safe to assume that many MMOG players prefer a game with social elements. In MMOG where there is no design element deliberately providing social content, players create content to fill the gap, so to speak. Design elements oriented toward social enhancement, such as the Entertainer professions in SWG, provide a backbone for player created non-combat content and greatly enhance such.


If by "social playstyle" the developers of SWG intended to attract or satisfy a "player group" who's only interest in subscribing was to participate in a virtual chatroom environment within which they would spend their in game time simply conversing with like-minded others in the closed arena of a group, I would see this as a waste of development resources on a non-game, non-competitive, online activity better left to AOL. This "social" online multi-user participation does not contain the challenge, achievement and reward elements required to be considered gameplay.


The challenge accepted by the SWG designers when they embraced the concept of creating "social professions" in their MMOG was (is) in how to create challenging and competitive gameplay for those who would choose these professions. PvE play could be provided through challenging quests and missions and PvP play encouraged by providing tools with which players could compete to make their performances more attractive, interesting and provocative than another's.


"Socializing" in and of itself, while an experience (and often enjoyable) that can be found in MMOG, is not "gameplay", imo. While I do enjoy socializing with friends in SWG, I have noticed that those with whom I most frequently socialize are those whom I first developed relationships with here on the forum and maintain relationships with which have extended far beyond the boundaries of the game. But those relationships are not the limit of my SWG gameplay. I enjoy and seek out opportunities to overcome challenges in a competitive MMOG environment. As my work environment contains highly aggressive elements, I am not as attracted to combat as I am to lessviolent forms of competition.


Frankly, I have always thought "social profession" a limiting and unfortunate misnomer that contributes to misunderstandings of our gamestyle and competitive natures.

Message Edited by Esharra on 03-11-2005 12:44 PM



Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Akaara
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:34 pm
#21

Chessack some very good points. I often wonder why entertainers and dancers are limited to cantinas only for their profession. As a tailor I could be wandering tailor if I so wanted. I think the ent professions are the only ones limited to cantinas (or camps). Gotta get them out of the cantinas and free them all!



_____Chiana_________________________
JEDI ELDERCL 90

Sying ~ Master Entertainer

Nikeesha YMaster Tailor

Chessack
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:39 pm
#22

That's one solution. The other is to provide some reason to make players come to us. For example, entertainers should be the information-brokers of the galaxy. NPCs with clues to where to find that elusive bounty might well show up in the cantina and give the clue only to a skilled dancer who makes them relax. Following that, the player looking for the clue would need to interact with the dancer. This serves two purposes by (1) giving us a use in the game beyond just rote healing, and (2) making interaction have an actual purpose.

Now they'd have to be careful not to make it frustrating (as in, if you can't find a live dancer you can't continue your quest -- that would suck). But there should be some way of maybe making the quest quicker/easier/have fewer steps if there is a dancer there to help give you clues. I totally envisioned my dancer being like this and would love if they provided some way to actually do it.

C

Message Edited by Chessack on 03-11-2005 01:40 PM



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Dejah Thoris
Dancer, Musician, Image Designer
Kor Spera, Corellia, Naritus
Akaara
Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:50 pm
#23






Chessack wrote:
That's one solution. The other is to provide some reason to make players come to us. For example, entertainers should be the information-brokers of the galaxy. NPCs with clues to where to find that elusive bounty might well show up in the cantina and give the clue only to a skilled dancer who makes them relax. Following that, the player looking for the clue would need to interact with the dancer. This serves two purposes by (1) giving us a use in the game beyond just rote healing, and (2) making interaction have an actual purpose.

Now they'd have to be careful not to make it frustrating (as in, if you can't find a live dancer you can't continue your quest -- that would suck). But there should be some way of maybe making the quest quicker/easier/have fewer steps if there is a dancer there to help give you clues. I totally envisioned my dancer being like this and would love if they provided some way to actually do it.

C

Message Edited by Chessack on 03-11-2005 01:40 PM



That would be really cool! To be a part of a quest or mission or have information for either rebels or imps. That would be alot of fun to play an important role like that... maybe have an impact on the GCW.




_____Chiana_________________________
JEDI ELDERCL 90

Sying ~ Master Entertainer

Nikeesha YMaster Tailor

Groovymarlin
Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:18 pm
#24

* Is the term 'social playstyle' even accurate as a descriptor? Is being 'social' the gameplay for you?

No. I think "social" is a crutch that we've developed to describe what it is that sets us apart from the combat professions. What we do is more than socializing. It has elements of healing, service, combat support, and creativity. A combat character can sit in a guild hall or cantina and talk to other people. He is "socializing." Yet we wouldn't say that he is engaging in the "social playstyle." Everyone (well, almost everyone) in an MMOG socializes.

* Is 'socializing' enough of a gameplay experience for you that it stands alone as something fun enough by itself?

No. Socializing is something that I do while I engage in our gameplay. It's not enough. If all I wanted to do was socialize, there are plenty of places I could do that for a lot less than $15 a month. The parts of our gameplay that I enjoy include healing and providing a service, being needed, and being sought out for my services. Nobody needs to come to me just to be "amused." Combatants are amused by their combat play. However, if they find themselves enjoying the atmosphere that is created when they come to me for my services, and they keep coming back, sometimes even when they don't need the services, that's a bonus.

* Is 'socializing' rewarding enough for you that it can really be called a playstyle in and of itself, or is it more that there's a difference of approach to rewarding gameplay that is found in the players that make up our community that has been so dubbed as 'social'?

See my answers above. No, I don't think socializing is a playstyle in and of itself, at least not in this game. Well, maybe it's a playstyle, but playing an entertainer is about more than just that.

* What other thoughts do you have about the 'social' term, in how it relates to your gameplay experience?

I frankly grow weary of being labeled "the social playstyle." Socializing is just one element or component of the playstyle that encompasses entertainers. There are so many other things that make up being an entertainer. Combat support, healing, service provider, dress-up, roleplaying, creating songs and dances with the limited tools we have, etc...there are lots of other parts to our playstyle.



La'lepa Ofo

Master Dancer :: Master Swordswoman :: Force Sensitive
AFKing is not entertaining - support real entertainers

KenjiTokugawa
Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:40 pm
#25






Xyrdre wrote:



Questions for the community members:



  • Is the term 'social playstyle' even accurate as adescriptor? Is being 'social' the gameplay for you?


  • Is 'socializing' enough of a gameplay experience for you that it stands alone as something fun enough by itself?


  • Is 'socializing' rewarding enough for youthat it can really be called a playstyle in and of itself, or is it more that there's a difference of approach to rewarding gameplay that isfound in the players that make up our community that has been so dubbed as 'social'?


  • What other thoughts do you have about the 'social' term, in how it relates to your gameplay experience?







In all honesty, I picked up the dancer profession more forthe visuals. If the devs decided to make all dancers deaf mutes, I would still play one. It's not that the "socializer" game play doesn't appeal to me, its just lower on my list of stuff to do in game.


On a side note, I took that Bartle test and I was an SEA (but the S% and the E% were the same).




Jas' --- Jundland Wayfarer
"Once a Ranger, always a Ranger"


Shaizann
Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:57 pm
#26






Xyrdre wrote:



Questions for the community members:



  • Is the term 'social playstyle' even accurate as adescriptor? Is being 'social' the gameplay for you?

It's not really an accurate descriptor in that it uses a term that means different things todifferent people. For me it means interacting with customers in a cantina and my fellow ents by engaging in friendly banter. The same sort of banter one encounters in an RL bar. (like Javier described)


For the purpose of my feedback to these questions from my correspondant, that is my definition of social. In that context, being social is part of my gameplay.



  • Is 'socializing' enough of a gameplay experience for you that it stands alone as something fun enough by itself?

No, I want to be connected to the non-entertainer players. I don't want the entertainer professions to be decoupled from the rest of the game. I want a game mechanic (like BF and buffing) to be there to keep us intertwined. However, I want that interaction to be fun on both sides of the coin. Right now this is horribly broken by passive haling and AFK bots etc. I want the non-ents to look at the Cantina as a cool place to spend their 'down time' and do something fun aside from their primary role. I want to be the profession that possese the tools to make that happen.



  • Is 'socializing' rewarding enough for youthat it can really be called a playstyle in and of itself, or is it more that there's a difference of approach to rewarding gameplay that isfound in the players that make up our community that has been so dubbed as 'social'?

If we consider the class of persons that engender a good fluid social envronment the social classes, then yes, it is a playstyle in and of itself. However, I don't think the social professions are to a point where this is the case. I don't think our liks to the non-ent world are functioning properly.



  • What other thoughts do you have about the 'social' term, in how it relates to your gameplay experience?

Like others have noted, trying to categorize us from only one portion of Bartle's ideas is not a good idea. This goes for all players and playstyles. Everyone is a bit of a mix somewhere along the line. The players of the ent classes tend strongly toward the social style, and the developers in my view should look to ways to strenghten our mechanics to others to allow for more interaction with them, not less. What we seek is interaction, we need more reasons to do so that are fun for ent and non-ent alike.










Shailas V. Zann
Elder Grand Master Entertainer



"Guess what!?! I gotta fever!....And the only prescription is more cowbell."
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