Dancer Archive

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Panthu wrote:

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SmedleyLlama wrote:

Now be fair. Most didn't know anything about this until two days ago and then were told it was already on TC. The reaction was about what you would expect given the situation.

Since then there have been a lot of people floating very good ideas around. The problem is that the Devs make their move thenare surprised bythe reaction, rather than just asking for ideas in the first place.

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They did ask, here.

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Would have been nice if they had made that post a little more public so the people who would be affected by the buffs could have givenfeedback.

I think the reason for the mass panic and multiple posts across forums was simply... going by recent history whats on the TC seems to go live very quickly good or bad.

I think its a fair compromise, although really each profession should be looked at and given buffs that are appropriate to their crafting needs. Of if they really as a profession don't want a resource buff thenmaybe analternative buff.

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Chessack wrote:
Hey Eshie, I was thinking about this and... what about scaling it? For example, a 1% buff is pretty decent on a 900+ resource (950 to 960, almost), but is useless on a lower one (500 to 505 = who cares?). So what if they scaled it along these lines...

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This looks nice at first glance. But:
If you use 500 resources in the first place, you'll never get a great product. So there are two reasons why you would use it:
a) You just don't have anything better. Then 2% more is 2% more. 500 is 510. Its not much but its a bit.
b) You use a 500 stat resource, because the cap for the needed resource is somewhere near 550 and there simply is no better stat available anywhere.
But then 550 is interpreted as 1000, and 500 is equivalent to 909. 510 would be 927. Your idea of 5%, resulting in 525, while it sounds great, would push it to a "real" value of 954.

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PoetDancer wrote:

Of course, the crafters against our resource use buffing would like to believe that they earned the rewards, when in reality they were just at the right place, at the right time. I imagine in a sense, the slot machine jackpot winner earned their jackpot as well. But I wouldn'tsay it was due to hard work. It had more to do with being at the right machine, at the right time.

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Have you surveyed or harvested significantly? I don't but my friends do. They do put real effort into it. First is watching for new spawns, either through surveying widely or the boards. Then there is locating a good spot early enough to get harvesters down before the spot is covered. Often you go to very unfriendly locations to do this and we all know that artisan's don't survive so it can take a group to get them there.

Personally I hate crafting and surveying, I avoid it at all costs. However I do know, by working with my friends in my guild that gathering good resources isn't just simply a random shot. There is effort in making sure you locate a spawn spot and get your harvesters down in a timely manner.

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PoetDancer wrote:
Of course, the crafters against our resource use buffing would like to believe that they earned the rewards, when in reality they were just at the right place, at the right time. I imagine in a sense, the slot machine jackpot winner earned their jackpot as well. But I wouldn't say it was due to hard work. It had more to do with being at the right machine, at the right time.

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Have you ever spent any amount of time harvesting any resource?

Resource gathering is one of the most dangerous, difficult, and time-consuming tasks in the game. It is a bit easier with JTL, but still, if you are a high-end crafter, resourcing takes a DAILY commitment of at least half an hour, and you could spend over 10 hours a week or more moving harvesters around and searching for a decent concentration.

/nod

That's why I never was a crafter... not even on TC (where started a droid engineer once). It's simply not worth it.

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Exterminans77 wrote:
Its called diminishing returns. Its used thru out the game. Thats the way most skill mods work. The more speed mods you get the less they increase your speed. So in essence, you're punished for advancing.

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I understand how the game works and there is a big difference between skill mod diminishing returns and resource buff diminishing returns.

Diminishing returns on skill mods are so that one level 80 toon, is close or relatively close in power to another. Otherwise everyone simply maxxes out speed and maxxes out dps. One CL 80 toon takes relatively the same effort and work as another CL 80 toon and both should be about the same power. A TKM / Swordsman should be relatively as useful as a Rifleman/Pistoleer.

Hoever, with resource gathering there is no "cap" on the time and effort that go into harvesting and gathering materials. Someone who spent 100 hours doing it, should have better resources than someone who spent 50 hours doing it.

Someone who is an "A" resource gatherer, should be better off than a "C" resource gatherer. The idea of diminishing rewards is basically telling the "A" people that they don't need SOE's help and don't deserve anything, but that the "C" people are special and even though they have poor resources, oh you deserve to be special also.


The game is still a game, don't lose sight of that. Its about fun. Its not real. Some lose grasp of that.

Of course its still a game. Civ 3 is a game and Candyland is a game. If SWG is pretty damn close to Civ 3 in complexity, don't FORCE me to play Candyland, just because people want an easier game to play.

The thing I don't like with the resource buffs is that it is yet another thing I need to do before I craft. Even if it is not adding that much if it do improve stats I feel the need to get it because I want my products to be as good as they can possibly be.

When I need to craft I then have to go to any populated cantina to find an ATK entertainer. This might be hard since I am in europe and playing on a US server (and wone with a small population).

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Bermag wrote:

The thing I don't like with the resource buffs is that it is yet another thing I need to do before I craft. Even if it is not adding that much if it do improve stats I feel the need to get it because I want my products to be as good as they can possibly be.

When I need to craft I then have to go to any populated cantina to find an ATK entertainer. This might be hard since I am in europe and playing on a US server (and wone with a small population).

One thing that could make it easier would be if it was possible to make a recording or something and "play it" when I need to get a buff at a different time. To avoid mass production of recording maybe this should be personal only and you can only make one during one buff session (let say when you watch/listen you start the recorder and get one recording). Then I would get onebuff for my current crafting session and another for another time. Maybe it should be possible to do several recordings by repeating the buff session.

Recorder could be another thing for crafters to make as well.

There is also the problems for those with more than one crafting profession (artisan + chef for example)

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I am surprised we went all of two days without someone bringing up "but I can't find a live entertainer" in this or another thread. Thanks for bringing up that albatross, we've missed him. We call him "Lefty" and he is our mascot.

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Heorot wrote:
The worse your resource was, the more you would be rewarded. Thats like saying, ok the A students, you keep your A, but the C students, we feel bad for you, so you get to have a B for free...

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That's a complete mis-representation of how this would work and, given how knoweldgable you are, I think you must know it.

Even a 100% buff on a 100 quality resource would only bump it to 200, and I'm not suggesting that.

Remember that a 900 quality resource is 9 times better than a 100 quality resource, so a 1% buff at 900 = +9, while a 10% buff at 100 = +10. I.e. it is very similar to adding a fixed amount rather than a percentage.

The idea is... poor resources are always going to be poor. Even a 100% buff is not going to help you in the 100-200 range.. it'll still suck. And at the very high end, well, it's so good that it can't get much better. In the mid range... is it really so incredibly unjustifiably awful to bump a 500 resource up to 525? Please.

So the idea is... poor resources stay poor, great ones stay great and retain their relationship (980 remains better than 950, etc), but mid-range ones get a bit of a buff. If the intention (as stated) is to help the new and up-and-comming crafters without harming the "high end" game for the masters, this would do it. Newbs can get their hands on 500-700 resources easily enough, and this would buff their resources enough to be marketable without doing anything like pushing things past the cap or ruining the masters' end game, because a 700 resource wouldn't come near a 990 still.

C