Dancer Archive
Thread: public apology
Panthu wrote:
Some devs are scared, actually scared to talk to Ents. It always really bums me out when I hear that... I've always thought of us as fun party people, I hope one day the community relations team and other red tags will be able to see us that way too.
I know Eshie has made a lot of head way in looking approachable and I think it's really going to pay out for us in the end. I know it was something I really struggled with when I was in there trying to get us heard. The fact is though, we have to look open and cooperative... and able to be pleased before they will ever feel safe talking to us.
Question about this line of thought.
We have been the full cycle of all emotions on our issues, and we still manage to get ignored. However, other professions will lash out with all the fury they can muster, and get all the attention in the world. I'm not a developer, so I don't know if there is something different in their makeup from mine, But, I can safely say that I would be more than ready to listen to entertainers than I would most of the combat profession members, purely for the fact that we seem to be a hell of a lot more reasonable. Our issues started out vocalized with professionalism and respect, but only after months and months of being ignored has it become laced with frustration and ire (and is still generally ignored.)
Speaking from a viewpoint where I had to deal with people on a daily basis in some of the absolute worst situaitons you can put a person into, I can assure you that you would get a lot farther with me by being the way we started out with our issues, polite and respectful.
I fail to see where entertainers, as a class, started out not being open and cooperative. It's only after so long of completely ignoring our issues, breaking promises, and completely blowing our issues off that has resulted in some of the posts that we've seen here. Any person has a point at which they break...and some have gone well past that point with the apparent apathy of the developers toward our situation. I'm not insinuating that the correspondent's we've had didn't do their damnedest to get those issues in front of the people that needed to see them, because from what I've seen, all our corrs, past and present, did or do a great job. The communication loop has broken, and it's not on the corr's part that it has.
"We're listening" can only be said so many times without resultant action before one begins to believe that the opposite is true.
Panthu, I won't discount anything you have said. However, and I am going to surmise that this issue is a long standing one with the developers in the first place anyway, when things get to the point where people are lashing out, the last thing you want to do is completely ignore them and blow them off....Trust me, it only makes things worse and destroys any credibility you may have had to that point.
You can only look at the replies and statements made from some of the long-term addicts to this profession to see the truth in that. Anything that looks as if it's going to be pushed our way is met with distrust and sometimes outright derision. I'll admit, I've had my moments of despair, but I do try to keep as much of a positive attitude and ardent defense of this profession as I can. But even I (and known for giving up only when there is absolutely no hope left) am starting to feel like it's all for nothing.
I guess, now that I think about it, this almost sounds as though I am supporting something that is counter-productive and not in our best interests. But, in the words of a comedian, "I can't say as I like it, but I understand."
Basically put, someone needs to give. Either us or them. It's not going to be easy for either party to do, as it's human nature to allow things to devolve to this state. (And being an ex-police officer, I've seen this time and time again and it never comes out good if allowed to persist.) The ironic part of all this (and maybe it's to our detriment, I don't know), is no matter how long and hard we beg, cajole, plead and outright get mad, we still hit those keys night after night. But, the number of open minds and open hearts are dwindling fast among the entertainers, and I'm sure there's going to come a point where they won't have to worry about fixing any of the entertainer professions because there won't be anyone playing them out of frustration.
About apologies, well...
It was never my intention to cause any bad feelings or attack or offend anyone personally. If that was the case after all, then I would like to offer my apologies to the persons involved. There is a great community on these entertainer boards, and I respect anyone's opinion here.
This apology is sincere and heartfelt. It is also the only one I will ever offer on this matter.
I made this request not out of spite, or as a joke, but very deliberately, and I stand by it and will not retract it. It was and still ismy conviction that we have nothing substantial to expect from the current developer team. Some radical change on their side would be required. When I said "new dev team" that wasn't necessarily meant to be taken literally (and anyway, I know that's not practical), but at the very least a complete rethinking of their design philosophy regarding entertainers would be required.
Once again, I have to give kudos to Warryyr for sayingit better than I ever could, especially the parts I highlighted exactly express my feelings about this:
Nothing to add to that.
Warryyr wrote:
If the Devs are so thin-skinned that your first item on the list made them so upset as to ignore the rest of that fine collaboration of yours, then the item in question just mighthave beenan acceptable request in the first place.
I saw a lot of "if you want the Devs to help you, then be nice" posts. The truth is, no matter how nice and sweet or downright nasty we are, the Devs will do what they want to, and when they want to do it. If they abandon or alter fixes and needed improvements to a profession because those players aren't nice to them, then there's no hope for this game because it's being run by children. I see no reason to be kind and gentle, and falsely respectful, when I've paid for almost 1/2 of this year's subscription fees and in fact seen my Entertainer gameplay experience take a nosedive - and the solution thus far - /covercharge. That's right, charge those people who visit you, so that they look for the cheapest nearby Entertainer, buffbot or not, or the always on, always free buffbot. I find it very impersonal, and something that will likely be rarely used anyways. I would much rather have had them spend their time on the elite profession buffs that continue to be useless in our game, as we still have our functionless mind enhancement +100 mod. That, my friends, is shameful to have in any MMORPG. They could have at least had enough respect for us to remove it or change it to "to be announced" in the skillsheet. Gaining skills that are obsolete has no place in an MMORPG.
In other words, no need to apologize, I'm at a very high frustration level, and I wouldn't think the Devs should expect any less from some of us, given how things have turned out for us so far.
And if the /watch and /listen bug isn't really gone, the rage in this Wookiee will rise again.
Anyways, sorry if this doesn't seem positive, but to be honest I've seen nothing very positive going on with Entertainers lately, and until I see any glimmer of hope besides some Dev pandering to our desires for the removal of AFK (which looks to be not happening this month at this point, don't I feel the fool for bothering to report on it, now), I will continue to be bitter and skeptical towards this Dev team.
They've given me little reason to trust them lately. And I hold them accountable for all of the wonderful things these Entertainer professions deserve to have in this game, and the incredibly versatile and mandatory contribution to the game's community we should fulfill by proudly flying our Master Dancer, Master Musician, or Master Entertainer tag.
EDIT: Missing letters and stuff. Blast these infernal Wookiee paws.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 05-26-2005 11:59 AM
In closing, just let me reply to a few of Panthu's comments (sorry for possibly taking them out of context)
Panthu wrote:
Asking for a "new dev team" is not a reasonable request.
Probably not, but then, where do you draw the line at being "reasonable"? And do you even think this distinction is ours to make? I can only repeat that it was a serious and well-considered request from my side, and I don't think more than that should be required from us.
It is outside the scope of player feedback that is useful.
There I disagree. When players come out and say to the devs "I do not feel myself/my professionwell supported by you, because I do not think that you are up to the job. So far you have not proven yourself sufficiently competent for working on this." then that is potentially extremely useful feedback to the powers that be - IF they decide to take it seriously.
Any personal attack on any of the devs, the very people we are trying to appeal to, makes no sense. It is counter intuitive.
Well, if they saw this as a personal attack in the first place, then that kinda proves my point at least to me. See Warryyr's comments above.