Dancer Archive
Thread: TH's further comments regarding removing recursive macro & healing BF
Erawia_D wrote:
I think so much of the grief of the last two days could have been managed by a few simple lines in his initial announcement about working with the entertainer community to address these concerns.
Almost all the players who have set up alt accounts for buffbots don't know and/or don't care about the professions of entertainers; buffbots don't care that they've bypassed a service sector and part of the in-game economy. Buffbots don't care about the trickle-down to the artisan professions when buffbots don't buy clothing Please don't assume we don't care about how our buffbots look, I actually buy clothes and such to make our guild buffbot look proper. Buffbots don't care about the new players learning that all entertainers are AFK buffbots and being surprised when the entertainers are ATK There's so many buffbots now because of the low numbers of dancers/musicians. Player city actually hurt the entertainers the most. Remember when AH, Bestine, even the non-populated npc cities on Tatooine actually had a couple of entertainers (and they weren't afk, this was way before player cities). I actually remember a entertainer that loved dancing in Mos Entha, rarely any visitors, but it was her home. I rarely saw her anymore.. Buffbots don't care that AFK entertainers in cantinas are no longer a source of information and knowledge, particularly for new players or players still learning their profession I live in Stella Vicus majority of the time, I've had people visiting the city, even new players. The service is there for people who have a hard time (especially late at night) to find entertainers to heal them. You ever been to the pirate outpost, and imperial outpost, AND even the mining outpost on Dantooine? You're telling people they should spend 3k or so just to shuttle back and forth to heal up (don't forget tipping the atk entertainers). You talk about new players, yet new players can't even afford this much when they first start (and they're usually the adventurous type. Buffbots don't care that the game has been transformed from being about the journey to instead being about how fast you can get to master. Very untrue, I got a master musician and entertainer. It's mostly a social profession. If I really wanted to get social, I could play Sims online. It was a fun profession, but it gets tedious and boring. I even roleplay interacting with people and such, but even that has it's limit.
So much has been lost by the ability to have this entire profession be done AFK. Actually hologrinding, and player cities is what hurt the profession the most. If this is implemented, majority of the player cities will be ghost town mainly because some of the key things were buffbots. Majority of the people will continously hang out in Coronet and Theed, the main focal point in SWG since those are the 2 key populated area. This is just going to make it worse. I'm sorry but I don't see what this will solve. You say that the AFK bots are what's hurting the players. It isn't. I have high respect for entertainers atk and will tip them 1k if they're atk). Those are the people I look out for first. If there aren't any, then I get healed by an AFK entertainer, but NO tips. Why should I tip someone that's afk? It's nice they're there, but unless they're ACTUALLY atk, then I won't bother, not like they will know. So please, don't use AFK entertainers as the main cause of this, IMO it's actually the player cities, and the fact that it gets repetitive (Entertainers really need a lot of love, it's a fun profession like I said, but it gets repetitive.
BovineX wrote:
M dancers/musicians don't stay in cantinas. you go hang with your guild/friends. yes, you are still aviliable to your buddies, but the a vast, not teribly social numer of toon's your gone. leaving a vacume that only gets filled by buffbots. you got bored, and rightly so, sitting in the cantina with skill points unused.
Ever stop to wonder WHY that is? There are a couple of reasons.
1. The "M Dancer" or musician is a "utility" character -- whether on a primary account or not, he/she is a master only for the function of it, not for the profession and the entertainment per se. Such people will NEVER stay in cantinas. The same could be said of M. Crafters who don't bother to stock a vendor (I know of some), M. Docs who never buff anyone but their guild mates (my guild used to have one), and the like. This is not solved but exacerbated by macroing because AFK macroing allows people who would never even consider the profession to do it, master in a week, and leave, never to be heard from again. If there were no AFK macroing allowed then we'd lose them, but they're not helping most other people anyway (as you point out) so it's no big loss.
2. The "M Dancer" or musician is a true perfomer and can't stomach the zombie graveyard into which most pubilc cantinas have become converted, and/or gets bored by 100% empty cantinas nobody ever enters because all the performers are AFKing in coronet (so why go to Tyrena, Kor Vella, etc)? I tried doing Kor Vella a few times the last few months. After staring at an empty room playing songs to nobody and dancing for the NPCs for an hour each time, I gave up and went back to my player town. I'd rather be in the public cantinas but it's useless if there's no one there. And I'm sure as heck not gonna hang out in a lag-fest area like Coronet that is full of zombies.
Get rid of the AFK zombies and the true performers -- who are the only ones you could ever count on anyway after they mastered -- will come back and we will be there for ya. I promise.
C
BlackEdge wrote: (IN YELLOW)
Erawia_D wrote: (IN WHITE)
. Buffbots don't care about the trickle-down to the artisan professions when buffbots don't buy clothing Please don't assume we don't care about how our buffbots look, I actually buy clothes and such to make our guild buffbot look proper.
How often do you go out shopping? I do once a week. I like changing style, seeing what new things I can come up with. What about you?
Buffbots don't care about the new players learning that all entertainers are AFK buffbots and being surprised when the entertainers are ATK There's so many buffbots now because of the low numbers of dancers/musicians. Player city actually hurt the entertainers the most.
Theres so many buffbots now because the game mechinism allows them to exist. You think that if surveyer, DE, smuggler, could be completly done AFK that players wouldn't have buff-slicers in their towns? You think they wouldn't have buff-droid builders in their towns? They exist firstly because the game mechinism allows them to exist, and secondly to fulfill a need.
Remember when AH, Bestine, even the non-populated npc cities on Tatooine actually had a couple of entertainers (and they weren't afk, this was way before player cities). I actually remember a entertainer that loved dancing in Mos Entha, rarely any visitors, but it was her home. I rarely saw her anymore..
One of my 'apprentices' loved bestine. She got recruited by a smart guild and now has a cantina on her own.
Buffbots don't care that AFK entertainers in cantinas are no longer a source of information and knowledge, particularly for new players or players still learning their profession I live in Stella Vicus majority of the time, I've had people visiting the city, even new players. The service is there for people who have a hard time (especially late at night) to find entertainers to heal them.
Doesn't address the issue of passing information and knowledge, which is what that statement was about. I think they should remove all the planetary waypoints to points of interest, and make people have to actually talk to other people to find the way. Remove the ability to WP the points of interest as well.
You ever been to the pirate outpost, and imperial outpost, AND even the mining outpost on Dantooine?You're telling people they should spend 3k or so just to shuttle back and forth to heal up (don't forget tipping the atk entertainers). You talk about new players, yet new players can't even afford this much when they first start (and they're usually the adventurous type.
Yes, I hang out in Dant all the time; i have a home on Dant. And whenever I'm in the cantina there are always at least 2 other entertainers. If there aren't any entertainers, I dance; if there aren't any medics, I heal.
In addition, as a fairly successful entertainer, I take 'apprentice' dancers all the time. Help them along, point them to shops, IDs, and tailors, show them how to best get tips, etc. Does your buffbot do that?
Buffbots don't care that the game has been transformed from being about the journey to instead being about how fast you can get to master. Very untrue, I got a master musician and entertainer. It's mostly a social profession. If I really wanted to get social, I could play Sims online. It was a fun profession, but it gets tedious and boring. I even roleplay interacting with people and such, but even that has it's limit.
For you, maybe. Not for those of us who find our enjoyment in roleplaying entertainers. We don't find our enjoyment in killing yet another incaration of the latest monstor-du-jour.
So much has been lost by the ability to have this entire profession be done AFK. Actually hologrinding, and player cities is what hurt the profession the most. If this is implemented, majority of the player cities will be ghost town mainly because some of the key things were buffbots.
See my other postings regarding the ability for Entertainers to "manage" player city cantinas to make them useful. I'm aware of the issues, and try to suggest ideas that take other professions into account. Do you?
Majority of the people will continously hang out in Coronet and Theed, the main focal point in SWG since those are the 2 key populated area. This is just going to make it worse.
No, it will make them alive, not dead and robotic.
So please, don't use AFK entertainers as the main cause of this, IMO it's actually the player cities, and the fact that it gets repetitive (Entertainers really need a lot of love, it's a fun profession like I said, but it gets repetitive.
The only thing I find repetitive is the walls and furniture. I like a little variety in the scenery. When I'm entertaining, I'm almost never looking at my own dancer. I'm reading other peoples profiles, looking at what they're wearing, talking to 3 or 4 combat players healing BF, and talking to the people who are ATK in the entertainer group. Very lively, fun, and not boring at all.
Through entertaining, I've met players from all over the world. I've met players that have made life choices so drastically different from mine, and talk to them about their experiences. I've even met players that fully live the ROLEPLAYING part of a MMORPG. We have a grand time. "Grinders" and buffbots miss all that.
Anyways sorry for the trolling (but I do have master musician/entertainer, just rarely play him cause like I said in my previous reasons).
One interesting idea is to actually allow master musicians/dancers hire a npc dancer/musician (in a player cantina only)that can only do half what a actual pc dancer/musician can do. Another word. a npc musician will only buff at half the rate, and heal wounds/bf at half the rate then what a full fledged musician/dancers would use.
This would still help the late nighters, and master musicians/dancers would still be a viable profession for those that like it. I'm just hoping they give some loving to the profession.
Erawia_D wrote:
One interesting idea is to actually allow master musicians/dancers hire a npc dancer/musician (in a player cantina only)that can only do half what a actual pc dancer/musician can do. Another word. a npc musician will only buff at half the rate, and heal wounds/bf at half the rate then what a full fledged musician/dancers would use.
This would still help the late nighters, and master musicians/dancers would still be a viable profession for those that like it. I'm just hoping they give some loving to the profession.
Panthu wrote:
BlackEdgewrote:
One interesting idea is to actually allow master musicians/dancers hire a npc dancer/musician (in a player cantina only)that can only do half what a actual pc dancer/musician can do. Another word. a npc musician will only buff at half the rate, and heal wounds/bf at half the rate then what a full fledged musician/dancers would use.
This would still help the late nighters, and master musicians/dancers would still be a viable profession for those that like it. I'm just hoping they give some loving to the profession.
I've always liked the Ent Pet/Vendor Idea personally... I want to be able to team with them, teach them Dance Routines, ID them and dress them up in fun clothes, name them, and leave them behind in a Cantina as my Ent Healing/Buff Vendor.
... I even think we should get EH XP for them.
BovineX wrote:
so now looped macros are 'going'. but 1 3rd party program fixes and 'fix' to looping macros. the player is willing to leave a 1000$ mechine running all day, do you really think he's gonna balk on useing a 'ilegal' program, that TH almost legitimized in the reasoning. (if only the few have=advantage, than admitting some will use them) Buffbots are here to stay, no matter how they try to remove them, perhaps driven a little more underground? maybe.
but is this really going to 'improve' anything? are Masters going to come back to the cantinas? No, the same reason your not there now, still exist. now there will be less, but not none of the afk entertainers.
this seems likely to do nothing except encourage players to cheat.
BovineX
I dont understand the logic that if players are going to do something undesireable make it so everyone can and its accepted. Lets put it in another prospective what do you think would happen if the creators of counterstrike had decided since so many people were using aimbots and cheats they should just allow everyone to cheat and put god mode and aim bots right into the game? You know what it would suck bigtime. The only reason its been aceptable here is because it hasn't hurt the combat comunity in a meaningful way. I mean we dancers are just second clas players anyway right so who the hell cares if some socialiser is having any fun,
You know what though, ive played for what will be a year on august 12th, ive done every combat profession except for commando, rifleman and fencer. I've done dancer twice, ive done TkA twice. You know what conclusion ive come to, without other people to interact with this game is pretty damn boring. I did TKA and Swordsman in 3 days combined without ever using a mind buff and at the end it was no fun because the nightsister elders i could solo didnt have anything to say to me.
Having afk players in the game decreases the longevety of the average players subscription time in my opinion. Sure ive been here a long time but im obsessed with star wars in general and thats part of whats kept me going. Now with the combat fix put off till next year most likely, combat is going to be sucking for some time to come. It'd be nice at least to have the MULTIPLAYER part of MMOG back in its place.
I've heard people say this wont stop buffbots, you know what if some buffbots remain it's still a positive step, because it is the first time the developers have made any effort to show that they do not approve of unatended play, and thats very encouraging indeed.
Panthu wrote:
I've always liked the Ent Pet/Vendor Idea personally... I want to be able to team with them, teach them Dance Routines, ID them and dress them up in fun clothes, name them, and leave them behind in a Cantina as my Ent Healing/Buff Vendor.
... I even think we should get EH XP for them.
That is such a cool idea. Reminds me of something I was thinking of the other day - we need advertiser droids. I know merchants can use barker droids, and I was thinking of picking up merchant just to do so. But then someone told me you need like advertising 4 in merchant to use the barker droids! That's just an awful lot of skill points to spend just to advertise my services.
My idea was I'd get a barker droid and program it with a message "Master dancer mind buffing in the cantina, please stop by!" or something like that. Then I'd have it patrol in front of the starport while I'm in the cantina. Here's the key thing - I would do this in towns where people usually can't find a master dancer anymore - Kaadara, Keren, Moenia, Tyrena, Kor Vella, anywhere on Rori or Talus, etc.
Anyway, I doubt I'll spend the skillpoints to be able to use a barker droid but it would be nice if Entertainers, especially at the master level, had tools like this. Yes, I can rename a droid and set it to patrol, but something more elegant would be nice. If the devs could give us more tools to make our presence and availability known, it would ease all this screeching that "you'll never find an entertainer buff again" once buffbots are gone. Registration is obviously a first step, but I'm thinking even more enhancements.
Panthu wrote:
FuschiaD wrote:
I trust Panthu. If she says they're making plans to combat this that won't make us obsolete, I shall believe her.
Hey hey, it's not a done deal. The proposals exist, that doesn't mean they won't choose another Prof to take over some of our duties. CM's, Medics, Docs, and SLs all have smacked their chops over our Blue Wound healing/buffing and BF Healing.
Panthu wrote:
I've always liked the Ent Pet/Vendor Idea personally... I want to be able to team with them, teach them Dance Routines, ID them and dress them up in fun clothes, name them, and leave them behind in a Cantina as my Ent Healing/Buff Vendor.
... I even think we should get EH XP for them.
then all the cantinas will get full of npcs spamming buffing 5k, healind 1k..
instead to have afk players you will have npcs...
and how about cantina atmosphere? how about live entertainers that like to group and play togather and maybe chat a bit with customers (if customers want 
)
it will exactaly as it is now if not worse with maybe 50 entertainer npcs placed in front of the doors of coronet cantina and everytime someone entert/exit...
buffing 5k, healing1k (x50)