Dancer Archive
Thread: A solution to AFK that will make everyone happy.
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Chessack
Fri Nov 07, 2003 1:27 am
#14
You are 100% right. It is not "fixed" yet by the devs because they haven't figured out a way to smack the rude people without "collateral damage" taking out more nice people than rude people.
The other thing that really galls me and I think most players is what a tiny minority these obnoxious people are, and how 1% of the community (AFK+RUDE+ALWAYS THERE) has the ability to upset the other 99% (AFK, ATK, and otherwise, who are not rude). These people get "us" -- the responsible AFKers, the ATKers, etc -- arguing with each other, while they happily go about being utter idiots in-game and not taking any responsibility for it. Neat racket, huh?
The most positive suggestion I have seen so far (it's a buried thread now but maybe I should find it and resurrect it) was someone who said, "Rather than punich AFKers, find some really nice rewards for being at keyboard." The best idea on that thread was having bonus XP for "dance offs". Dancers could "duel" each other and the idea was you'd watch my dance, and have to replicate what I do. If you do, you "win" and get extra bonus XP. If you mess up (miss timing, do the wrong flourish), I "win" and I get bonus XP. AFKers obviously could not do this plus it would be fun to watch. Then with dancer missions, the same "duel" system could work but vs. an NPC, who would dance your highest dance and tech effects against you, and if you match that dancer you "win" (money + bonus XP for the mission) and if you "lose" the mission fails.
I really really like these types of ideas (though of course they bear much tweaking before they are implemented). Rather than re-writing the working, non-bugged macro system to abort dialog spam or prevent EXP gain under certain conditions, just make it more rewarding to be at keyboard. Plus the "dancer duels" would give a pair of dancers something fun to do when no patrons are there and I've gotta believe they would be cool to watch (in limited quantities) for the patrons. We would have to see to it that you couldn't duel constantly though as that would get as old as AFKing if not older, fast. But that's easy enough... make it cost action or if you fail give you action wounds that would then force you to heal up, ultimately limiting how often you do it (or better yet make it not heal so you'd have to stop dueling to heal people, etc).
From basic psychology we know that positive reinforcement is less "impactful" than negative in the short term, but is better in the long run for accomplishing what you want. I think if we find ways to positively reinforce at-keyboard play, then more people would do it (plus they would find it more interesting) and less people would AFK.
It of course would never solve the REAL problem, which is the tiny 1% of people out there who are rude, and I am not sure that anything can ever be done about that. It is annoying, but typical, that 1% of the people who abuse things ruin it for the 99% of people who don't, but that is life. And of course it "feels like" there are "all these rude AFK entertainers" because, as I said on another thread, those are the people you notice, by definition. The quiet, discreet ones in the corner not spamming the room, you never notice and they just don't make it into your mental tally of how many AFKers are nice vs. not-nice.
That's where the saying comes from, "One rotten apple can spoil the bunch."
C
The other thing that really galls me and I think most players is what a tiny minority these obnoxious people are, and how 1% of the community (AFK+RUDE+ALWAYS THERE) has the ability to upset the other 99% (AFK, ATK, and otherwise, who are not rude). These people get "us" -- the responsible AFKers, the ATKers, etc -- arguing with each other, while they happily go about being utter idiots in-game and not taking any responsibility for it. Neat racket, huh?
The most positive suggestion I have seen so far (it's a buried thread now but maybe I should find it and resurrect it) was someone who said, "Rather than punich AFKers, find some really nice rewards for being at keyboard." The best idea on that thread was having bonus XP for "dance offs". Dancers could "duel" each other and the idea was you'd watch my dance, and have to replicate what I do. If you do, you "win" and get extra bonus XP. If you mess up (miss timing, do the wrong flourish), I "win" and I get bonus XP. AFKers obviously could not do this plus it would be fun to watch. Then with dancer missions, the same "duel" system could work but vs. an NPC, who would dance your highest dance and tech effects against you, and if you match that dancer you "win" (money + bonus XP for the mission) and if you "lose" the mission fails.
I really really like these types of ideas (though of course they bear much tweaking before they are implemented). Rather than re-writing the working, non-bugged macro system to abort dialog spam or prevent EXP gain under certain conditions, just make it more rewarding to be at keyboard. Plus the "dancer duels" would give a pair of dancers something fun to do when no patrons are there and I've gotta believe they would be cool to watch (in limited quantities) for the patrons. We would have to see to it that you couldn't duel constantly though as that would get as old as AFKing if not older, fast. But that's easy enough... make it cost action or if you fail give you action wounds that would then force you to heal up, ultimately limiting how often you do it (or better yet make it not heal so you'd have to stop dueling to heal people, etc).
From basic psychology we know that positive reinforcement is less "impactful" than negative in the short term, but is better in the long run for accomplishing what you want. I think if we find ways to positively reinforce at-keyboard play, then more people would do it (plus they would find it more interesting) and less people would AFK.
It of course would never solve the REAL problem, which is the tiny 1% of people out there who are rude, and I am not sure that anything can ever be done about that. It is annoying, but typical, that 1% of the people who abuse things ruin it for the 99% of people who don't, but that is life. And of course it "feels like" there are "all these rude AFK entertainers" because, as I said on another thread, those are the people you notice, by definition. The quiet, discreet ones in the corner not spamming the room, you never notice and they just don't make it into your mental tally of how many AFKers are nice vs. not-nice.
That's where the saying comes from, "One rotten apple can spoil the bunch."
C
Kharrissa
Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:21 am
#15
If you have not already done so, go over to the Creature Handler forum and read the thread on AFK macro CHs.
Then explain to me why AFK macroers negatively impact the "respect" aspect of dancers in way that they do not for creature handlers.
I am starting to suspect that the AFK Macrotainer thing is just an excuse that some people are using.
PBJoker
Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:46 am
#16
PBJoker wrote:
Just to see, I posted this:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Eclipse&message.id=151749
OK, now that there are a good amount of replies, the overwhelming consensus on the thread is:
I don't respect AFK entertainers, but there existence does not make me loose respect for the ones that do work at it.
Anyway, it's only one server (I picked the server with the most posts in hopes of more replies) and only 10-15 peeps opinion, but it's a favoring response none the less.
picklesSW
Fri Nov 07, 2003 11:44 am
#17
If that is truly the way a majority of the people view it, then I'm relieved.
Either way, I'm really hoping player cantinas take off next week when player cities go in. It might take a while, but if they do, it will hopefully fix a lot of this.
- J
Either way, I'm really hoping player cantinas take off next week when player cities go in. It might take a while, but if they do, it will hopefully fix a lot of this.
- J
Chessack
Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:53 pm
#18
Yeah the problem is, you see someone with "Enthraller" as a title. You respect those who got it by playing and not those who AFK Macroed getting it, but how do you know?. Unless you watch them for a while to see them AFK Macroing still, a few minutes of them being at-keyboard in the here-and-now doesn't really tell you anything.
"Respect" is not really an issue that I care a lot about so I am just kind of playing devil's advocte here. But the point is that you can't know. I think whatever the profession, most people who play the game themselvs, respect those who got it by playing more than those who got it by basically running a script while they slept. The problem is that you can't know who got their title one way vs. the other. And while you can macro other classes, macroed entertainers are doing it right there out in public, often as a group, which leads to the impression "they all do it," much more than a solo CH somewhere in the wilds of Rori would lead to such an impression.
C
"Respect" is not really an issue that I care a lot about so I am just kind of playing devil's advocte here. But the point is that you can't know. I think whatever the profession, most people who play the game themselvs, respect those who got it by playing more than those who got it by basically running a script while they slept. The problem is that you can't know who got their title one way vs. the other. And while you can macro other classes, macroed entertainers are doing it right there out in public, often as a group, which leads to the impression "they all do it," much more than a solo CH somewhere in the wilds of Rori would lead to such an impression.
C
Tiaga
Fri Nov 07, 2003 7:27 pm
#19
Kharrissa wrote:
If you have not already done so, go over to the Creature Handler forum and read the thread on AFK macro CHs.
Then explain to me why AFK macroers negatively impact the "respect" aspect of dancers in way that they do not for creature handlers.
I am starting to suspect that the AFK Macrotainer thing is just an excuse that some people are using.
Because people don't need to go watch Creature Handlers, so don't notice it as much.
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