Dancer Archive
Thread: A Moral Question About AFK'ing
I never said it cheapened the class.
I know other dancers have said it. I understand why they say so, but I don't really "respect" people for Master titles, whatever the profession. I respect them as good players when they act like it. Which to be fair is most people.
C
Karma-wise, I have a hard time taking seriously or helpingthe person who is eternally AFK and building experience by doing nothing more than running a macro while they sleep. I play it live, and for one will be very happy when I make Master knowing I did not exploit the current system to do it.
it's almost as if i could read minds. uncanny.
ExoticDancer Wrote:
---
.... and for one will be very happy when I make Master knowing I did not exploit the current system to do it.
---
I think there are two issues here with people who don’t like Macroing.
First point is the one made here above, and I think Meeuki stated it better then ever with this...
---
people who latch on the the cheapening arguement are really trying to say they are threatened by the ease at which people can achieve what they consider to be a symbol of status. they are in a quest for 'power' just like everyone else, whether that be power in terms of money, or power in terms of fame....., power in terms of rarity.... in terms of status.
if a master dancer is easily obtained then it does not impress anyone and that is what is at the heart of the anti-afkers arguement....
---
This goes for all MMO’s and all classes, not just picking on entertainers.
The second is some feel AFkers reduce the fun factor for the STKers while there playing. I have to agree that the second one annoys me, even as an AFKer myself. I am an odd sort of AFKer, I am a pseudo AFKer so to speak. I have two PC’s set up right next to each other and I run two accounts at the same time. I am on my combat guy full time. I have an AFK auto response set to point them to my other char. Last night for 7 hours I was the leader of a 15 group entertainer group on Cornet Cantina (3 of them were healing). Most of the time I would say 11 of the 12 were afk (including me). But, every 2-3 min I would look over to see what was going on, and see if anyone needed anything. I would also check drift and make sure I was not in the way. I stay in the back of the group at all times, being I am not a “real” dancer. The text spam for me was very annoying, I can see how if you were full time on that char how it would drive someone crazy.
I don’t care too much about the first reason against AFKing, I saw the first BH on my server in less than 2 weeks of play. There is no way to do that without exploiting (esp at launch when your waiting on the crafters to catch up). I have played over 10 MMO’s and in every game they exist. If your going to be a part of this type of community, your gona have to learn to accept it.
The second group I find to be a form of greffing. I do not think it intentional, but I think it’s greffing non the less. It’s easy to fix too. Get rid of drift in dancing and remove all forms of speech in macroing. That would reduce the aggravation a ton right there.
Oh and ExoticDancer, it’s not an exploit. Unfortunately for many of you, it’s the way the game is designed. I do not agree with your argument because I don’t find much accomplishment in obtaining character level or stats. I play these game to interact with people and to be generally social. I enjoy helping my fellow gamers out, and that’s what I take pride in. Everyone plays for there own reasons, and a lot play for the same reason you infer. They enjoy being a master <insert class here> and take pride in the struggle they took getting there. I too was like that. After maxing a few chars in other games, I found I enjoy the end game much better. Some love the treadmill, others don’t. Nothing wrong with either approach to gaming.
The way I see it, you get out of the game what you put in to it. If you like 'playing' by advancing your character by gaining skills via AFK macroing, so be it. I, for one, enjoy the challenge of advancement through playing.
If you aren't concerned about advancement just interaction with others, why do you bother to AFK macro at all? Hmm...
The argument you present is that somehow my play style (due to advancing to master via AFK macroing) on principal upsets you. My question is why?
If I sat in my house afk and became a 4,0,4,0 dancer never doing anything but macroing, how does that affect you? In reality, it doesn’t, but you feel upset because someone obtained the same level as you did when you put in a lot of work into it and they didn’t do anything.
I am saying, for your sake, please get over that. Don’t let that aspect of the game get to you. It will never go away. It’s a dynamic of these kinds of games that can’t be avoided. I totally agree with the complaints about AFKer that affect you due to there direct actions, like text spaming or doing lyrical all over the place in the front of the cantina.
But take me for example, I will never advertise I am a master dancer. I am a master doc and don’t advertise that. I will never dance in a cantina afk after I master the class, or dance for tips. I will never dance for my guild mates when there is another entertainer in the cantina out at our remote location. I only am getting master dancer to buff when we would otherwise have no way to get buffed (that answers your question as to why I am macroing at all). I don’t ask for tips. I never talk to customers unless talked to. I dance in the back of the cantina. I don’t spam text. And, I think I will get master dancer in 10 days, so what little annoyance I am is short lived.
So, with that example, what about me doing this bothers you?
I have a terrible confession to make: I am an AFK Macrotainer.
PBJ -- if everyone AFK Macroed like you describe, this wouldn't be nearly the hot-button issue it has been for the last 3 or more months.
C
1. A Trandoshan musician, very nice, we performed a few nights while I still was a 0/0/3/3 Entertainer. We had great fun performing until one night his Character started to whine and pout and completely screwed up our 5 man show. It turns out Mr. Entertainer player had left for work without telling ANYone in the group that he left. The pouting and whining was his wife trying to log out the character. I sometimes see this Trandoshan around, I say hello ask him to play but he never does, I think he was hurt just as bad as I was by what he did...
2. A human musician belonging to a respectable guild on our server. The first night he was at keyboard, we entertained all night, had great fun going through all the songs I knew... The next day he was a bot, with a guild healer healing him all day when I needed to sit to rest up my action. He brought 3 or 4 other guild member into the cantina. To heal him and also afk tain there. He demanded training, when he qualified for master entertainer he demanded that I taught it to him while I was with my tailor, he kept whining for 2 hours or more to be trained when he knew I was somewhere else. When I came back to the cantina, very late in the night in europe, I trained him and I never got a real sign of appreciation for the many skills I taught him and when I needed training he was never there, I paid for skills and passed him in the musician tree which he later demanded that I teach him. He was there for 9 days on day 10 I did a report and since then I have not seen him around.
3. I qualified for Music Knowledge 4, I traveled all across the galaxy and find a Master Musician wearing a Novice Marksman title playing on a Nalargon in Moenia, he parked himself right in the entrance with a big AFK over his head... I stayed for about 20 minutes before I ran out and went back to where I was entertaining that weekend... The only master online was AFK, the next day I got my training from a friend.
4. Human musician, very nice, we played music, I let him get his ID experience on me and out of the blue he sends me a /tell "I am going AFK now, I know you don't like it...". The next day I walked in the cantina and he allready made Master Entertainer, I could have taught him that for free but I think he paid the NPC teacher like I did when I got it. That just made me sad and I walked out the cantina at which point he kept sending me tells, this is just a alt, I like playing music but these songs suck, I hope we can be friends, I don't know how to make up for what I did... I told him we might be friends but since this is just a alt for him that I was not going to bother right now with my only character and I went off with one of my friends, the same one that taught me Music Knowledge 4 from example 3.
I will leave it at 4 examples but I can give many more, all more or less the same and some dancers too. I really do not care about AFK tainers that do it in their homes or PA halls, but I have met only 1 of those and he was honest about it, I liked that, he is still on my friend list but he gave up music to go fighting and stuff. The point is, there are very very few AFK tainers that go to a sideroom or backroom. And most of the Macro tainers make me really sad and I for one don't like entertaining in a empty cantina with just a few AFK tainers who have no consideration for me.
I don't know what the rush is, I've been playing for 6 weeks now and I know how to entertain, I had plenty of time to experiment with dance transitions, music transitions, and most of the other tricks described in a few other posts before anyone wrote them down. I met masters who are worse then some people that walk in with a Novice Entertainer title in their starter outfit. At times I've had great fun but at other times...
DenisaGalen wrote:
Well, since you asked to not turn this into another flame I will just give you some examples of the AFK tainers that I despise...
1. A Trandoshan musician, very nice, we performed a few nights while I still was a 0/0/3/3 Entertainer. We had great fun performing until one night his Character started to whine and pout and completely screwed up our 5 man show. It turns out Mr. Entertainer player had left for work without telling ANYone in the group that he left. The pouting and whining was his wife trying to log out the character. I sometimes see this Trandoshan around, I say hello ask him to play but he never does, I think he was hurt just as bad as I was by what he did...
/tell MrEntertainer, just type /quit
done.
No different from dealing with any noob. AFK didn't really hurt you here.
2. A human musician belonging to a respectable guild on our server. The first night he was at keyboard, we entertained all night, had great fun going through all the songs I knew... The next day he was a bot, with a guild healer healing him all day when I needed to sit to rest up my action. He brought 3 or 4 other guild member into the cantina. To heal him and also afk tain there. He demanded training, when he qualified for master entertainer he demanded that I taught it to him while I was with my tailor, he kept whining for 2 hours or more to be trained when he knew I was somewhere else. When I came back to the cantina, very late in the night in europe, I trained him and I never got a real sign of appreciation for the many skills I taught him and when I needed training he was never there, I paid for skills and passed him in the musician tree which he later demanded that I teach him. He was there for 9 days on day 10 I did a report and since then I have not seen him around.
He demanded training?
/ignore retardName
Done. It wasn't the AFK that annoyed you, it was that he was acting like a spoiled brat.
3. I qualified for Music Knowledge 4, I traveled all across the galaxy and find a Master Musician wearing a Novice Marksman title playing on a Nalargon in Moenia, he parked himself right in the entrance with a big AFK over his head... I stayed for about 20 minutes before I ran out and went back to where I was entertaining that weekend... The only master online was AFK, the next day I got my training from a friend.
And if he would not have been logged in, the result would have been different... how?
You still either have to wait or go to an NPC trainer.
AFK didn't harm you in this case either.
4. Human musician, very nice, we played music, I let him get his ID experience on me and out of the blue he sends me a /tell "I am going AFK now, I know you don't like it...". The next day I walked in the cantina and he allready made Master Entertainer, I could have taught him that for free but I think he paid the NPC teacher like I did when I got it. That just made me sad and I walked out the cantina at which point he kept sending me tells, this is just a alt, I like playing music but these songs suck, I hope we can be friends, I don't know how to make up for what I did... I told him we might be friends but since this is just a alt for him that I was not going to bother right now with my only character and I went off with one of my friends, the same one that taught me Music Knowledge 4 from example 3.
What does it matter to youwhether he paid an NPC for his training? It's his money, isn't it? How did his being AFK hurt you in this case? If it was the constant tell's, refer to my answer to your #2.
Don't get me wrong, I'm certain there are situations where AFK is completely obnoxious and borders on griefing. But none of the four cases you've described really seem to indicate that type of behavior, or that AFK was even an issue at all in how the situations affected you.
These guys Denisa described are actually not anywhere near as odious as the people I think of as truly obnoxious AFK macroers. Here's MY favorite (but not my only) example:
Female Twi'lek scantily clad. Let's call her 'NancyB' (not her real name or even close). NancyB is a dancer in Moenia. She stands off to one side, AFK Macroing her dances. Oh, and while she dances, she has a /shout macro that goes off every 90 seconds. For those who don't know how spatial works, this means pretty much everyone in Moenia from the bridge over to the spaceport, back behind the cantina, and even slightly further, can see it in spatial (i.e. "hear" it). Her /shout macro was, in all caps, "COME SEE THE STRIPPERS IN THE CANTINA!"
Now, this is the type of person that people say, "Oh just ignore." Well, I hate to burst their bubble but that did not work. Oh sure *I* could make it so I didn't see that text, but hundreds of other players who didn't know enough to /ignore her because they were outside fighting mummer thugs or whatever, saw it, and came into the cantina to "see the strippers." Of course the other 3 of us in there (2 dancers and a male musician) had no intention of stripping, but this AFK person with her little AFK Macro that everyone keeps telling me is so "harmless" and "doesn't affect me" attracted all the most obnoxious, juvenile, hormones-raging teenage boys in the game into that cantina, and had them going around /licking the rest of us, tipping and demanding "Now strip!" etc.
This is the kind of behavior that irritates me. My gaming was ruined (to the point where I just had to leave Moenia in frustration) due to little miss NancyB. /ignore didn't work because I'd have had to /ignore everyone who came into the cantina, and while they were being somewhat immature, can I really blame them for coming in to see the strippers that she was advertising were there? No, this was her fault.
I have had the people tell me that "Well, this is just one obnoxious person; AFK had nothing to do with it." That's just patently untrue. AFK had everything to do with it. NancyB was AFK. This meant that the rest of us could not ask her to cut it out. She was on a macro, and there was no way to stop it. And by being AFK, she was able to utterly escape the consequences of her own obnoxious behavior, while making the rest of us who were AT keyboard deal with those consequences.
So, AFKing by yourself, quietly, discreetly, as I have said -- fine. I don't understand the point of it, but fine, it doesn't bother me.
AFK Macroing in an obnoxious way clearly designed to detract from the live performers there, I have a major problem with, because it affects me, and as I have said before, my $15/month may not be worth MORE than NancyB's, but it sure as heck should not be worth LESS.
C
Ah, it doesn't bother me anymore. There are so many other cantinas and places you can be. I empathize, but like PBJoker, there's really nothing you can do about cases like this.
Now outright rude and insensitive behavior deserves to be reported, but in the end, it's easier to isolate that idiot by moving on and leaving her to be a 'lone' idiot.
Okies...
I don't like posting on the board but I must because the last reply really annoyed me. I truly don't know who you are but Denisa listed things that bothered her. Perhaps she didn't articulate exactly what happened perfectly for you to get the true feeling behind everything, but for you to sit there and dissect her post and then correct her telling her "afk isn't what bothered you here" is rather rude and presumptious of you to do. Unfortunately text is a very difficult medium at times to convey things. Since you were not there and could not fully appreciate the circumstances, I find it rather hard to believe you know what bothered her and why.
I think I must agree with Chess about why AFK bothers me. Its not really about someone getting a master title or not for me. Its the fact that I am there at the keys, doing what I enjoy, and this person plops themselves right in front of me, proceeding to go afk and constantly say "Please tip the entertainers" or "Enjoy the show" or something to the effect of "I need one more skill box for master, please everyone watch me". I don't really wish to see your spam over and over again. I don't really like you dancing all over the place without any consideration for anyone else there.
Now thats my own personal thing...I don't like people being rude around me.
Where afk bots affect the dance community, all one has to do is look around and talk to a few people. Why should they tip or even acknowledge you exist by using your name? You just area master dancer...a title that everyone can get, even in their sleep. *sweet smile* Sir, thats not from our own dancers here at the boards, but from others in the SWG community.
I personally don't use macros to dance while I sleep or am at work. If you wish to do so, more power to you, but please, please, try and remember that you may pay for the game but so do I. I wouldn't dream of inconveniencing you with rudeness, so please don't do that to me. 
Lady Oqua Alsan ~ Master Dancer, Master Tailor