Dancer Archive
Thread: A thought on AFK entertainers from a non-entertainer
I specifically said I have not had the AFKer-already-there experience myself, but I have seen many posts here and on the entertainer forum of entertainers who have. Unlike you, Sig, I believe them. I don't dismiss their experiences as trivial because they do not match mine perfectly. I acknowledge that things will vary by server, by time of day, by day of the week, and even by hunting party, and so even all of my experiences combined do not speak as eloquently to what "most entertainers face" as do the collective posts of many of them on these various boards over many months. I have read many posts by other entertainers saying that they went to high-end worlds and made no money because they were 'scooped' by an AFK-bot and most of the cheap people on those worlds watched Little Ms. AFK for free rather than spending a few thou tipping a live dancer. I happen to believe these people when they say this happened to them, and since I believe them this means it has occurred a LOT.
No, it hasn't happened to me, and you say it hasn't happened to you. So it's not inevitable but it DOES happen, as I am sure many other dancers who have experienced it can attest. You know this because you have responded to many of them yourself.
I've never said, "I'm not going to a high end world because it might cost me money" before. Usually I go there to sight-see and check out the cool new graphics, and if I lost all the money going there it'd be fine because I don't mind going just once for that price. But, if I were specifically going to try and make a profit, the fact that I might get all the way there and be trumped by an AFK macroer, would make me think twice about going. What I am suggesting is making the type of person who would otherwise go to a world like Dantooine to make a profit (of which I honestly am NOT one) think twice about it, is not a good thing. Make them feel like what they are in search of (profit, for instance) is a shoe-in, and you will see them flocking to such places.
C
Back again. hehehe. I am begining to frequent this board as much as CH and TK. ^_^'
As to the comment about people going to those far off worlds just to find that an AFK macro-artist is already there and the tight fisted patrons paying attention to them instead of the live entertainer, sadly, I have to agree that I have seen that around as well. I guess it was different for me because money was not that incredibly hard to make (though with the nerfed dathomir missions, that may change) and so I did not mind spending a few thousand on a live dancer, even if I did not have that many wounds to begin with. For the novice dancers, I am not sure how you can entice money or even the attention away from the AFK entertainer. I would suggest talking, being friendly, and such, but most of the live entertainers are ALREADY like that, which is part of the reason why I pay attention to them in the first place. As for the Master Dancers who are looking to make money, then the high level worlds with decent if not high population is the way to go, because I have yet to see a macro-artist buffing. In fact, I rarely see ANY entertainer buffing, and when i do happen to find some one on Dath, I usually have to wait in line. If I had to choose between buffing my mental and buffing my other stats, I would take mental buffs everytime since the majority of my skills take so much mental.
As to other solutions, I do not really know. I know some of my friends who are or were dancers used to get huge tips (15k+) and that took care of them for money for a while, and I always supported them by buying outfits and tickets and whatever else they needed. I guess for those of us who would like to have an entertainer present, we have to do what was suggested and find a favorite and take care of them so they can take care of use. ^_^'
it depends on the city. some cities in highly populated/frequented areas will be awesome places to dance i bet. but smaller cities that are basically PA cities will no doubt suck if they are in the middle of nowhere.
Thanks for the thoughful and well-written posts.
I do appreciate the difficulty of finding an entertainer on a high-end world. My 2nd character is not an entertainer and I have seen that BF build up too. I too have had to go looking in cantina after cantina to get BF healed, just as I am sure you have.
While I understand that you prefer non-AFKers but sometimes feel like you need the AFK bots as your "only solution", the Law of Unintended Consequences has lead to the very problem with "empty cantinas" you are saddened by. Many, many dancers on this forum have either left dancing entirely, or abandoned public cantinas for guild halls or other private locales, because, whether it is reasonable for them to be or not, they are personally offended by the AFK Macroers. (Note: I'm not one of these people -- I still dance exclusively in the public places because I like the public places.) So to some extent this is sort of a self-fulfillng prophecy here. You long for the "old days" of the active cantinas with the interactive dancers, and only want to use AFK-bots if there are no active people present, BUT, the AFK bots have already chased off a lot of the active people who just do not want to deal with them any longer.
Take your example of being on a high-end world and grateful for an AFK-bot. In the short run that AFK bot helped you. In the long run, however, she did not. Because for example, multiple entertainers have posted the experience of spending thousands of credits going all the way to Lok or Endor or Dantooine from home, only to find an AFK-bot already there doing the job, and dozens of cheap, tight-fisted players using the free healing provided by the AFK-bot rather than the live performer. (Again, no, this has not happened to me.) These dancers have lost thousands of credits because of that AFK-bot that you are glad is there in the short run. In the long run those present dancers, which you prefer to watch, are going to just give up going to Endor or Dantooine, because they keep losing money going there. Heck, just one or two trips like this is such a huge loss in money (to a typical dancer's finances) that they'd probably never do it again.
And the real problem with the AFK-bot is that, clealry, it is not someone who loves the profession. Or else they would not be AFK macroing all the time (yes, there are a few exceptions, but by and larger AFK macroers are not hugely in love with dancing). As such, and as a result of the fact that they have put no effort into the class and made no investment, they will likely abandon the cantina the minute they hit "master dancer." And what then is left? After the "present" entertainers are gone becaues they can't stand the AFKers, and after the AFKers master and also quit, who is left?
In the long run, the smart money is on the dedicated dancers and musicians. Of all the entertainers I have met and known on Naboo, between Moenia, Keren, and Kaadara, on the Naritus server, I can't think of a single one out of several dozens of AFK macroers that still dances or plays after having reached master. Alternatively, I can't think of any dancers or musicians who still log in (some obviously have quit the game or what have you), who have quit entertaining. The dedicated performers who love it and do not AFK macro for long periods are your best bet for the long term because they like the profession and want to keep playing their entertainer characters. BUT, if the AFK-bots make the profession unpleasant for them (in their estimation -- and they are the only ones who can decide this), and they leave, then in the end you are left with nothing, because the AFKers, in general, don't care.
So, I can see why you would think the AFKer in the remote location is doing you a favor, but I believe in the long run that he or she is not. They may help you heal your BF today but if they also chase off potential at-keyboard, dedicated players, then when AFK-macro-bot finishes skill levelling, who will be left to perform in the cantina at that remote location tomorrow, or the next day, or the day after that?
C
I do most of my dancing in camps and remote world cantinas. I only dance in the big city cantinas when I am close by and feel like I can afford to stay long enough to level. I always stop to dance in Bestine b/c there are usually fun master dancers there to team with *waves to Ch'loe and the Slave girls* and a few newbs to give old clothes and tips to. ^^ I also stop in any cantina I am passing by that I know to be slow in the chance someone is waiting there to be healed and has been for a long time (there often are >< ) .
So anyway, I have a pretty decent idea of the state of AFKers and who watches them... it seems that most ppl will choose an active live dancer over an AFK dancer and the ones who don't are usually ent griefer types and wouldn't tip anyway. It's the scripted AFKers that _really_ mess stuff up, you have to be sitting there for a pretty long time to see what they are doing, so even the people who wouldn't normally be using afk over actives get confused and tip these ppl... and think they are talking to them. ><
AFKers getting booted out of the cantina sounds awesome to me. For sure there are a lot of work arounds, but if it even makes it a little bit harder to AFK dance it would be worth it. ^^ They damage the profession's status socially and the need for entertainers game balance wise... also, they seem to be making the active Master Dancers grouchy.
One trend that seems pretty new on starsider (I mean new as in the last couple of weeks, I've only been around for a little over a month) is Master Dancers refusing to join the ent group and buffing on the main floor. It seems so crappy, they don't need to xp and they'll be getting the same tips in or out of the group, why not help out the newer dancers? ^^;
If this is in protest to the Afkers in the ent group, say that. Most people would rather reteam to dance w/ a master... and go ahead and say it in public chat so ppl know why. 
Mal, it sounds to me like you are a great patron... if more people were like you, I'll lay odds that there'd be more live entertainers everywhere, including on the high end worlds.
Again.... I do not avoid high-end worlds due to money and I do not have any notion to ever quit dancing over it. My character dances because both she loves it, and I love it. Nothing any patron can do would change that. BUT, the reality is that others AFKing and lack of tips and such have driven many otherwise-good performers either out of the profession or out of the game (or at least out of the public venues). And I think if more patrons were like you, more of those performers would still be around to heal and entertain you.
C
Well, I'm guessing I'm going to be pretty unpopular here, but what the heck...
I'm an "AFK Dancer" myself as of yesterday, thanks to a holocron, and I would imagine I'm not alone.
You might consider that those of us who do this aren't necessarily doing so willingly, but because it's a necessary next step towards becoming a Jedi; something which was the central driving reason for why we bought the game in the first place.
As a result, the quickest, easiest, and (to me) least disruptive way of doing this (for you and us) would seem to be going to the cantina in Theed, Coronet, or one of the other big cities, and doing the AFK macro thing until such time that we've mastered the profession. Atthat point. I'm sure each and every one of us will delete every skill point we spent in this profession, and get out of the cantina (other than when we need healing). And no, I've never wanted a tip. Those few times I've ever gotten a tip (whether via entertaining or healing) I've given the money back. Oh, and before someone mentions the issue, NO, I am not going to go do the AFK thing in private, and I doubt anyone else will either. Would you want to be a weaponsmith, for example, any longer than you absolutely had to, if that were what you needed to do to achieve your objective?
And for the record... yes, I always tipped (250, 500, or 1000, depending on how badly I was hurt and the state of my funds) any entertainer or medic that helped me out, so long as I was financially able to do so. There have been many times (especially lately) when I've walked into a bar for15 seconds, and the 20+ member band healed me quicker than I could tip even a handful of people. Whenever I've been in that situation where there's 20 or so people, I've usually not tipped anyone. Sorry; perhaps you would consider that rude, but I can't afford to pay out even 250 credits to everyone for 100 points of healing (5000 credits for 100 points seems a bit much, I'd think). If you've got a suggestion on how I should handle that, I'd be more than happy to listen.
And yes, I've always tipped people who were AFK as well, though I'm guessing that's a faux pas here?
Well, I'm not mad at you Karballo. It's the situation that sux w/ the wanna-be jedi's, not the hopefuls themselves.
Of course you want to do it as fast as possible, and that for sure is cantina dancing afk with an auto join scripted. Most dancers don't really expect you to do it any differently, but surely you can see how it hurts real dancers who do enjoy this prof and want to be doing it.
It's not really like being forced to doweapon smithing to unlock the fs slot at all. Grinding w/ crafting is best done in practise mode, therefor you won't be flooding the market of the real weaponsmiths w/ bad wares or annoying the real weaponsmiths by being up in their faces in their stomping grounds... also, weaponsmithing mastery makes some sense since you will have to be making your own weaps once you do unlock the fs slot. 
I don't understand why anyone would want to be an afk dancer unless they are trying for jedi... what a massive waste of skill points. 
Just putting my two cents' worth, which is about what most opinions are worth LOL.
I recently started a 2nd account and am making this toon a master dancer. I try to be "live" as much as possible, but in order to level up and still keep a roof over my head, I have to occasionally AFK, however I am blessed with the fact that I have a home-based business and am working on the same puter as the game is on. When I do go AFK I inform the group I am doing so, and that if I am needed to send a tell as I can hear the beep and am able to respond right away. I prefer not going AFK, but sometimes am forced to do this.
It is also very frustrating to try to get into a group with so many afk'ers - if the leader is AFK you're just SOOL. I appreciate the groups where the leaders, if they have to leave or go AFK, pass the leadership on to a responsible "live" player.
The other thing about dancing on the other worlds away from the busy cantinas -you simply do not earn a greater amount of XP w/o a large group - the bigger the group, the more XP you earn. It's a simple as that. I know from combat xp from both my characters if I want better XP I go after harder game, so in many ways this evens out throughout the professions.
Now about AFK players in general. My other toon is a Master Doctor. I cannot begin to tell you how many hours she has put in, in a med center, and many times the traffic there has been slow, only to have a player come in for healing and immediately go AFK on her. They have the right to do this, but conversation with a "live" player certainly does make the time that passes easier, and the time it takes to heal seems to fly by faster as well. I have made so many friends on my server doing this, I treasure them all. I have also learned a great many things about the game with these conversations. I've been playing since the beginning of the game and I still LSN (learn something new) almost everyday!
Since starting my second toon as a dancer, I have observed this practice of AFK watchers as well. If you are a "live" dancer it's always nice to see a fresh face come in and have someone new to talk to.
So there are my two cents - I come to the game to have fun - hope you all have fun as well.
***Many things will catch your eye, but only a few catch your heart - pursue those***
A'lina
soon-to-be Master Dancer - Flurry
Panh To'Fola
Master Doctor and soon-to-be Master Combat Medic - Flurry