Dancer Archive
Thread: We Got /denyService
What if those dancers were all "withholding" by sitting down. Would that make you feel better about denial of service or would you decide "well, they need to be taught a lesson in why we dance!" too? Nevermind the "reminder" you felt you should also give them.
Maybe that's not how you meant to sound, but it's all a bit high and mighty of you to dictate to the rest of us that we MUST dance or play music out of the goodness of our heart or something. Because I guess, this profession doesn't even get the dignity of choosing who we benefit. Gee, thanks.
You're free to dance and heal whoever you like of course, just like now. If you don't mind healing everybody, go right on and do it. If you want to return tips, good on you. Have fun. If you want to lecture, fine. That's what /addignore is for. We seem to be able to ignore who we want and continue playing, but heaven forfend we dont' want to heal someone. Then I guess we're just supposed to stop playing and log off for a while. All or nothing.
That's us.
Hooray for the developers in this. Now and I can dance for the people I want to and exclude the jerks who just leech off my performance without my consent. Just like the doctors do. Just like the combat medics do. Just like everybody who isn't a dancer/entertainer/musician does.
People who demand tips will cetainly find themselves faced with the same issue as they. It's not as if there aren't any entertainers around, at least on my server, and plenty are Master Something or Other -- anybody who holds out consistently will simply find people turning their attention elsewhere.
I for one, am very very happy we have denial of service. It's about time.
Aa'Mi on Sunrunner
Almost Master Dancer, Master Entertainer
mostly Master Music
"The worry is not that responsible dancers will use it irresponsibly. The worry is that the irresponsible people will do so"
How? If, as you say, the irresponsible ones are all in Theed or Coronetin huge entertaining groups, how will denyService work to force tips? There's always gonna be a few responsible people in the big groups, so /denyService will be useless for those who want to abuse it in the way its critics are suggesting.
Please explain precisely how /denyService will be abused. Surely it can only be abused if the entertainer is alone in a cantina, and as you admit, the irresponsible dancers just don't go where XP is minimal. Anywhere else, and there would need to be a conspiracy involving ALL the entertainers in a cantina (and in Theed or Coronet that oftenmeans 15 to 20 people). I just don't think your fears are based on aclear assessment of the possibilities for abuse.
I think we'll soon find these fears to be groundless. As always happens, there are a few naysayers who arealways thinking that any change will bring the sky crashing down. If I'm wrong, the feature will be taken away, and the problem will be easily solved. Somehow I think some folks are making a Himalayan mountain range out of something that, if they looked closer, they'd find wasn't even a molehill.
I for one will not use it to force tips, but rather to deny service to those who have harmed me. The other night, I was dancing in a cantina, when out of nowhere a BH from the opposing faction came in and for no reason other than I'm a rebel, and he was a BH that wanted to show off,knocked me (ooh, EVIL Scary Dancer)down twice, then finally DB'd me along with many of my rebel friends in said cantina.
Later when he returned to the cantina, after getting some mind wounds, I would much rather haveused /denyservice, because then I could have kept dancing without HIM getting benefit. Of course, there were multiple entertainers, but it's the principle of it the new change thatmakes me happy.
Next time, if it happens again, I can keep on dancing, keep on mind-healing, and NOT be forced to mind-heal those who wrong me. Thank you for this!!!
Hankey,
You signed up for perpetual PvP by declaring a faction.. expect to get hit be the opposing faction anytime, anywhere. If that's not fun for you then don't declare. Though I thinkstopping the opposing faction from healing is a rather good roleplaying use of this command. 
In general, never wanted this command.. won't use it. Seems to be about a 50/50 split on these boards. I wonder were the devs "overwhelming" requests came from?
Min
I actually used it today on some guy who came in the cantina spewing so much hate out of his mouth he would make the KKK members proud.
The non-entertainers reported him for abuse, all the enetrtainers denied him.
I'll try and put my view forward here, and I hope I'm not the exception.
I'm a Master Dancer. I'm also a Master Artisan with some Architect skills (I was heading for Master Architect but skill points and the fact that Architect is so borked caused me to surrender most of those skills), and I'm into the Pistoleer tree (and surrendering Architect skills as I got to learn more Pistoleer skills).
Now, I'm in a PA that goes on many hunts a week, whether that be on Lok, Endor, Dathomir, Naboo or wherever. I'm the only Master Dancer (or entertainer come to that ) who comes on these hunts regularly. I'm also one of the few people in my PA who's specialised in pistols. When I go on hunts they are particularly protective of me as I have to get in close to use my DX2 pistol (it's got crummy range) as I can heal MW so quick they have hardly set up camp before I've healed everyone. As I have no scout skills they hang back and wait for me to climb those steep hills with no complaints. The medics love having me around for those all important Mind Point buffs. If we're on a planet that has housing, we find a shop and I heal up BF in there.
I've taken my skills as a dancer OUT of the cantina and put them in the field to everyones appreciation. The /denyService command may help with the occasional idiot in the cantina, but it's assuming that is what all dancers do.
Someone (and I forget who, forgive me) posted here that we would be better served having a /focus skill, to heal up someone at a greater rate/mindbuff quicker - THAT would of been of greater help to the dancer class than the rather limited /denyService command.
As it stands, the /denyService command is like a Sword of Damocles - respect us or else! For a class that is already mostly abused by all other professions, this does not help overall.
I don't need /denyservice as I have already decided as I need to free up skill points, the dance healing trees are gonna be the first to go. They can watch me do my fancy Coreographer dances with no healing anyways I don't need the entertainment healing tree either do I?
AaMi wrote:
Sinda, you're joking right?
What if those dancers were all "withholding" by sitting down. Would that make you feel better about denial of service or would you decide "well, they need to be taught a lesson in why we dance!" too? Nevermind the "reminder" you felt you should also give them.
I assure you, I'm not joking a bit. Note that I used the word "extort", as in "extortion". If there are other issues at work in that cantina - such as a crowd of abusive customers (something I've never seen), that's entirely different. But if the entertainers are using the /denyservice option as their default and demanding tips before they turn it off, they are abusing the feature and they are muddying the image of entertainers everywhere. What, you don't think we already have an image as greedy, spoiled, lazy macro-botters?
Maybe that's not how you meant to sound, but it's all a bit high and mighty of you to dictate to the rest of us that we MUST dance or play music out of the goodness of our heart or something. Because I guess, this profession doesn't even get the dignity of choosing who we benefit. Gee, thanks.
Every single one of us who took up entertainment knew this fact going in. We knew (or should have) that we were not going to get rich dancing or playing music. Why try to arbitrarily force other players to subsidize our profession without offering something tangible in return? That's why I've been so vocal about letting us offer more and better buffs - THEN I think we have a case for expecting pay for our services. Battle fatigue? Please!
You're free to dance and heal whoever you like of course, just like now. If you don't mind healing everybody, go right on and do it. If you want to return tips, good on you. Have fun. If you want to lecture, fine. That's what /addignore is for. We seem to be able to ignore who we want and continue playing, but heaven forfend we dont' want to heal someone. Then I guess we're just supposed to stop playing and log off for a while. All or nothing.
Well, before YOU get all 'high and mighty' and 'lecture' me, please consider my point -- /denyservice is going to be abused. That abuse will NOT help the image of entertainers one iota. It will only enforce the image of us as spoiled whiny boobs wiggling around in skimpy outfits and expecting to be paid for it. In the words of Raph (Holocron), "If it can be abused, it will be."
Tell me one thing that /denyservice will do that /addignore won't already do, except make the dancer feel like they have some kind of illusory power?
Now and I can dance for the people I want to and exclude the jerks who just leech off my performance without my consent. Just like the doctors do. Just like the combat medics do. Just like everybody who isn't a dancer/entertainer/musician does.
Do you invest the same resources and time into creating stims that a medic does? No? I can play for a long time with 150 or 200 battle fatigue, what's the urgency in sitting in a cantina watching an AFK twit in her underwear? What ONE positive, tangible thing do entertainers offer that can have a price attached? Answer: NOTHING.
That's all I'm saying, we need something of value to offer before we can insist on being paid. Until then, yes, we SHOULD be at the mercy of other players' sense of gratitude. It was that way before you took up dancing and it's that way for Michelle Branch and Elton John, too - none of them have the power to turn off their audience's ears on an individual selective basis.
I for one, am very very happy we have denial of service. It's about time.
You can count on reading the horror stories of /denyservice abuse, coming soon to a Dancer forum near you.
Sinda wrote:
I predict two things will happen:
1. MOST of us will never touch /denyservice. First, it doesn't really affect the target that much, especially if he can find other entertainers to heal his Mind. So I denied him service, so what? It's no more punitive than /ignore.
2. There WILL be those who abuse /denyservice. I will promise you this - even though I do not dance publicly in cantinas anymore, if I walk into one in my travels where a group of entertainers is abusing this new feature to extort tips from patrons, I will immediately start dancing and returning all tips given to me. And I will verbally remind everyone in the cantina why I'm doing it, too. I don't need Dancer XP, so spare me the threats of not grouping with me.
Okay, most of your posts are good Sinda, but you really lost it here. Your two points complete contradict each other. Point 1 says it won't be effective (it's no more puntive than /ignore). Point 2 says it is so effective people will be able to abuse it, and can be used to extort tips from patrons.
I can't count the number of times someone walked into the cantina with huge pets or decided to duel with their ground-shaking guns just for kicks. The "just go to a private cantina" argument doesn't work at all. Not until player cities are around, and even then... we'll see.
And.."extorting tips" is more like "dancing for payment". Sure that's not your way to entertain, but if others want to do that, why don't you let them?
I'm absolutely with Sinda on this. I don't care if someone is using /deny or sitting - if they are doing it to FORCE tipping, I'd most certainly dance for free in the middle of the cantina.
If you are not making tips, ask yourself why, because if there ARE people making tips on your server, I can guarantee that they're doing something differently.
"I don't care if someone is using /deny or sitting - if they are doing it to FORCE tipping, I'd most certainly dance for free in the middle of the cantina."
From the number of posts on this issue, a person coming to this game for the first time might think that extorting tips was commonplace among entertainers - heck, this thread alone seems to suggest that entertainers are the Corleones of the SWG world, holding a vicelike grip over the game, and with the ability to make any player an offer he can't refuse.The amount of hyperbole over this issue is staggering. I've seen not a single story - NOT ONE -on the forums about entertainers misusing /denyService. I wonder why that is? If it was going to be such a big problem, you'd think that it might have been noticed by at least one person by now.
Like I said before, I think some people are making a mountain range ofHimalayan proportions out of something that isn't even a molehill.
Ok my whole point of veiw on this is...
1. I don't really need the /denyservice. I just know that a lot of people wanted it.
2. The people who will use the /denyservice for tipping will be in big groups already, which everyone else will watch the other people.
3. I'm already in a cantina by myself, I haven't used it once yet. I might if someone spreads hate or sexual unwanted coments that I've asked to stop. And I would report abuse too.
4. If someone was /denyservice in my group just to get tips /removefromgroup! is handy.
5. I'm all for the concentrate on someone type deal, give more attention to someone and give them a faster heal, get my point? If you are concentrating on one person then other people would have a harder time to get healed, your concentration is elsewhere.
6. I didn't think that this post would made it so big lololol.