Dancer Archive
Thread: A Note about Red Light District and CM's healing mind.
novamarine wrote:
I just started a second character this weekend as a dancer and I have to say you people are downright angry. I dont understand this pride you have in sticking it to the CM. In all the time playing with my other character I have never found a dancer that wanted to go adventuring so why on earth dancers would be jealous of other class getting an ability they clearly dont want (healing mind damage in a cantina is useless) is beyond me. Then, on top of that, the correspondant brags about sticking it to the CM.
And you wonder why people don't tip you...
I don't understand how you could play a character less than a week and understanding anything. What anger we do have has to do more with the way some players regard our class, not with anything the Devs have done or not done. But since you haven't been at it that long (or perhaps you've been dancing AFK?) you may not be up to speed on that issue yet.
As my sig line notes, I am a Master Dancer but I am also a TKA/CH ... last weekend I went along on a hunt with friends and mind-buffed my group between fights. I have no fear of going adventuring, so maybe your anecdotal experience just doesn't justify generalizations?
Ravenmist, another heartfelt thank you for your hard work. Sadly, even though the Devs finally did change the name of the feature I'm concerned at the lack of sensitivity it conveys. I don't know the average age/gender of the Devs, but I can guess. If they saw nothing wrong with arbitrarily lumping all Dancers into whorehouses, I wonder what else escapes their awareness?
I'm losing my desire to play, gang. It isn't one big thing here or there, but a large pile of pebbles that have been stacking up from release day. The realization that the Devs may subconsciously agree with the view of Dancers-as-whores is another big chunk of rock on the pile.
Sinda, I know where your coming from hun. I also can't imagine what the dev (one dev, not all of them mind you) was thinking when he named it that. I think he had another imagine in mind but when confronted about him he honestly didn't make the connection I don't think. He thought it was harmless and didn't mind changing it when pushed on the issue. I wouldnt let that get to you tho.
All in all I think things are looking up for dancers as a whole. We have a lot more meaning and use in the game then we use to. We have a way to make money now not including missions. The general public is starting to value us more and show us a least a little bit more respect I think, I could be wrong tho. With the upcoming improvements we have in store for us I think most of us will have everything we could want really. Not including a few dream items like a system to let us build our own dances, couples dancing etc. Which who knows, maybe we'll see down the line too.
All in all I find the changes for the dancers encouraging. I'm doing the best job I can to get you all the changes you want and our dev has been as helpful as he can be so far with the hectic workload they all have. I can certainly understand one getting tired of the game and leaving, but don't let dancing be a part of that. The worst is over for us dancers, it will only get better from here. 
Sinda,
Sigh...I am right there with you 
I have gotten progressively more frustrated with the Dancer class (and therefore the game in general) since the last big patch, where I feel we were effectively sterotyped further by not being able to buff ourselves. Most folks think Dancers are no more than social butterflies who never leave a cantina for longer than it takes to buy a new fleshwrap from your tailor...the fact that we were overlooked in the whole buffing thing, just re-inforces that the devs think this way as well...very frustrating and sad for me.
I have been very vocal about it on these boards as well as in the game, but no one seems to care. Not even the other dancers seem to care much. Perhaps 90% of us really ARE just barflies...this is sad if its true, cause hunts with a master dancer or musician are FAR better and easier with much less downtime...and this was before the big mind buff patch.
I have 6 master dancers....and not a single one of them was born as an entertainer. ALL of my characters began as a class and learned skills that could fight and do destroy missions and be self-sufficient. I have NEVER depended upon tips to get the things I needed and wanted. Matter of fact...all my noob chars go out and do destroy missions till they make 10-12k and can buy some nice things to start my dance career in. I generally grind out Master Dancer before I move on too much more with those skills, then afterwards I make myself available to go out with others grouping. Most parties are thrilled to death to be able to have a Master Dancer along with them...its something they don't experience often and get spoiled to it quickly. I ALWAYS get re-invites from those kinds of outings and I can't begin to tell you how much guild recruitment my chars get. ALL of my master dancers have gone on to be masters in some sort of combat class. I have a TK Master, working on a second, I have a Master Pistoleer, another one close, one working on Commando.
I take up dancing for three reasons. Firstly, I find it to the be the absolute best way to meet people and make new friends on a new server. EVERYONE comes through the cantina eventually, and I find the best master artisans and best shops around to do business with. I have made some very good friends with outstanding artisans who are masters in their fields over the last few months and have referred countless clients to them as well as being referred to others via fellow dancers. Entertainers spreading the word about a business is priceless, as about every 5 mins someone pops into the cantina and says "Anybody know of a good (fill in the blank with artisan of choice)?".
Secondly, I make dancers to play with my regular gaming mates. I play with pretty much the same group of guys and have done so for several years. Most all the time I am the only rl female in the bunch. Most games I take on some sort of nurturing role for the boys...I am almost always the Cleric, the Healer, the Druid, the Medic, etc. I not only have enjoyed these classes but fancy myself **edit** good at them. When we decided to play SWG, I wanted a bit of a break, and my lover took on the role of Doctor initially. I took up pistol, but after my first trip into a cantina I decided I wanted to give dancing a go...and I was hooked. The guys got addicted to having a Master Dancer in camp with them and now when we finish up on a server and move to another, it is just a given that I will dance.
Thirdly, I dance because I LOVE it. If I hated the class, no way would I have 6 masters in it Yes, I am a power gamer and I enjoy the hack and slash like most of the guys do. I realize that a lot of females do not like this aspect of gaming and franky I thought it was a stroke of genius that Lucas came up with this whole entertaining/fashion aspect of the game. I know FAR more rl females who play this game simply because of that...and thats great...really. I love being able to log on when the rest of my 'gang' is not on and just dancing...buying pretty things and trying to make my char look appealing, making other people feel good, etc. I suppose its the 'girly' part of me coming out.
So I have to ask the jackasses like novamarine who already have us all sterotyped anyway...why can't we have it all? I like to fight...I like to dance. BIG WHOOP! But frankly I feel sort of like I have been punished because of my love for doing both. I am losing my will and desire to play this game much...and with Final Fantasy coming out towards the end of this month (hopefully), I think this will be my last month to play...at least for a while. Perhaps after leaving the game for a few months I can come back to a non-beta version that I can actually enjoy for a change and hopefully some of these most frustrating aspects will be worked out as well. When my gaming time becomes more frustrating than real life for me...its time to quit...lol
Good luck to all of you
Galpar wrote:
Can heal mind damageand slowly heal their own mind wounds and other players. Your going to lose a lot of Master Dancers/Musicians for this one. Why didn't theyjust give the Healing Mind Damage to the Master Dancer/Musician, wouldn't that have been easier to do and more logical?
Hmmm.... You're in a firefight. You're suffering from shell-shock. You need a boost to keep going or the squad of stormtroopers over the hill will snuff you and your platoon. Which is more logical? A medic giving you a stim of tranq or JoeBob musician pulling out his nalargon and playing a few riffs of Virtuoso?
I'm with the CM's on this one. Mind DAMAGE should be a short-term fix that is handled by a doctor (or a bartender!). Mind WOUNDS are more psychological in this game and get treated during R&R. That's where we come in.
I don't see any reason at all to have mind damage healed by entertainers.
Taboux wrote:
I am losing my will and desire to play this game much...and with Final Fantasy coming out towards the end of this month (hopefully), I think this will be my last month to play...at least for a while. Perhaps after leaving the game for a few months I can come back to a non-beta version that I can actually enjoy for a change and hopefully some of these most frustrating aspects will be worked out as well.
Good luck to all of you
Well maybe I'll see you around FF Taboux. I'm a pretty big FF fan, played them all so going to give it a shot. Don't worry people, I'm not leaving Star Wars and I'll still put in as much time as I am already to make sure you all are as well represented as I can until they can me. Just want something different to mess with on the side. (beat or am tired of all the other games I got already) I think FF won't keep me entertained for long tho from what I've heard and seen about it. It just doesn't seem like it has much to do in the long term, but hopefully it will be a nice distraction for a month or two.
Maybe I'm bias but I think Dancers are looking better and better as a profession all the time. Hopefully by the time you come back in a month or two we'll be ironed out to near perfection and you'll find it more enjoyable. I'll do my best to make sure thats the case.
I couldn't have it said better Tandava. Alot of good things have been added recently; of course, with so many changes there is the inevitable hiccup and the balancing, but I consider myself a patient person and look forward to the changes that are to come.
I'm gradually seeing a change in the attitude towards dancers as a whole. I buffed a few riflemen from my PA the other night that had never had a dancer buff before. I'm proud to say about one and a half hours later I got tells saying how fabulous it had been for them (note: they had died and lost the buff, it hadn't expired yet). They wanted to meet me for another round. My PA has learned to value my hard earned skills ashavemany other players.
Only recently have I become involved in the roleplaying aspect of SWG and I personally can't think of a better starting point or platform than an entertainer class. Those of you looking to find new avenues of fun and excitement should consider getting involved in roleplaying. SWG as a platform for roleplaying is pretty darn good.
It's dawn for entertainers in SWG; those who think it is dusk are mistaken.
I am a dancer and a roleplayer that's really all I do with roleplaying by far eclipsing dancing. I have what I consider is the best entertainment troupe on Kettemoor. Organized, fun, disciplined, creative. I am not a Master Dancer, I don't even have techniques one, but if you guys stepped into a practice of ours you'd probably think me insane. I have never danced professionally, I am not a real choreographer. I do not have a full band and a guild to provide for and we have not been dancing in cantinas together since day one. You don't need any of that to be good or have gigs or bring it together.
Dancers have had issues like everyone has, but as a class goes we've always had the tools we needed to do our job, be it healing or entertaining. Despite the fact that its an unpopular class, 4% or less in the polls that few people bother to vote on, we have gotten a lot of attention, and everyone has an opinion about us. "All news is good news".
We were very short changed when compared to some classes. All our dances but popular and basic were incomplete. None of our higher level dance versions were signficantly different from lower versions. We criticalled and fell all the time with embarrassing frequency for no mechanical reason at all, we were poor, our dances ate up huge action costs, We couldn't target who benefited from our services and were looked down upon.
In the last 3 months we have gotten new flourishes (bad ones true)
We have been given the option who we heal or not
We have been able to register in cantinas so people know there's someone in there
Men can go shirtless
We have a much better buff we can target for people to help them in crafting, healing or combat
And we are promised more:
better controls on choreography /changeband dance.... maybe /stopband and /startband moves
motion captured flourishes
new dances
eventual use of props and someday possibly couple dancing
promises of fixing the action cost differential
promises of adjusting the fall rate
more clothes for dancing
The ability to add to a cities healing rate with player cantina
I dare say an aging gaming population more interested now in entertainment with ready cash
Thats ALOT to look forward to and alot in such a short time that was addressed. Don't we have things to be thankful for? Are you having fun? Last night we had a dance practice with 3 costume changes to work on a big upcoming gig. We danced and discussed and changed clothes for 2.5 hours.
Tonight we have someone renting a cantina for a romantic dinner so some of us are serving, the cook is cooking a dancer is performing for the start then the band plays for an hour behind a screen for them.
Thursday is a Fashion Show/Cocktail party we're playing cocktail waitresses serving drinks while the band plays for the runway models.
Saturday is dance review and jamming at a private cantina in a backwater roleplaying community
Sunday is a huge event at the same place where a crime lord hosts another crime lord and we have a production (yes production) of 7 numbers for them and I'm not that creative! I'm sure the people here could outdo me with their eyes closed
Sunday night go to a seedy cantina and sing bawdy pirate tunes and relax all with roleplaying in the background of very gritty dangerous themes.
Thats the kind of schedule I'd expect on all servers sometimes busier sometimes not, butI haven't run the gamut of dance ideas for the troupe yet, nor all the costume ideas, nor all the gig ideas.
I come here to find out the state of our profession, to learn from others and more rarely teach something I might know. But I also come here to be supported by other dancers who are dedicated to entertainment as I am.
I say the Dancer profession is just getting better. I thank Ravenmist, the Developers and the other dancers that and entertainers and friends that have helped make it so, and I intend to keep wowing people for some time to come.
well due to all those wounds inflicted while using healmind, Kavedawg (Warryc) has officially twi'lek-napped me and stuffed me into his backpack O.o
i wish the wounds are a tad less severe though, /healmind is a pretty high level ability, and it really does a number to your mind as i've heard, it's 30-45 per stat. good healing xp for my dancer though 
SlickRiptide wrote:
Hmmm.... You're in a firefight. You're suffering from shell-shock. You need a boost to keep going or the squad of stormtroopers over the hill will snuff you and your platoon. Which is more logical? A medic giving you a stim of tranq or JoeBob musician pulling out his nalargon and playing a few riffs of Virtuoso?
I'm with the CM's on this one. Mind DAMAGE should be a short-term fix that is handled by a doctor (or a bartender!). Mind WOUNDS are more psychological in this game and get treated during R&R. That's where we come in.
I don't see any reason at all to have mind damage healed by entertainers.
Exactly,
I'm a little shocked to see how Ravenmist started this thread. It's one thing to look out for your profession but another to make it a crusade against another...
Ravenmist wrote:
This has been an on going debate on the Correspondant forums. Not many where for the CM's getting the mind heal ability but the devs have made up their mind on this one so thats who's getting it unless something changes. I argued several points on our behalf with this debate and tried to get the wounds inflicted by healing mind damage as high as possible. ::evil grin:: Least we get something out of it this way.
As one of the first Master CM's I think this post show's the childishness of your class.
this "if we can't heal the damage i want it so that the ones that can must depend on us to help them"
Did you really expect for dancers to be on the battlefield dancing while others are fighting? Were the fighters suppose to stop looking at their target and /watch you?
Maybe medics should petition that dancers that wounds while dancing, dancers do fall, so that they can heal your wounds.
then we could have a huge cycle of..i need you, you need him....it's dumb
The HAM system sux. Instead of trying to make yourself more needed you should suggest a better System
Apollo
Kauri
I wasn't the only one that wanted the mind damage to be high, pretty much everyone did for one reason or another. The mind damage is to keep you CM's from using it all the time, not to help the dancers out so chill out and go troll elsewhere. I think things turned out pretty reasonable for you.
Ravenmist wrote:
Hello? Wake up people, I already said the damage to mind stats wasn't my bloody idea. It was the devs so stop crying already would you? At least stop crying about it to me. I wasn't the only one that wanted the mind damage to be high, pretty much everyone did for one reason or another. The mind damage is to keep you CM's from using it all the time, not to help the dancers out so chill out and go troll elsewhere. I think things turned out pretty reasonable for you.
I just don't see why a class should take wounds for healing another class. Mind damage should be healable I don't care by who as long as it not 10x harder to heal than action or health.
but to have to rely on a class which is rarely seen on the battlefield because the are too busy macroing their way to master or Roleplaying in a cantina 24/7 is rediculous.
I think dancers should take wounds for dancing...I know i've been inflicted by a bunch of wounds on my way to master
Apollo
Melampus wrote:
I just don't see why a class should take wounds for healing another class. Mind damage should be healable I don't care by who as long as it not 10x harder to heal than action or health.
but to have to rely on a class which is rarely seen on the battlefield because the are too busy macroing their way to master or Roleplaying in a cantina 24/7 is rediculous.
I think dancers should take wounds for dancing...I know i've been inflicted by a bunch of wounds on my way to master
Actually, if healing mind damage doesn't produce wounds (or has some other deterrent), then we would have an endless cycle.
CM1: I'll heal up the rifleman.
CM2: Your Mind is low now. I'll heal you, CM1.
Every benefit has to have a cost, whether it be in skill points, resources, or money. To heal someone's health and action, you need to incur Mind wounds or create some stimpacks.
And of course, all Dancers dance AFK. Your argument is so compelling there. *rolls eyes*
The Action wounds idea has been proposed before. I support it, actually. If Entertainers eventually accumulate Action wounds, then it adds to the cycle of relying on Medics. Also, it tackles the AFK issue. What you're suggesting (in bitter jest, I assume) has been thrown about already on this forum. I'd like to see it seriously considered, actually.