Dancer Archive
Thread: Dancer for about one year: Great, sure, otherwise I wouldn't have chosen that path, but pls ... :)
Panthu
Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:37 am
#14
JediCyndera wrote:
Panthu wrote:
Anytime a Dev will put aside his own vision for the desires of the players I think it's a very nice gesture.
Most of the time, yes. Anytime? No.
I can understand that, but in this special case I mentioned above (about IDs and us) I do not really see the decisive point ... I read the Devs opinion about it, why we should not be able to buff or statmigrate ourselfs), but -and that is not just my opinion- is no real reason ...
Any 'real' entertainer ALWAYS will have time for other players, to heal and buff them. Most of them are not that selfish and would ignore all others just because they have the ability to buff themselfs.
... believe it or not ,)
Huh? That is one Dev's opinion on why we shouldn't be able to do these things... most Dancers and IDs do want to be able to buff and migrate themselves. If this Dev put aside his feelings on the issue and gave in to the players' desires to do these things as a self service, I think that would be a nice gesture and a huge win for the players.
I think the Devs should always listen to the players, but I'm a corre and not a Dev so I'm a little biased, lol. 
RazorBlade79
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:06 am
#15
Sorry for forum lurking, all this is to be considered under the fact that I am no Dancer
You can find some infamous quotes from RS about the topic "why ID can't migrate their stats" here. This translates directly to entertainer buffs, which has been stated by a DEV in another posts, too. Heh, I imagine a FOTM template with fencer, ID and dancer Something of that must have been in RS's mind ... Sometimes I wonder if that "we play a couple hours a week is true for every DEV ...
Panthu wrote:K, guys, I tried to warn you about the Wound Healing. *shrug* It is in line with the Medic bonus even if it isn't really very exciting. When I put Keldarin on the spot about this in the Jedi Panel, this is what I asked about. As far as the Devs listening to the players, I would like to see more communication asap, but I think Keldarin gave in here and did this for us even though he is very busy.
You are quite diplomatic towards the DEVs for a player correspondent to coin it nicely.It could have been another Dev, but I think it was Kel and knowing how he feels about Dancers as Healers, I think that this is an over all win for "listening to the players." Anytime a Dev will put aside his own vision for the desires of the players I think it's a very nice gesture.
It's called throwing a bone. A potential nerf of the socializer aspect. He did it to shut the community up(ok probably not, it might just be a pointless gesture), how long do you think did it take him? 5 minutes? It won't help anyone, but it has the potential to hurt the profession. Why not something useful? If enhancing buffs is something too unbalancing (yeah right, as if that's possible at this point) then a DEV could have stated that.Maybe we'll get that talk RS mentioned. I'll email TH about it again and post in the Corre Forum. I know you guys want more direct communication, I do too. Maybe we'll be able to have something else for FS later, but for right now a little Wound Healing bonus is better than nothing (plus I think we are the only line that extends two base classes, that's kind of nifty).
I hope you are sarcastic here, for both of your last 2 statements. BTW, later means at least 8 months, JFYI.
You can find some infamous quotes from RS about the topic "why ID can't migrate their stats" here. This translates directly to entertainer buffs, which has been stated by a DEV in another posts, too. Heh, I imagine a FOTM template with fencer, ID and dancer
Something of that must have been in RS's mind ... Sometimes I wonder if that "we play a couple hours a week is true for every DEV ...Message Edited by RazorBlade79 on 06-28-2004 12:21 PM
JediCyndera
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:18 am
#16
RazorBlade79 wrote:You can find some infamous quotes from RS about the topic "why ID can't migrate their stats" here. This translates directly to entertainer buffs, which has been stated by a DEV in another posts, too.
Thx, that's the post I wanted to refer to.
Panthu
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:46 am
#17
RazorBlade79 wrote:
You are quite diplomatic towards the DEVs for a player correspondent to coin it nicely. Yes I am, thanks for noticing.
*snip* If enhancing buffs is something too unbalancing (yeah right, as if that's possible at this point) then a DEV could have stated that. I'm asking for more direct communication from the Devs straight to the players... so are the other 3 Ent Corres. Kwee is in a bit of a different spot, but she is asking too.
I hope you are sarcastic here, for both of your last 2 statements. I am almost never sarcastic.
You can find some infamous quotes from RS about the topic "why ID can't migrate their stats" here. Yes, I read that thread and the more detailed follow up in the Corre Forum where Jessi, Kwee, and myself basically freaked out on RS. Then I freaked out on RS in person at FF during the Ent Panel when all of his answers were different from Keldarin's. Just because one Dev says something does not mean that it is the opinion of the Dev Team.
I get annoyed too, and I'm not blind to our lack of attention, I just don't see how making any Dev the enemy could help. This isn't hostage warfare, we don't really hold enough cards here to be playing it that way. Even the things asked for by the OP are not wanted by the over all majority of Dancers.
I piped up in every thread asking for anything other than a Wound Healing FS bonus saying that yes, I know we would like these things, but I don't think it's going to happen here. I did this so people would not freak out when it did happen. You can go read my last six posts in here about it, or you can continue to believe I have no idea what's going on. *shrug* It was a nice gesture though... I'll say thank you for any bones I've fought for, even if they are minor. Doesn't mean I'll stop pushing for the things we really need though.
JediCyndera
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:11 am
#18
I am curious, Panthu: What is your opinion regarding that we should not buff ourselfs ...
I am not interested in questioning your person being corespondent.
There must be some reasons u are one, otherwise they wouldn't have chosen u.
I do not really care about persons here.
I just want to know:
Is it fair, that docs can buff and heal anywhere and themselfs and we cannot? (I am not looking at some possible negative effects now, I just wnt to compare)
And what about [b]their[/b] responsibility as some kind of socializer?
Did u visit a hospital recently?
Are there any Docs inside, healing and animating this builidings? No.
They are sitting inside the starports, buffing ppl.
Try to find a Medic or even a Doc that has time to come to a hospital, u will hardly find one. Perhaps somebody who needs XP ... but hardly any Doc will stand up, come to the hospital and heal you for some credits while he could make about I-do-not-know-whow-much-credits at the starport (even if he only needed some few minutes to heal you).
The hospitals, once places like the cantina- are also empty now.
I would like to hear your opinion: What is the difference between a Doc buffing himself and an Entertainer buffing himself (or an ID with his stat migration).
Regarding some templates of chars that will use all that to be perfectly independet: That is their choice.
But this is no Single-Player-Game, even if there are few player who consider being dependent on other players as ... I do not know. But most of the ppl who play such a game do this just because they want to interact with others.
I am convinced that it is not the majority of players that would expoit the ability Entertainers would have with buffing theirselfs.
Why can Docs heal everything inside a little camp while the whole group needs to travel back to a cantina to heal BF? Which group would do that??
There is actually no reason for an adventure group to take an entertainer with them.
Mind wounds? They do not care, they can meditate them away.
BF? Not important, leave it where it is, it cannot be healed in the wild. Further more, you do not need to fear BF, u are almost immortal with doc-buffs.
And entertainer-buffs? They do not need them, why spending about 10min watching when they could grab some brandy and food to enhance their mind (believe me, most of the ppl prefer chef food/drinks.
Take care
I am not interested in questioning your person being corespondent.
There must be some reasons u are one, otherwise they wouldn't have chosen u.
I do not really care about persons here.
I just want to know:
Is it fair, that docs can buff and heal anywhere and themselfs and we cannot? (I am not looking at some possible negative effects now, I just wnt to compare)
And what about [b]their[/b] responsibility as some kind of socializer?
Did u visit a hospital recently?
Are there any Docs inside, healing and animating this builidings? No.
They are sitting inside the starports, buffing ppl.
Try to find a Medic or even a Doc that has time to come to a hospital, u will hardly find one. Perhaps somebody who needs XP ... but hardly any Doc will stand up, come to the hospital and heal you for some credits while he could make about I-do-not-know-whow-much-credits at the starport (even if he only needed some few minutes to heal you).
The hospitals, once places like the cantina- are also empty now.
I would like to hear your opinion: What is the difference between a Doc buffing himself and an Entertainer buffing himself (or an ID with his stat migration).
Regarding some templates of chars that will use all that to be perfectly independet: That is their choice.
But this is no Single-Player-Game, even if there are few player who consider being dependent on other players as ... I do not know. But most of the ppl who play such a game do this just because they want to interact with others.
I am convinced that it is not the majority of players that would expoit the ability Entertainers would have with buffing theirselfs.
Why can Docs heal everything inside a little camp while the whole group needs to travel back to a cantina to heal BF? Which group would do that??
There is actually no reason for an adventure group to take an entertainer with them.
Mind wounds? They do not care, they can meditate them away.
BF? Not important, leave it where it is, it cannot be healed in the wild. Further more, you do not need to fear BF, u are almost immortal with doc-buffs.
And entertainer-buffs? They do not need them, why spending about 10min watching when they could grab some brandy and food to enhance their mind (believe me, most of the ppl prefer chef food/drinks.
Take care
Inkanissen
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:18 am
#19
Many docs are upset that they cannot heal wounds inside a Cantina. I think that it makes sense, if they could then it would invalidate Med Centres.
So now you want to heal BF outside a player house or outside the Cantina? If you could heal BF in a camp, that would invalidate the Cantina in many cases. If there is just one Dancer/Musician in a player group, why should they go back to a cantina when they can heal up in a camp? We need the Cantina, for a very good reason.
So now you want to heal BF outside a player house or outside the Cantina? If you could heal BF in a camp, that would invalidate the Cantina in many cases. If there is just one Dancer/Musician in a player group, why should they go back to a cantina when they can heal up in a camp? We need the Cantina, for a very good reason.
Panthu
Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:48 am
#20
JediCyndera wrote:
I am curious, Panthu: What is your opinion regarding that we should not buff ourselfs ...
Hmm, this thread is starting to give me the creeps... I think we should be able to buff ourselves. I thinkall of our Ent Healing (including buffing and location) should match Doc's healing. I personally do want these things. I personally am for anytime/anywhere Ent Healing, Self Buffing, and about a gazillion other things "healer" related.
The other Ent Corres who are against BF Healing being allowed outside of the Cantinas would point to your hospital example as the exact reason why we should remain so limited. Really, your argument is not very clear. However, the topics you are bringing up are discussed here often. Most regular posters have an opinion on these things, I don't really help anyone by stating my ownopinions. *shrug* It's the mass Dancer opinion that matters (thus the polls and what not).
I only popped in to this thread because of the FS grumbling. There was never any chance of getting self buffing at this time as an FS bonus that I saw. I do think thereare valid arguments there on both sides and on a million other things... the fact is, I didn't see that being offered here.
I fought for this (in the corre forum, in emails, and in person at FF) lame and small though it may be, I have no idea if my effort made a difference or not, but Wound Healing is what I thought we had a chance at. It gives us a little validation as healers at the least. It is in line with the other FS bonuses. These were never meant to be anything other than nice little SEA type bonuses.
Self buffing will be a new Ability... and yes, will take a lot more coding than adding on a little skill mod. I was trying to be helpful by explaining our position. If you would rather make your complaints with out me sharing the little bit that I know, that is fine too.
*zips up her lips again and goes back to taking notes*
JediCyndera
Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:36 am
#21
Now I now it was pointless to post my thoughts.
Nevertheless, thx for reading my 'inexplicit arguments'.
Keep on working for some 'little bones'.
Meanwhile have a look at the revamps other professions are dedicated,
just because there were enough ppl that cried that loud the devs simply could not ignore them.
Oh, just a few words concerning this sentence of you:
There was never any chance of getting self buffing at this time as an FS bonus that I saw (and some other statements you made).
In Germany, we have a proverb that fits. In English, it would be approximately like this:
'The one who dares to fight can lose ... who does not even start to fight has already lost.'
(Perhaps there is something like that in English.)
Think about that.
Take care.
Nevertheless, thx for reading my 'inexplicit arguments'.
Keep on working for some 'little bones'.
Meanwhile have a look at the revamps other professions are dedicated,
just because there were enough ppl that cried that loud the devs simply could not ignore them.
Oh, just a few words concerning this sentence of you:
There was never any chance of getting self buffing at this time as an FS bonus that I saw (and some other statements you made).
In Germany, we have a proverb that fits. In English, it would be approximately like this:
'The one who dares to fight can lose ... who does not even start to fight has already lost.'
(Perhaps there is something like that in English.)
Think about that.
Take care.
Vorpaks
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:10 pm
#22
Inkanissen wrote:
Many docs are upset that they cannot heal wounds inside a Cantina. I think that it makes sense, if they could then it would invalidate Med Centres.
So now you want to heal BF outside a player house or outside the Cantina? If you could heal BF in a camp, that would invalidate the Cantina in many cases. If there is just one Dancer/Musician in a player group, why should they go back to a cantina when they can heal up in a camp? We need the Cantina, for a very good reason.
But they can heal wounds right outside the cantina with a droid... so the med centers are already invalid. It doesn't make sense to be able to heal everywhere except for inside one specific building. If entertainers could do the smae thing it would be cool. And of course I have ulterior motives hehe. I would like my camps to be more than just eye-candy.
Traveling show anyone?
kirah_ashlin
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:35 pm
#23
Panthu would never say this, but I'm not her so I will -
How dare you come in here and smart off at Panthu who has been working for OUR best interests regardless of whether she shares each and every one of our requests or not?! You have donelittle in this thread but question her abilities and results in a snide manner that borders on rudeness. If you thought you could have done a better job then perhaps you should have been more involved in the forum all along and made yourself available for consideration when the position was open. If you are trying to turn people here against her(which is what it seems like to me) you are going to run intostrong opposition. Panthu is not our enemy. She is not blindly allowing the devs to placate her. She lets them know what our priorities are andpushes for what we want. However, she holds no authority with SOE - she's a player correspondent. She is only one person and one person can only do so much. If you want to affect changes within the game then join the letter writing campaign or IM or email the devs (politely, please). Don't jump on Panthu just because she's an easy target. Itdiminishes your attempt to spur more change instead of bolstering it.
Reiella
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:54 pm
#24
Groovymarlin wrote:Are you kidding me? Crafters have been freaking out about this, saying it's going to now make the max experiment points 14 instead of 12 or something (because the FS benefit stacks with skill tapes). Have they changed it? Two more experimentation points is a very big deal, especially to armorsmiths (trust me, I'm married to one)!
Reiella wrote:
Well, given that the experimentation benefit that crafters get is equally 'pointless' [at the Skill Box 4 level, it's the equivilant of being in a city with Research Center]. I think it was an intentional design effort to make the Force Sensitive bonuses relatively minor "And Nice, but Not Required", such as additional experimentation points or increased buffing capability would result.
Nope, not kidding. At least unless it's been changed.
In fact, as far as I know, those experimentation bonuses never gave extra points [and the crafting community assumed it was bugged, because just experimentation bonus seemed pretty weak].
Groovymarlin
Mon Jun 28, 2004 4:12 pm
#25
Wow, Reiella, it's true. No more promise of +14 crafters. Guess I should read the Jedi forum more often.
JediCyndera
Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:23 am
#26
kirah_ashlin wrote:Panthu would never say this, but I'm not her so I will -How dare you come in here and smart off at Panthu who has been working for OUR best interests regardless of whether she shares each and every one of our requests or not?! You have done little in this thread but question her abilities and results in a snide manner that borders on rudeness. If you thought you could have done a better job then perhaps you should have been more involved in the forum all along and made yourself available for consideration when the position was open. If you are trying to turn people here against her (which is what it seems like to me) you are going to run into strong opposition. Panthu is not our enemy. She is not blindly allowing the devs to placate her. She lets them know what our priorities are and pushes for what we want. However, she holds no authority with SOE - she's a player correspondent. She is only one person and one person can only do so much. If you want to affect changes within the game then join the letter writing campaign or IM or email the devs (politely, please). Don't jump on Panthu just because she's an easy target. It diminishes your attempt to spur more change instead of bolstering it.
Keep cool.
I never intended to do that what you accused me of *lol*
That's ridiculous.
I thought this forum is there to discuss, but obviously one cannot critizie anything without beeing attacked.
Best regards.