Dancer Archive

hey all, i have been thinking. With how the Devs are nerfing entertainers in the CU, why don't they at least do what they did with the poltical tree, make Entertainer, Dancer and Musician trees ZERO SP to learn. Then those who are those can keep it and put the Skill points made available into whatever combat classes they choose, as this seems to be what the devs want, all fighters. This way the devs can focus on combat and IMO, would lessen the slap in the face, they gave to Entertainers.

Its Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

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RavenPoe13 wrote:
hey all, i have been thinking. With how the Devs are nerfing entertainers in the CU, why don't they at least do what they did with the poltical tree, make Entertainer, Dancer and Musician trees ZERO SP to learn. Then those who are those can keep it and put the Skill points made available into whatever combat classes they choose, as this seems to be what the devs want, all fighters. This way the devs can focus on combat and IMO, would lessen the slap in the face, they gave to Entertainers.

Its Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

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Have to agree, (from memory) I said no to a SP reduction and don't forget that whilst the narrow minded development approach caused us problems the people that matter ARE aware of the problems the CU is causing to us. As such we need a little patience whilst they get this mess sorted out rather than screaming for a 'free' proffession.

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Loranna wrote:

IMO lessing the cost of it would not mean they dont have to work for it, the xp can still be required therefor the time still has to be spent on getting there.

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I'm not sure they've got this scaled right at the moment though. Now I know the time it takes to level any prof is going to change with the CU, so it doesn't work for post-CU, but even currently... I just did 2h-swords 1-4 of brawler with my MTK, because I know that is going to be required in the CU. Being careful and playing intelligently, without a doc buff and without once resorting to TK moves, I was able to get all 4 bralwer boxes in about 2 or 3 hours. You'd never be able to get all 4 dance boxes in entertainer in 2-3 hours.

I think this is part of the major problem with the game. Even when I was doing unarmed, it took way less time to do that in brawler, than to do the entertainer boxes. And once you get into the elite boxes, forget it... there is just no comparison. I'm working musician right now and it's been a while since I did dance XP so I will use music as an example. I have music knowledge 2. I am working on the knowledge 3 box. It takes 175,000 xp. My best instrument/song combo gives me 24 XP every 12 seconds (every double flourish), or 2 xp per second. That means it takes something like 24 hours of playing to gain 1 skill box. Now compare a TK level 3 box. It takes 350,000 xp to gain it, which sure looks like more... BUT, I can hit lairs of things that give me about 1,000 xp per creature, x 6 creatures per lair, plus lair XP, meaning I can earn like 7,000 xp per lair. A pair of missions is 14,000 xp, takes maybe 20 minutes. That means I can earn 42,000+ XP an hour, which means (even unbuffed, even playing in a non-uber fashion) I can get the level 3 skill box in about 8 hours (give or take), or roughly 1/3 of the time. Multiply this by the entire level 3 tier, and it takes a TK maybe 32 hours to get the same level of boxes it takes the dancer or musician nearly 100 hours to do.

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE AFK MACRO. The reason you don't see very many AFK macroed TKs or pistoleers is because it takes them a sane amount of time to level. You log in and play for 2 hours with your TK, and that tier 3 skill box is 1/4 of the way full. After a week of 2-hour evenings you have earned nearly 2 boxes. Do the same thing with your dancer and the XP bar may not even look like it has moved after two hours, and after a week of 2-hour sessions you'll have earned HALF A box. After a few weeks of that (if they last that long), people say, "Wow this takes too long" and give up and do the AFK thing.

They need to re-think the amount of time it takes to master these professions. A dancer who plays the game for 32 hours should be able to earn exactly the same number of skill boxes as a TKA earns for doing TK for 32 hours. Of course these numbers can't be precise, because the TK can use exploits and the dancer might be grouped or what have you, but a soloing TK and a soloing dancer should be able to earn skill boxes at the same rate.

To me, it seems like one way to solve the old "AFK" problem is to make mastering these professions less onerous -- and therefore, something people don't need to avoid. I am sure the logic was, "Well they don't have to take risks so levelling up should take longer," but that also means that levelling up is so slow that almost no one but a few nutters out there (like me) would be crazy enough to try to level it up by hand. Whereas people level up combat professions by hand all the time. Making it take longer is a mistake. Take a reasonable time, relative to the combat classes -- yes. Take 4-5x as long to get the same level skill boxes -- no.

This is one of the fundamental design flaws with entertainers, and they will need to address it after the smoke clears from the CU.

C

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CM_Ronin wrote:

The Entertainers role in the CU is to cancel their accounts.

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SpinningCloud wrote:

BTW, you do NOT need to get the new prereqs...like 2h for TKM...ahead of time. When my server came into TC3 I did NOT have 2h but I did have TKN and the respec automatically gave me the 2h line. Unfortunately it put me at -6/250 free skill points so I had to turn in enough to get to 250 or below in order to complete the respec.

But, we don't apparently have to worry...at least not with the last version of respec that they had on copies of live servers.

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Drygo wrote:

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SpinningCloud wrote:

BTW, you do NOT need to get the new prereqs...like 2h for TKM...ahead of time. When my server came into TC3 I did NOT have 2h but I did have TKN and the respec automatically gave me the 2h line. Unfortunately it put me at -6/250 free skill points so I had to turn in enough to get to 250 or below in order to complete the respec.

But, we don't apparently have to worry...at least not with the last version of respec that they had on copies of live servers.

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Finally! Somebody gives me a clue about this. I can't tell you how many forums I've spammed asking HOW THE HECK WILL THE RESPEC WORK FOR ME AS A DANCER/TKM??!?!?!

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system...

Let me see if I get this right. Upon logging on, I will automatically have the 4 2h boxes, but will be in negative xp. I will have to drop some boxes so that my sp allocation is 250 or lower. I'm assuming that in order to do this, I'm going to have to drop Master TK, and some boxes in the elite TK tree. This means I'll have to regrind all of those boxes even though I legitimately should be able to keep that Master TK status. (Patently unfair of course) Unless, of course, by some miracle, the boxes I can drop are entertainer boxes. So, my question is, *can* we drop ent boxes or will it have to be TK?

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In this one case, you can drop Ent because you are just needing free SP. So, yeah, Master Dancer and one of the Dance XP lines would be the smartest to drop because they are the easiest to get back.

This is how I _think_ it will work based on the last version I saw... I was waiting on Starsider to really test this though. AFAIK though, this plan should be fine.

You will need to drop these boxes the normal way though and not inside the Conversion UI I think. (again, it was this way last version I saw)

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Panthu wrote:

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Drygo wrote:

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SpinningCloud wrote:

BTW, you do NOT need to get the new prereqs...like 2h for TKM...ahead of time. When my server came into TC3 I did NOT have 2h but I did have TKN and the respec automatically gave me the 2h line. Unfortunately it put me at -6/250 free skill points so I had to turn in enough to get to 250 or below in order to complete the respec.

But, we don't apparently have to worry...at least not with the last version of respec that they had on copies of live servers.

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Finally! Somebody gives me a clue about this. I can't tell you how many forums I've spammed asking HOW THE HECK WILL THE RESPEC WORK FOR ME AS A DANCER/TKM??!?!?!

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system...

Let me see if I get this right. Upon logging on, I will automatically have the 4 2h boxes, but will be in negative xp. I will have to drop some boxes so that my sp allocation is 250 or lower. I'm assuming that in order to do this, I'm going to have to drop Master TK, and some boxes in the elite TK tree. This means I'll have to regrind all of those boxes even though I legitimately should be able to keep that Master TK status. (Patently unfair of course) Unless, of course, by some miracle, the boxes I can drop are entertainer boxes. So, my question is, *can* we drop ent boxes or will it have to be TK?

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In this one case, you can drop Ent because you are just needing free SP. So, yeah, Master Dancer and one of the Dance XP lines would be the smartest to drop because they are the easiest to get back.

This is how I _think_ it will work based on the last version I saw... I was waiting on Starsider to really test this though. AFAIK though, this plan should be fine.

You will need to drop these boxes the normal way though and not inside the Conversion UI I think. (again, it was this way last version I saw)

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Ah, how logical. I didn't even think of that. Drop the skills before doing the respec. Cool.

But, I am NOT dropping Master Dancer, Pan. Blasphemy! (I'll probably be dropping Master Entertainer and the ID boxes in Ent.)

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Drygo wrote:

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Panthu wrote:

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Drygo wrote:

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SpinningCloud wrote:

BTW, you do NOT need to get the new prereqs...like 2h for TKM...ahead of time. When my server came into TC3 I did NOT have 2h but I did have TKN and the respec automatically gave me the 2h line. Unfortunately it put me at -6/250 free skill points so I had to turn in enough to get to 250 or below in order to complete the respec.

But, we don't apparently have to worry...at least not with the last version of respec that they had on copies of live servers.

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Finally! Somebody gives me a clue about this. I can't tell you how many forums I've spammed asking HOW THE HECK WILL THE RESPEC WORK FOR ME AS A DANCER/TKM??!?!?!

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system...

Let me see if I get this right. Upon logging on, I will automatically have the 4 2h boxes, but will be in negative xp. I will have to drop some boxes so that my sp allocation is 250 or lower. I'm assuming that in order to do this, I'm going to have to drop Master TK, and some boxes in the elite TK tree. This means I'll have to regrind all of those boxes even though I legitimately should be able to keep that Master TK status. (Patently unfair of course) Unless, of course, by some miracle, the boxes I can drop are entertainer boxes. So, my question is, *can* we drop ent boxes or will it have to be TK?

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In this one case, you can drop Ent because you are just needing free SP. So, yeah, Master Dancer and one of the Dance XP lines would be the smartest to drop because they are the easiest to get back.

This is how I _think_ it will work based on the last version I saw... I was waiting on Starsider to really test this though. AFAIK though, this plan should be fine.

You will need to drop these boxes the normal way though and not inside the Conversion UI I think. (again, it was this way last version I saw)

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Ah, how logical. I didn't even think of that. Drop the skills before doing the respec. Cool.

But, I am NOT dropping Master Dancer, Pan. Blasphemy! (I'll probably be dropping Master Entertainer and the ID boxes in Ent.)

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/nod me too..and I'm going to be grumpy for a few days as a result. Then on the other hand..I might just decide that I like my mando more. The process described by SpinningCloud is a little different than how it was for me when the Chilastra copy was on test. But we were aware that the process would be evolving.