Dancer Archive

Thread: Questions from a PvPer (I'm asking, cause I'm honestly wondering)

AmonTdow
Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:19 am
#1
First of all, I do apologize, it's people like me who have made your profession annoying for some, Wether it be AFK buffbots, or fighting in cantina's, etc.

Honestly at the time I didn't think anything of it, Till I (some how) got grouped with a bunch of Ents in a cantina and they were doing a routine, it was very cool. Nice to see people still having a blast in this prof (it was my wifes first mastered prof, I laughed and asked why? You can't fight with that. YAY ME I got to empty the cat litter that night).

Anyway...

I have some honest questions, I'm not here for flames, or for a debate on things.

1) Inspiration buff? I can't find info on there ANYWHERE (searched came up with some discussions how it works, but not what it is)

2) Yes, I'm evil, I have an alt tailor/Dancer/Politician who runs my guilds city. Is there *ANY* point (yes I honestly would rather have a live ent sit in our cantina 24/7 [our guild is a world wide guild, people in almost every country so when I'm not on I leave her AFK dancing, cause people are just getting up when I'm heading to be]) to having a Dancer, or a musician alt after CU? (I know some would rather say no, just to have me cancel so a live ent gets someone watching them, But I want an honest opinion).

3) I've heard, macroing Dancer/musician (or actually just about anything) is now gone with CU also

4) How, as a guild leader, would I attract some Ents into my guild? Remember, my guild is heavly pvp setup. 120 Characters, spread across 40-50 people.

15-20 PvP daily, 10-15 more do a lot PvE/crafting, and the rest are crafting only.

Message Edited by AmonTdow on 04-27-2005 03:34 PM

Tralmek
Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:39 am
#2
I'll see what I can do here....





AmonTdow wrote:
First of all, I do apologize, it's people like me who have made your profession annoying for some, Wether it be AFK buffbots, or fighting in cantina's, etc.

Honestly at the time I didn't think anything of it, Till I (some how) got grouped with a bunch of Ents in a cantina and they were doing a routine, it was very cool. Nice to see people still having a blast in this prof (it was my wifes first mastered prof, I laughed and asked why? You can't fight with that. YAY ME I got to empty the cat litter that night).

And rightfully so!

Anyway...

I have some honest questions, I'm not here for flames, or for a debate on things.

1) Inspiration buff? I can't find info on there ANYWHERE (searched came up with some discussions how it works, but not what it is)


The Inspiration buff grants a bonus of 5% to xp gain. (We don't yet know which skills it does not grant bonus xp for, only that the number was "expanded" during testing, telling us that there are still some out there that don't gain any benefit) In addition, the Inspiration buff will give a bonus to the initial crafting rolls, allowing crafters to get better successes.

2) Yes, I'm evil, I have an alt tailor/Dancer/Politician who runs my guilds city. Is there *ANY* point (yes I honestly would rather have a live ent sit in our cantina 24/7 (our guild is a world wide guild, people in almost every country so when I'm not on I leave her AFK dancing, cause people are just getting up when I'm heading to bed) to having a Dancer, or a musician alt after CU? (I know some would rather say n, just to have me cancel so a live ent gets someone watching them, But I want an honest opinion.


IMHO, there was no real need or point to have one BEFORE the CU. Afterward, it will be totally pointless, because a 5% xp gain or a slight bonus to crafting success isn't going to make a huge difference in the long run. Other things already give these bonuses.

3) I've heard, macroing Dancer/musician (or actually just about anything) is now gone with CU also


Sadly, the ability to AFK macro is still there, even if there is no real benefit whatsoeverin doing it with Entertainers anymore.

4) How, as a guild leader, would I attract some Ents into my guild? Remember, my guild is heavly pvp setup. 120 Characters, spread across 40-50 people.

15-20 PvP daily, 10-15 more do a lot PvE/crafting, and the rest are crafting only.


Talk to Entertainers in cantinas, many (especially newbies) will be happy to have friends and a place to call home. Also, crafters can move themselves into a cantina and craft while talking with or even just providing company for Entertainers. As soon as we see how friendly, kind, and supportive guilds are, we start making decisions on which guilds we're willing to join. Mostly, just be nice...tip generously when you can...and treat the Entertainer like another human being and not a mindless drone.







Feeling no connection with the Force since 2003
*feels an outer glow*. The HAWT side is with me
Have a question? Read the Stickies!
Remember: Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
Official AFKophobe

Ikewe
Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:47 am
#3






AmonTdow wrote:

1) Inspiration buff? I can't find info on there ANYWHERE (searched came up with some discussions how it works, but not what it is)


The inspiration buff is a "buff" that will increase certain things for the person watching or listening. It does NOT affect HAM. It will, for example, give a 5% increase in theamount experience points earned for combat players or a 5% increase in faction points earned.

2) Yes, I'm evil, I have an alt tailor/Dancer/Politician who runs my guilds city. Is there *ANY* point (yes I honestly would rather have a live ent sit in our cantina 24/7 (our guild is a world wide guild, people in almost every country so when I'm not on I leave her AFK dancing, cause people are just getting up when I'm heading to bed) to having a Dancer, or a musician alt after CU? (I know some would rather say n, just to have me cancel so a live ent gets someone watching them, But I want an honest opinion.


Do you actually play your alt? If not I can't begin to answer that for you because I don't see the point in having a character you don't enjoy playing. If you do play your alt then all you have really lost is a "marketable" buff ability for your dancer.

3) I've heard, macroing Dancer/musician (or actually just about anything) is now gone with CU also


Where did you hear this? To my knowledge afk macros are here to stay.

4) How, as a guild leader, would I attract some Ents into my guild? Remember, my guild is heavly pvp setup. 120 Characters, spread across 40-50 people.
15-20 PvP daily, 10-15 more do a lot PvE/crafting, and the rest are crafting only.


How did you attract the other professions? Although you seem to not understand the mind set behind those who choose the entertainer professions (unless having to clean the litter box gave you a bit of new insight :smileytongue we actually are not that much different from every other player you might have met. We enjoy being an active part of a community. If your guild as a whole thinks of entertainers as an alt profession then you are not going to be able to attract and keep entertainers because that's how they'll be treated. You mention "...would rather have a live ent sit in our cantina 24/7..." I'd suggest that if that's what you are expecting you are not going to find any. Unless your cantina is really exciting and filled with amazing content? Start thinking of entertainers as fellow gamers and offer them the same things you offer to fellow combatants.. and I don't mean assistance with hunting, armor, and weapons. Offer them respect for their chosen profession, fellowship, and a fun environment and they'll gladly join your guild. But treat them like their chosen elite profession, which may have taken them months to achieve, is only useful to you for 110seconds every 2 hours and expect them to be happy simply sitting in your cantina all day everyday and no amount of free houses, speeders, or credits are going to bring any entertainers to your door.




Ikewe, Master Dancer, Shadowfire
When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.


Cendatinea
Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:49 am
#4
Ah, saw your post in the Musician forums before I saw this one so I responded there.



Lady Derianadai Hirunmil
"If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands."
Passing out tackle hugs to the whole galaxy!


AmonTdow
Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:23 pm
#5
4) How, as a guild leader, would I attract some Ents into my guild? Remember, my guild is heavly pvp setup. 120 Characters, spread across 40-50 people.
15-20 PvP daily, 10-15 more do a lot PvE/crafting, and the rest are crafting only.

How did you attract the other professions? Although you seem to not understand the mind set behind those who choose the entertainer professions (unless having to clean the litter box gave you a bit of new insight :smileytongue we actually are not that much different from every other player you might have met. We enjoy being an active part of a community. If your guild as a whole thinks of entertainers as an alt profession then you are not going to be able to attract and keep entertainers because that's how they'll be treated. You mention "...would rather have a live ent sit in our cantina 24/7..." I'd suggest that if that's what you are expecting you are not going to find any. Unless your cantina is really exciting and filled with amazing content? Start thinking of entertainers as fellow gamers and offer them the same things you offer to fellow combatants.. and I don't mean assistance with hunting, armor, and weapons. Offer them respect for their chosen profession, fellowship, and a fun environment and they'll gladly join your guild. But treat them like their chosen elite profession, which may have taken them months to achieve, is only useful to you for 110seconds every 2 hours and expect them to be happy simply sitting in your cantina all day everyday and no amount of free houses, speeders, or credits are going to bring any entertainers to your door.





Aye, that is one of problem, the other people were attracted for various reasons 1) Were one of the biggest Imperial Guilds 2) We PvP a lot, which generates visiliblity for our Guild tag. 3) Crafters came, cause we offered them support and what they needed to survivie.

I'm just not sure what can be offered to a "social" profession. a lot of our people PvP or hunt. End of story.

A couple of the Entertainers I know, have no urge to do either. So it gets drawn into the "Weird silence" zone.

Where we sit looking at each others toon.

As for offering them things we offer other guildmates? 90% PvP armor, PvP weapons, etc. Not much good to a entertainer. It's not that we don't respect dancer/musicians (friend of mine plays a musician and he's quit good at putting a show together with his friends). But I'm not sure what viably a PvP/crafting guild could offer someone who is into the more social aspect. Mind you, we are chatty, we always have at on of people on ventrilo talking, etc. I'm just trying to make my guild ent friendly.

I'm just trying to get some insite
Ikewe
Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:07 pm
#6
I will tell you I am one of those entertainers who absolutely hates the label "social" profession. I hate it because it is misleading. People tend to think it means that entertainers just want to talk. Other players talk while they are hunting, killing, or crafting and no one labels them "the social combateers" or whatever. By adding this "social profession" label the system instantly creates a barrier between the professions.


You say you can't offer entertainers the same thing you offer the others because those tangible things aren't meaningful. And you are right (except for the hybrid entertainers who also like combat). But think of the non-tangible items. That's what you have to offer. When your guild goes hunting do you think "we'll need healing while we're out there so we need a ranger camp or a house and Joe and Jill our entertainers"? Or do you think, I'll need time to load up my alt or hit the local buffhouse? Pure entertainers may not know which end of the T-21 to hold but they still want to be included in activities.


Think of it this way. When you are out hunting you are essentially just watching each other's toons or the NPC toons. But it's still fun because you are interacting and accomplishing a goal together. It's no different for entertainers. It maybe that our goal is to create a really eyecatching or toe-tapping performance, or keep our fighters going during battle.


When I was in a guild, I went along on hunts and even participated, as a combatant, in base defenses. At the end, of the fight I was able to keep providing assistance by dancing and talking about our wins or losses. We really are not so different. Don't let the "social profession" title fool you into thinking we are.



Ikewe, Master Dancer, Shadowfire
When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.


Panthu
Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:48 pm
#7




AmonTdow wrote:


..., cause we offered them support and what they needed to survivie.



That's how you'll get Ents too, you just want Ents who A) like pvp and being around it and B) like voice chat. On your side, you just need to get enough Ents that you aren't expecting any one of them to be available 24/7 (which, with the changes after the CU, you shouldn't even feel like you need that).




P A N T H U Y GlitterUsagi
M i n d B o d y S p i r i t
Dancer ImageDesigner Doc

Kyree-Sunrunner
Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:10 pm
#8
AmonTdow wrote:
4) How, as a guild leader, would I attract some Ents into my guild? Remember, my guild is heavly pvp setup. 120 Characters, spread across 40-50 people.
15-20 PvP daily, 10-15 more do a lot PvE/crafting, and the rest are crafting only.

How did you attract the other professions? Although you seem to not understand the mind set behind those who choose the entertainer professions (unless having to clean the litter box gave you a bit of new insight :smileytongue we actually are not that much different from every other player you might have met. We enjoy being an active part of a community. If your guild as a whole thinks of entertainers as an alt profession then you are not going to be able to attract and keep entertainers because that's how they'll be treated. You mention "...would rather have a live ent sit in our cantina 24/7..." I'd suggest that if that's what you are expecting you are not going to find any. Unless your cantina is really exciting and filled with amazing content? Start thinking of entertainers as fellow gamers and offer them the same things you offer to fellow combatants.. and I don't mean assistance with hunting, armor, and weapons. Offer them respect for their chosen profession, fellowship, and a fun environment and they'll gladly join your guild. But treat them like their chosen elite profession, which may have taken them months to achieve, is only useful to you for 110seconds every 2 hours and expect them to be happy simply sitting in your cantina all day everyday and no amount of free houses, speeders, or credits are going to bring any entertainers to your door.





Aye, that is one of problem, the other people were attracted for various reasons 1) Were one of the biggest Imperial Guilds 2) We PvP a lot, which generates visiliblity for our Guild tag. 3) Crafters came, cause we offered them support and what they needed to survivie.

I'm just not sure what can be offered to a "social" profession. a lot of our people PvP or hunt. End of story.

A couple of the Entertainers I know, have no urge to do either. So it gets drawn into the "Weird silence" zone.

Where we sit looking at each others toon.

As for offering them things we offer other guildmates? 90% PvP armor, PvP weapons, etc. Not much good to a entertainer. It's not that we don't respect dancer/musicians (friend of mine plays a musician and he's quit good at putting a show together with his friends). But I'm not sure what viably a PvP/crafting guild could offer someone who is into the more social aspect. Mind you, we are chatty, we always have at on of people on ventrilo talking, etc. I'm just trying to make my guild ent friendly.

I'm just trying to get some insite



My guild knows I have a CDEF pistol and no armor, but I have some scout skills which increase my movement rate and allow me to harvest hides and such. I'm also a novice medic, so I can wield a stim B. I'm under no illusion that my pistol can actually do any measurable damage, so I tend to chase after people with my stims and ignore the combat.

The guild learned all this by inviting me to go hunting with them before I became a member. I hung out with them for around a week and got to know them, and they got to know me before an invitation was issued and accepted. They didn't put me in an 'entertainer box'... they invited me to fun things and let me participate how I chose to. They respected my profession choices and never treated me as an 'alt' character.

There are many different types of entertainers. Some live for the cantina life and others enjoy the excitement of being a 'camp dancer/musician'. A way for you to perhaps find the type that might be attracted to your combat active guild might be to talk to some of the entertainers in the various cantinas and offer to hire them for going along on a hunt. You could also advertise on your server board for camp dancers/musician.

Message Edited by Kyree-Sunrunner on 04-27-2005 09:13 PM

PoetDancer
Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:12 pm
#9


Thank you for posting such a respectful thread AmonTdow.


The inspiration buffs are an attempt to give players a nice reason to see shows, yet in a way that does not make it "vital" for a patron to see a show. For the longest time, the "mechanical" aspects of what we do got in the way of the "performance" aspects. Buffing efficiently at high percentages in the old system had very little do do with the attempt to stage a good performance, which is why buffbots seemed to thrive in the old system. Also, staging a good performance oftentimes got in the way ofdistributing the mechanics. We would have to disband from our synch groups, or break our causal and lighthearted routine to keep track of time and coach players through a sequence. Whatever our feelings may be on the subjects of transparency, passivity, or a two tiered service system (/watch or /watch with buff), this was a good faith attempt to redefine the cantina subsystem in a way that promoted the good aspects of the cantina at the expense of those bad aspects.


Which then leads us to the subject of your alt. If it were me, and I would not find any pleasure in creating performances in venues for a diverse clientele, I would cancel it or perhaps make a nice merchant and shipwright. It seems to me that any utility in keeping such a character has been eliminated. That does not mean that the profession has lost its utility, but what it does mean is that the things one goes to the cantina to receive will be much more readily available and much less "vital" than before, and can be rather easily obtained from those that are committed to the professions, namely, us.


Which brings me to the point of entertainers and guilds.


Personally (and I do admit I am the exception), I think that entertainers, as a general rule, have a much richer game experience outside the guildsystem than in it.


Before you crucify me, understand thesubtle nature of these professions, the needs of the people who play them, the way the professions earn their finances, and the unique position they are in, and it may become quite clear to you why it may be in your interest to make entertainers the one group of professions that you should not tag.


Membership ina guild, for me at least (and I have been in both circumstances), hurts me more than it helps me as an entertainer. Not only that, but I would argue that I can be much, much more valuable to a guild as an unguilded entertainer than I ever, ever could as a guilded one.


Because for us, part of the appeal of these professions for many is the ability to perform for a wide array of clientele from all sorts of guilds and factions who are travelling through to catch a show at the local cantina. In fact, it is crucial that we do so, now more than ever. These professions do not sell goods, and they are judged on manysubjective and interpretive factors. And guild tags--rightly or wrongly--may get in the way of fostering good feelings between the entertainer and the patrons. If I am in a PvP guild, and a member of my guild kills the patron that enters the cantina for service, then my guild tags become a burden to fostering the sort of atmosphere that gets me tipped.


In a guild situation such as yours, you can guarantee perhaps 15 to 20 fellow members. But for an entertainer, sitting in a cantina for the sake of 15 to 20 friends is not a very enriching game. Nor is it ultimately useful to you in the long run. Because wearing guild tags is a lot like wearing a wedding ring. We tend to be seen as "somebody else's," and when that happens, we cease to become an object of their concern. In one of the big cantinas, one can get three times that number of patrons passing through in an hour than you can promise in an entire day.


That is not to say your guild has nothing to offer an entertainer. They do. Nor does that mean I as an entertainer have nothing to offer your guild. I do. But as an entertainer, I simply cannot afford to let something like a guild membership get in the way of my own interests, and I have discovered that I lose more of a game by being wedded to a guild than I do on my own. Moreover, you as a guild lose more by "tagging" your favorite entertainer than you ever could gain by making them a member.


Make no mistake though. I can be very, very loyal to those guilds that look after me, regardless of faction. And my very position in key areas of congregation places me and all live entertainers in a unique position to assist your guild, should you get on our good side. I take down names, tags, pick up tidbits of information I overhear, make a note of weaponry and armour, and have many, many contacts I have developed...on both sides of the GCW and in many guilds. Moreover, I am in a position to asist new players with finding a city or guild, andI direct them to the guilds and cities that treat me well.


All of that disappears however once I join your guild. Because if it is a large, successful, and active PvP guild as you say, an entertainer who is performing in a cantina displaying your guild tags is the last place any enemy of yours would want to congregate. Why stay in a place knowing that as soon as you walk in the door, your enemies know exactly where you are, know exactly what your are carrying, know exactly what state of preparadness you are in, and know exactly what allies you are grouped with?


If you were logged on to your Jedi, alone, and you had "been bad," would you feel comfortable having an entertainer from a guild that killed five of your guild's Jedi last week saying "hello dear" to you?


Or would you force run out of there, call your guild, and hope they get to where you are at beforeeight buffed, armoured, and stacked opponentsget to you?


If that is the case, why would you want to give your enemy the same advance warning by displaying your informants' loyalty on their sleeves for all to see and avoid?

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 04-27-2005 08:26 PM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Kobie-Pace
Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:01 am
#10






AmonTdow wrote:
First of all, I do apologize, it's people like me who have made your profession annoying for some, Wether it be AFK buffbots, or fighting in cantina's, etc.

Honestly at the time I didn't think anything of it, Till I (some how) got grouped with a bunch of Ents in a cantina and they were doing a routine, it was very cool. Nice to see people still having a blast in this prof (it was my wifes first mastered prof, I laughed and asked why? You can't fight with that. YAY ME I got to empty the cat litter that night).

Anyway...

I have some honest questions, I'm not here for flames, or for a debate on things.

1) Inspiration buff? I can't find info on there ANYWHERE (searched came up with some discussions how it works, but not what it is)


If I understand it correctly, Inspiration buffs which can be given by any entertainers, give you a boost to xp earned.A novice entertainer may take 3 minutes to give a full buff, and a master dancer will take 30 seconds.

2) Yes, I'm evil, I have an alt tailor/Dancer/Politician who runs my guilds city. Is there *ANY* point (yes I honestly would rather have a live ent sit in our cantina 24/7 [our guild is a world wide guild, people in almost every country so when I'm not on I leave her AFK dancing, cause people are just getting up when I'm heading to be]) to having a Dancer, or a musician alt after CU? (I know some would rather say no, just to have me cancel so a live ent gets someone watching them, But I want an honest opinion).


I agree with you on the need for bots for some reasons like you say, people getting up to play at weird hours of the night. I know I have gotten up at 4am etc (i dont sleep much) and there is no entertainer to be found anywhere. However, Im not honestly sure whats going to happen after CU. Best I can say is give it a try.

3) I've heard, macroing Dancer/musician (or actually just about anything) is now gone with CU also


Once again, I can only hope this is true, afk playing of any type annoys the crap out of me, but I am not sure if its now gone.

4) How, as a guild leader, would I attract some Ents into my guild? Remember, my guild is heavly pvp setup. 120 Characters, spread across 40-50 people.


Good luck...trust me. I myself am a guild leader of a PvP guild...and we have had a few bots over the monthes, most never really used. We had one live entertainer in our guild, the best on the server IMO. But due to another guild members bot, she resigned. Most entertainers (ATK) i think would rather not join a guild unless it were a specifically entertainer guild. They get hassled alot when in a guild of mainly combatters, to act as their personal buff bi'tch quite frankly. They get "told" to be the one to drop their city's cantina etc. They would much rather be guildless then put up with that crap.


One problem with most live entertainers IMO (and i mean no offense) is they are strictly cantina dancers/musicians. The one live entertainer we had in PACE, was the greatest *cough* hence why she became the dancer coorespondent *cough* She LOVED coming out to Endor, Dathomir for hunts or PvE to heal/buffs us and just watch. She also loved very much coming along following us around from city to city during PvP once again to heal and buff us and she also just liked watching and liked the action.

15-20 PvP daily, 10-15 more do a lot PvE/crafting, and the rest are crafting only.


Message Edited by AmonTdow on 04-27-200503:34 PM



Anyway, good luck to you man. Hope that helped at all.




[kObIe PaCe]
kobie pace(Elder Jedi) - eibok(Master Bounty Hunter)
queros(n00b Smuggler) - akeda evol(Lvl 80 Spy)
(bh deaths: 2)
[ That's how we roll]
Kobie-Pace
Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:13 am
#11
in regards to my comment about live entertainers not usally going out in the field with combatters. I know bots dont either, and i think if more live ents did, they would find more combatters hiring them to come along and probably paying quite well thats all.




[kObIe PaCe]
kobie pace(Elder Jedi) - eibok(Master Bounty Hunter)
queros(n00b Smuggler) - akeda evol(Lvl 80 Spy)
(bh deaths: 2)
[ That's how we roll]
Esharra
Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:23 am
#12




Kobie-Pace wrote:





She also loved very much coming along following us around from city to city during PvP once again to heal and buff us and she also just liked watching and liked the action.



Heh..you know I just love the trash talk. /hug Kobie




Esharra ěsh-äŕ-rä, noun
1. Entertainer
2. Bounty Hunter
3. Smuggler

"One man's oddity is another man's routine." -Bertos Goodner (a dancer)


Kobie-Pace
Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:25 am
#13




Esharra wrote:





Kobie-Pace wrote:





She also loved very much coming along following us around from city to city during PvP once again to heal and buff us and she also just liked watching and liked the action.



Heh..you know I just love the trash talk. /hug Kobie





Ok I wasnt going to say anything, but she did like being bound & gagged and whipped every now and againtoo...us combatters are ruthless!




[kObIe PaCe]
kobie pace(Elder Jedi) - eibok(Master Bounty Hunter)
queros(n00b Smuggler) - akeda evol(Lvl 80 Spy)
(bh deaths: 2)
[ That's how we roll]
Page 1 of 2
Previous Next