Dancer Archive
Thread: Here are some reasons why people go to buffbots
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StandUpWookie
Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:11 pm
#1
Okay before I start, I have to say I love the entertainers class and have several ent alts (none anywhere near Master) just for social roleplaying.
Most people dont know anything about Ent buffs. Hw much they can buff for or how long they buff for. So naturally they will gravitate toward anyone wearing the Master tag.
Buffbots will always get repeat customers simply because there "known". They are usually in the exact same place for weeks at a time. No need to search out different cantinas/rooms when I know Soandsdo is gonna be there 24/7 buffing away.
There is usually someone in the group and all you need to do is say Toss me an <insert bot name> invite please"
I dont know about other characters but once i get in the group and hit /watch or /listen I go afk for food or whatever.
NUMBER ONE REASON PEOPLE GO TO BUFFBOTS
People DONT like to tip. Tipping is a hassle and if you are an ATK Ent (even Master) we think you expect us to tip. Then it comes down to an amount. Then we have to think "hmm, what would be an appropriate tip" Then what if we tip to little and you get mad and publically say something. To much of a hassle. I would rather take my chances with a Buffbot who does not expect to be tipped (there are some who want tips and some who really have no need of credits). Does this mean we are cheap, no. Its just hard trying to figure out what to tip you all in terms of the servers economy.
The reason why docs do there thing well is because they /spam Master Doc "Buffs, 2400 BANKTIP 10k only, no overts"and they sit there manking money all day long.
Of course I dont know how well it would go over if a Dancer spamed buffs for prices, but there in lies the problem with bots vs mains.
I guess I am sympathethic to the plight of the ATK entertainer but just not motivated enough to bother with the hassle. I have met a LOT of rude entertainers and some nice ones as well. For me, and may others probably, the Cantina is a necessary evil. Like, oh crap now I gotta go back and get ENT buffs. I dont really look forward to the lag/spam etc...but its something that you gotta do. Sneak in get in a bot group sneak out.
Also, and this may or may not be an issue, a lot of character combat temps can effective PvE without ENT buffs (but we NEED doc buffs). I have my human maxed for mind (as every other human) and with brandy it doesnt matter. Of course it is much nicer to have full ENT buffs but they last shorter than master Doc buffs.
Well, flame away or whatever you want. It will be interesting to see what happens with the recursive macro. And as far as people making a list to /denyservice oh well..
SUwookie
Tiaga
Sun Aug 15, 2004 2:58 pm
#2
StandUpWookie wrote:Also, and this may or may not be an issue, a lot of character combat temps can effective PvE without ENT buffs (but we NEED doc buffs). I have my human maxed for mind (as every other human) and with brandy it doesnt matter. Of course it is much nicer to have full ENT buffs but they last shorter than master Doc buffs.
You NEED doc buffs? Really? I never have. I've been able to solo pretty much any starter planet spawns without buffs. Without even novice elite combat professions. Didn't even have to use armor. I did use brandy, but only because I was trying to get rid of some cheap stuff. (Low stats.) Some of it I could have done just as fine without brandy.
A decent group without buffs is enough to take down any of the original content.
Unfortunately, the newer stuff has had to be geared towards the assumption that people will be buffed because to do otherwise would make it trivial to any buffed group and likely solod regularly.
New content excluded, I don't see how you can NEED buffs unless you have really bad gear or bad tactics.
Tips, if I don't name a price I thank the person for whatever I get. I know not all are like that but to be honest I consider it rude to be upset about too little if you didn't name a price. To be upset about getting too little means you would have to have some price in mind, so why not just come out and name it already? It's like people selling something that tell you to make an offer then tell you it's too low.
Message Edited by Tiaga on 08-15-2004 03:00 PM
FuschiaD
Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:07 pm
#3
Agreed, Tiaga. For my ID work, I work for tips (except stat migrations). For dancer buffs, I have a set, nonnegotiable price - 5k. I think it's reasonable. Of course, anytime there's a buffbot nearby, I lose that business because people would much rather pay nothing than pay 5k.
Players have been allowed to become too dependent on buffbots, so much so that players now think they are owed the buffbots that can be found in any cantina. This needs to stop.
Esharra
Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:43 pm
#4
Tiaga wrote:
Unfortunately, the newer stuff has had to be geared towards the assumption that people will be buffed because to do otherwise would make it trivial to any buffed group and likely solod regularly.
This is a specific element of the long-term detrimental effect on player demographics that I have been referring to in threads with the context ofmethods of false characterdevelopment; such as unattendedplay, buffing and loot camping. Developers write to specific playerbase demographics and the effects of these elements create a false sense of what players actually know about playing a character.
How many players know or care what role a scout creature has in a spawn's behavior? It matters little to them when they're blasting their way through sharnaffs while covered with buffs but if they bothered to learn they might find that the higher, much more difficult spawns contain creatures withthe same behaviors and would be easier if the player would only bother to learn to use the spawn's behaviors to their advantage.
How many master dancers really know how to use the skills available to them? And don't get me started about the spiraling player based economy!! We had the opportunity to play a groundbreaking game. Most of us were too greedy to let that happen.
Playing your character, buffed until your nose bleeds does not make you more uber..it only makes you *think* you know what you're doing.
Esharra
Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:45 pm
#5
I've got to agree in part with the original poster though. I do think that a lot of the attraction of buff bots is that it is easier to stiff one than it is a live player who you might have to look in the eye again in the future.
Kitachiira
Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:15 pm
#6
StandUpWookie wrote:
NUMBER ONE REASON PEOPLE GO TO BUFFBOTS
People DONT like to tip. Tipping is a hassle and if you are an ATK Ent (even Master) we think you expect us to tip. Then it comes down to an amount. Then we have to think "hmm, what would be an appropriate tip" Then what if we tip to little and you get mad and publically say something. To much of a hassle. I would rather take my chances with a Buffbot who does not expect to be tipped (there are some who want tips and some who really have no need of credits). Does this mean we are cheap, no. Its just hard trying to figure out what to tip you all in terms of the servers economy. Tiaga is right. If the person doesn't state a price, then he/she should be happy with whatever is given. I always state my buff price up front before the buffing session begins.
The reason why docs do there thing well is because they /spam Master Doc "Buffs, 2400 BANKTIP 10k only, no overts"and they sit there manking money all day long. There is enough spam in a cantina. I won't do that. However, I do make it obvious I'm ATK and keep my master tag up when I am buffing. If I'm not buffing it comes down. Seems to work for me.
Also, and this may or may not be an issue, a lot of character combat temps can effective PvE without ENT buffs (but we NEED doc buffs). I have my human maxed for mind (as every other human) and with brandy it doesnt matter. Of course it is much nicer to have full ENT buffs but they last shorter than master Doc buffs. The only time I get doc buffs is when I'm going after big game (krayts or GDKs) or maybe the 'vette or DWB. Otherwise, I go without a doc buff and without armor. Oh, and I'm human and my mind isn't maxed.
Well, flame away or whatever you want. It will be interesting to see what happens with the recursive macro. And as far as people making a list to /denyservice oh well..No flames from me. Just merely statements and I don't /denyservice unless that individual really, really angers me. Usually involves them being ignorant to my friends and guildmates. So far only 3 have done that........
SUwookie
Groovymarlin
Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:25 pm
#7
StandUpWookie wrote:
Well, flame away or whatever you want. It will be interesting to see what happens with the recursive macro. And as far as people making a list to /denyservice oh well..
SUW, I would never flame you for a post like this, nor would most entertainers. You're simply stating some information that's important for us to know. WHY do people go to buffbots before ATK entertainers? What could we, ATK entertainers, do to be more competitive with the buffbots? These are questions we ask ourselves, and the insight of a non-entertainer can be very valuable in helping to answer them.
In fact, I five-starred you to make up for your one-star ninja. 
Yesterday, one of my regular customers went to a buffbot in Theed Cantina, even after he saw that I was there, live, and available to buff him. The reason he gave? He said my outfit was "ugly." (He didn't like the color.) I told him (in tells) that he had hurt my feelings and if a regular customer was going to patronize a buffbot instead of me, maybe I should quit. He responded by tipping the buffbot 5k and tipping ME 10k. Which, honestly, didn't make me feel better at all.
Hey, remind me not to wear those orange shorts anymore. 
kirah_ashlin
Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:46 am
#8
A regular customer didn't come to you for a buff because they didn't like your OUTFIT?! That is too ridiculous to believe . . . and I don't. He tipped you because you "caught" him and he was embarrassed more likely.
A few days ago, Roho and I were in the Theed cantina (with a buffbot present) when a former guildmate came in and we gave him buffs. The next day we were in Coronet and the same player came in and ran right over to the buffbot - past us - and didn't even attempt to acknowledge us. There was not a great deal of spam so it wasn't as if he couldn't "hear" us talking to him. Both of us are seriously considering not giving him buffs now . . .
rach
Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:52 am
#9
NUMBER ONE REASON PEOPLE GO TO BUFFBOTS
People DONT like to tip. Tipping is a hassle and if you are an ATK Ent (even Master) we think you expect us to tip. Then it comes down to an amount. Then we have to think "hmm, what would be an appropriate tip" Then what if we tip to little and you get mad and publically say something. To much of a hassle. I would rather take my chances with a Buffbot who does not expect to be tipped (there are some who want tips and some who really have no need of credits). Does this mean we are cheap, no. Its just hard trying to figure out what to tip you all in terms of the servers economy.
____________________________________________________________________________________
I think this is a poor reason, why? Dancers I know and dance with have never to my knowledge ever called someone on a tip. I've received tips as low as 20 credits, to a avg. of 2,000, with my highest being 100k. And all of them I've said thank you. If they leave too fast I /t a thank you. I know not everyone can tip, and like RL, I have good days and bad days, but I've never yell at someone for poor tipping. Heck, way I look at it, someone that tip's me 20 credits is ahead of those that don't tip at all. And what do I do with those tips? Over 20 dancing outfits, which I change often while I dance using the smoke bomb to hide the change. It always goes over big with those watching me.
I'm sorry, saying tipping is the reason people go to buffbots is lame. And to understand how bad it is..I need healing XP to make master dancer. So now I'm in coronet dancing in the entertainment groups. Out of a dozen people dancing, about 10 are AFK. It's hell trying to find someone to take leader when one of the few ATK dancers has to leave.
Groovymarlin
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:26 am
#10
Agree with Rach. I've never said anything other than "thank you" to a customer in regards to tipping. If they don't tip, they don't tip. I would never embarrass someone about it.
Unlike an AFK spammer, I don't talk about tips. I wasn't "brought up" that way. Part of the reason I find it so distressing that the new entertainers have such horrible examples to look to now with the preponderance of bots. They're mastering their professions thinking it's acceptable to have shouts for heals and tips in their macros, even when they're ATK. Trés gauche!
Part of the reason I find it so distressing that the new entertainers have such horrible examples to look to now with the preponderance of bots. They're mastering their professions thinking it's acceptable to have shouts for heals and tips in their macros, even when they're ATK. Trés gauche! Message Edited by Groovymarlin on 08-16-2004 08:27 AM
kirah_ashlin
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:50 am
#11
Very true - I would never comment on a tip being too small. That is not just unprofessional, its rude and inconsiderate.
A week ago, after we accepted a combat type into our ent group for a passive buff (something we don't make a habit of, btw) he said that he hoped we wouldn't ask for a tip because he was broke.Now, he was in full comp armor and had some massive weapon equiped. Broke? Doubtful. Did Roho kick him? No. We sucked it in and GAVE him a buff. Trust me, though - he won't get another freebie.
Ikewe
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:23 am
#12
I certainly appreciate that you came here and gave us your perspective on why patrons use robots instead of live entertainers. On my server I don't think that's the case but perhaps it is on yours. For example, there's a well known robot at one of the outposts. Last night someone who came to me for a buff said "If you want to make good money you should go to the outpost. X is there and makes 200K credits a night and can't keep up with the demand." When I told him I had gone to that outpost but had not gotten much business since most people were conditioned to just use the robot his reponse was "I think it's her macro because it's so easy"... To me that's the crux of the issue right there. For whatever reason combat players have begun to think that finding an entertainer and saying "Can I get a mind buff?" and then doing a /watch command followeda few minutes later by a /stop and /tip command is too difficult.Now it takes just as much energy to say "Invite me to X's group" but for whatever reason they *feel* like it is easier. Personally if I were a serious combat player and learned that the robot made 200K I think I'd be angry that I had to actually risk injury or equipment decay to run my missions while someone else just activated their robot and spent the day counting their credits.
When I buff, I ask for tips. If someone doesn't tip, then they don't tip. I don't say "Hey cheapo how about my tip" nor do I put them on some sort of deny list. Do I want to be tipped some amount? Of course I do. But as Tiaga said. If I want a set fee I should darn well ask for one.
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
CirCes
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:48 am
#13
Okay here's my take on tipping. I used to work as a waitress. Tipping in reality...is just something the customer does to show appreciation for service done well and efficiently. It is not a rate of pay. It is not a given. If you get tipped, consider it a compliment.
Now to game tipping. I am new ..granted, but..I WILL NEVER spam for tips...I will not sink to that level. If the customer asks me how much I would like for a tip....my standard answer is: The amount of the tip is up to my customers...I rely on my customers' goodwill. Now its not very often I get to say that...I don't get many tips. But if I do respond in that manner....they are usually generous and either a 5K tip or a 10K tip...is sent to me.
I never pressure for tips...EVER...I consider that very rude. And by the way...the lowest tip I ever received was 40 credits. I STILL said...thank you very much and smiled and wished them well. Far as I am concerned...its the thought behind the action that counts....EVEN if...I don't earn enough to pay maintenance on my little home..or to buy a new dress for dancing.
My two credits.
Cir'Ces dancing cause she loves it...in the Theed cantina - Ahazi server
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