Dancer Archive
Thread: Battle Dancers
It does not matter what you dress us in, we males aren't going to get as many tips. It's not about the clothing, though we're in desperate need of some love there, it's about the demographic of who tends to play these games. Not only is this perfectly reasonable, it's not anything that can be fixed with a patch...nor should it be.
As far as I'm concerned, the game IS fun, and not work. To me, at least.
- J
While I agree that Dancer should always be a social profession, I also think that a dancer should have more of an impact as regards dodge moves and in the TKA profession. In other words I think mixing dancer and TKA should be a good combination, as should Dancer/Brawler, Dancer/Pistoleer. Adding dancing to these professions should give that profession a boost that cannot be ignored. Anything that involves fast reflexes and co-ordinated body moves (close combat and dodging blaster fire, as well as concealment and stealth) should get quite good modifiers if that character is also a dancer. The current Master Dancer modifiers (melee defence, ranged defence) are too weak, and too high up the dancing tree to be seriously considered by most fighters. Dancing should give weapon speed enhancements, as well as defence enhancements, and these should be available throughout the dancer tree, not just for Master Dancers.
If becoming a dancer gave a fighter a good set of modifiers, I think dancing would be better regarded overall by the killing professions.
I see no real life correlation to make any sense of the argument. Reflexes of a dancer might be fast but that doesn't mean a dancer wouldn't freeze up with paralysis in combat, because combat reflexes are trained in combat. Heck most real soldiers freeze in combat when in combat.
The dancing professions in our own history do not stray into combat. Yes some martial arts have become stripped down exercise and yes the fluid motions of katas and martial arts have been compared in beauty to a dance. But they aren't and were never meant to be one and are generally not inspired by dance, but by natural animal moves. And you generally don't find marital artists and professional dancers mixing or knowing each other's skills.
While male dance in more traditional societies is often just a way to prove martial prowess when not on the battle field you do not find dance being done on the battlefield. Battle is confusing, messy, loud, scarey and very hazardous. It is not a duel. It is not a ballet. It is ugly chaos. There is no room there for elegant distractions.
Just because a dancer has good reflexes on the dance floor doesn't mean they can dodge a bullet or fist on the battlefield. It doesn't in reality either. I'm sure putting a boxer and a ballerina in a ring will yield a hurt ballerina very quickly.
But aside from that because, heck its a game if the designers said yes you get a bonus to this why not, I wouldn't really blink an eye, but why do you want to?
Suggestions like this say to me that people think only the combat portions of the game are the worthwhile parts of the game, or that they have more value or worth then non-combat parts of the game. Why is everyone only of value if they can support combat? Artisans make weapons and armor and droids to help combat therefore they are worthwhile. Pets can be tamed for combat therefore they are worthwhile. We can heal mindwounds therefor that is our only worth.
Until people get out of that mindset so they can make a supportive society that is not just geared for war you will never find satisfying non-combat opportunities. I don't play a social game to kill things, I may as well play a FPS for that. I'd go to Tribes or Half Life or MW4 where its all comradery and killing.
Here I'm interested in seeing businesses run. Not just gun shops, but bait shops, tailor shops, grocery stores, entertainment guilds, a news service, interior designers. I want to know people can have rewarding careers without blood on their hands.
I'm an entertainer to entertain, not as a crutch for a fighter. I want a game and more importantly people that can actually be creative and support that part of a world.
picklesSW wrote:
Dancer is meant to be a social profession, not a combat one.
On the paper the dancer is a social profession, but in fact we are the profession with the worst possibility to socialice in the game.
We are traped on one place.
Here we can then socialise with other entertainer? No, most there are not at their PCs.
Here we can socialise with the audience? No, they come in watch us and go to the fridge and after coming back they leave the cantina without a word. Sometimes you can make 2 or 5 minutes smaltalk. This was all.
Socialise I can most in the open chat and with /tell to friends.
In hunting groups thereis much more socialising then in the Cantinas. Every Fighter can do it much more often and better then we in the cantina. Even on the road, the shuttleportsor the bazaar places i can actually better socialise then as a dancer in a Cantina.
To address the reality thing.
It is otiose to dispute in fantasy or SF worlds about reality.
Is /deneyservice reality? Or creatures allowed bigger then the house in a real cantina?
Is is real that a masterdancer gets the same fee as a rookie? Or is it real that a masterdancer falls all few minutes at her bottom?
Would a bartender not throw the dancers out oft his club, who do not dance?
.....
I for my part would like some usefullness in a huntinggroupin my profession, and I would like to participate in the GCW as dancer too however they'll implement therefor.
That we can choose a second profession as a dancer is right, but it suits only half. With HAM as a dancer the big creatures onehit me, so I have to solo mostly the white cons too. Even If you are in a hunting group as a pistolero every other fighter or doctor is more valuable as a dancer fighter.
I only know, that I had not one time an invitation for a hunting group.
Sorryto write a bit confused, but my english is not the best aditionaly myboss disturbs constantly 
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Aniella (Gorath) Dancer
"I see no real life correlation to make any sense of the argument. Reflexes of a dancer might be fast but that doesn't mean a dancer wouldn't freeze up with paralysis in combat"
If you're addressing my post I think you may be missing the point. Dancers are highly trained in agility. Agility plays a big part in combat. A Teras Kasi Artist who is also a dancer would surely have an advantage over a Teras Kasi artist who is also a cook. The dance training supplements the agility and speed needed for the TKA's craft. It's the same with any fighter - a dancer's agility is going to be beneficial to the profession.
Beery wrote:
If you're addressing my post I think you may be missing the point. Dancers are highly trained in agility. Agility plays a big part in combat. A Teras Kasi Artist who is also a dancer would surely have an advantage over a Teras Kasi artist who is also a cook. The dance training supplements the agility and speed needed for the TKA's craft. It's the same with any fighter - a dancer's agility is going to be beneficial to the profession.
And that's why master dancers get a +7 melee defense bonus.
That's all any entertainer needs to translate their skill into melee skill. We don't need to be bards or master martial artists just because we can play a mean chidinkalu or cut a mean rug on the dance floor.
Combat is combat. Entertainment is entertainment. If you want to fight, then get some marksman skills and point a gun at something. Don't expect to dance the charleston and have that somehow make your group more effective in the killing fields.
just because we have some combat benefit doesn't mean those wanting to be social have to use them. I personally would love my entertainment skills to benefit in the civil war and just plain PvE. I don't need to actually hurt anything, just support my group members. I mean even daphne from scooby doo had a few helpful tricks up her sleeves even though most the time she was just eye candy.
I feel trapped inside city limits to be helpful to a group. I'm helpful when we are in a camp but the second that camp is torn down my entertainer skills mean diddly squat. I am a dancer for my guild, I travel where the guild travels. I don't see a problem allowing me to help them everyway possible.
Goldy_Lhim wrote:
I feel trapped inside city limits to be helpful to a group. I'm helpful when we are in a camp but the second that camp is torn down my entertainer skills mean diddly squat. I am a dancer for my guild, I travel where the guild travels. I don't see a problem allowing me to help them everyway possible.
"I feel trapped inside city limits to be helpful to a group. I'm helpful when we're in camp and my crafting station droid is out but the second that camp is torn down, my chef skills mean diddly squat. I am a chef for my guild, I travel where the guild travels. I don't see a problem allowing me to help them every way possible."
How is this any different than what you just said? Doesn't this mean that Chefs should havea combat role in order to maximize their usefulness? Maybe a creme puff bomb that blinds the enemy, a poison DoT made with bad food? A chef is really just another kind of chemist, after all.
Face it, some professions are simply not meant to be combat professions. By pursuing those professions, you're making a conscious choice to decrease your usefulness to a combat group. What does an architect bring to the table for a combat group? Nothing! Yet, I don't hear architects crying all of the time about how they ought to be able to use their skills to lay mines or get a bonus for identifying weak points in structures when they attack them. I don't see chefs asking for exploding cakes. I don't see image designers trying to give defense bonuses to their clients by giving them mesmerizing hair styles.
It's only entertainers who get this constant "why can't we have have combat abilities" spam. The only possible explanation for this is that we're all already "tuned in" to the bard archetype from playing other RPG's and so a combat musician seems acceptable whereas a combat chef seems silly.
If you want to be effective in combat then DON'T be an entertainer. It's that simple. Nobody is able to contribute to all aspects of their guild needs. Not even the combat types. There's no reason why entertainers should be the first to do so.
Somehow I get the impression that SlickRiptide is scared to death that Dancing skills might give great modifiers to combat professions. He's afraid that, in order to 'be all that he can be', he's gonna have to spend serious game time dancing around like a pixie. Oh, the horror! The horror!
Grow up, Slick!
Ok, there's two things that kill me about this system right now.
One being that dancers and musicians heal Mind wounds of other players. They provide a service similar to those of medics, although without the use of additional materials. How come there's a Combat Medic? Why not force all medics to the med center or camp site to wait for the others to return?
The other is that obtaining Master Dancer or Musician takes a lot of XP. You can only master one combat profession with Master Dancer/Musician, thinking that you would earn some type ofterrain negotiation. There has to be some way to compensate for this and I don't think the current system does.
There are some of us who are content to stay in the cantina, but there are others who can't stand it, myself included. I've just recently mastered dance and would hate to surrender it for more combat oriented skills. I wish there was a way to better incorporate the two together. This isn't a plee to make every entertainer a bard-like one, but to allow those who want excitement and adventure to be able to do so without being an easy target.
It would be so cool to be vital to taking over a faction base. We could distract the officers while the others sneak past to disable the security. /shrug; I guess that's not going to happen any time soon.