Dancer Archive
Thread: We should be able to buff ourselves..
I completely agree! If they truely expect entertainers to go into the field with groups this should be allowable. We have one dancer (me) who goes out into the field with my PA, I am also a Master Medic/Novice Doctor...I know I would LOVE that extra 1025 mind just like everyone else does!!!
Ki'ki Da'O -RIP
Master Dancer
Melodious wrote:
Argument is pretty simple. Doctors can buff themselves so why can't we?
At first I agreed. I figured that either both should be self-buffing or neither should be self-buffing.
I'm not so certain though. We already have it pretty good now. Our buffs require no materials, and we can do a passive buff of up to 19 other people (plus one active buff?). The real expenditure is time, and most of the cases require downtime anyway as people heal and craft.
If we had a self-buff, then you could pretty much declare that a dancer/musician will always have a higher Mind/Focus/Willpower than when he started. If the devs decide this is too large of an advantage, they may decide to put more costs into the buffs, such as materials or more time.
Perhaps some sort of pro/con matrix should be drawn up. Since we're comparing our buffs with doctors anyway, might as well look at the specifics and see if we are so disadvantaged that we need to really push for a self-buff.
Resource expenditure:
Dancer - none
Doctor - I'm not sure what resources are needed (to be honest, I don't know if they need to craft for this; I am assuming they are, but if they don't then please correct me)
Time to buff:
Dancer - maximum 10 minutes (longer for passive?)
Doctor - Instaneous (with a couple minutes of crafting [divided by number of uses])
Duration of buff:
Dancer - ~1-2 hours
Doctor - ~2 hours (I think)
Scope:
Dancer - can buff multiple people at once
Doctor - must buff people individually
Self-reliance:
Dancer - can only help others
Doctor - can help others and self
Range:
Dancer - camps, cantinas, hotels, theatres, PA Halls, houses
Doctor - anywhere (?)
Anything else I missed or goofed on?
On one had, with the cost of materials not being a factor, I consider ourselves more fortunate than doctors in our buffs. But there are plenty of other factors such as the amount of time and the locations which puts us at a disadvantage.
The question I have is: If we can buff ourselves, will this be seen as such an imbalance that the devs may decide that something will need to change? Would such a move make dancers and musicians instantly gravitate to rifleman because they will be more effective at solo missions than normal combat puppies?
I'd rather see things as they are now than be able to buff myself and have a new cost added.
"Resource expenditure:
Dancer - none
Doctor - I'm not sure what resources are needed (to be honest, I don't know if they need to craft for this; I am assuming they are, but if they don't then please correct me)"
Oh, they definately need to craft They're called Enhance packs. To get a really good enhance, you have to use the advanced components-requiring specific resources from Dantooine and Lok, as well as resources that often shift out of the galaxy for quite a while (Dolovite Iron for example, tends to go missing for a while). The higher (ie. better) Enhance packs require factory identical components as well.
"Time to buff:
Dancer - maximum 10 minutes (longer for passive?)
Doctor - Instaneous (with a couple minutes of crafting [divided by number of uses])"
Just to clarify, a buff on part with what a master dancer gives would take more than a couple minutes to craft, due to the requirement of factory identical subcomponents.
"Range:
Dancer - camps, cantinas, hotels, theatres, PA Halls, houses
Doctor - anywhere (?)"
Docs can't buff anywhere. The Enhance packs function more like healing wounds than healing damage. So the doc needs a camp, med center, house or med droid to be able to apply a buff.
I think not being able to buff oneself is balanced considering that doctors have to craft the packs and expend resources. Also don't forget the time factor for the doc if they collect their own resources. Trips to Dantooine and Lok are pretty much mandatory; the other resources for the better components require travel to Tatooine, Talus and then wherever the other specific resources may have spawned. There's also no guarantee on the quality of enhance packs-sure you can experiment on them, but once your secret stash of that fantastic resource is depleted, you're SOL if the shifts on Dantooine, Lok, Talus and Tatooine are bad several times in a row. Whereas, as a master dancer, I buff for 100% as long as they stick around for 5 mins.
Kuildeous wrote:
Melodious wrote:
Resource expenditure:
Dancer - none
Doctor - I'm not sure what resources are needed (to be honest, I don't know if they need to craft for this; I am assuming they are, but if they don't then please correct me) Lok Wild Wheat, Tat Fiberplast, Class 4 Liquid Petro Chem, Herbivore Meat, Domestic Oats & Dolovite Iron for the subcomponents. Reactive Gas and Avian meat for the final--some of the sub components must be factory made.
Time to buff:
Dancer - maximum 10 minutes (longer for passive?)
Doctor - Instaneous (with a couple minutes of crafting [divided by number of uses]) Not exactly instaneous,there's a timer between buffs.
Duration of buff:
Dancer - ~1-2 hours
Doctor - ~2 hours (I think) Duration varies, my top end time out at just over 3 hours, but that's the exception not the rule
Scope:
Dancer - can buff multiple people at once
Doctor - must buff people individually
Self-reliance:
Dancer - can only help others
Doctor - can help others and self
Range:
Dancer - camps, cantinas, hotels, theatres, PA Halls, houses
Doctor - anywhere (?) Med center, camps, or anywhere if we have a droid out (except cantina of course)
Added information, I'm pretty sure I got everything. 
Thank you, Velvet and CKilla. I knew I could rely on those more experienced with doctors. I had no idea that the resource requirements were so strict. That gives me an entirely new level of respect for doctors.
So, I see that my initial comparison underestimates the pain doctors have to go through. Not only do they require resources, but they require expensive resources. And they cannot buff just anywhere (perhaps that is why I've never seen a buff).
With that in mind, I'm inclining more towards not being able to buff ourselves. If doctor buffs are this much of a pain, I can forgive them the inequality of self-buffs. I feel they deserve it.
If we are allowed to buff ourselves, then the scales are hugely tipped in our favor. This can prompt the devs to consider adding a cost to our ability. I'd rather not see that happen. If the devs decide to give it to us without a cost, I'll be happy. However, I would be completely understanding if a dev told us, "Hey, you get to buff people without a cost. Can't you be happy with that?"
Besides, how often will performers not be buffed? In any decent-sized town, you'll be grouped with a musician and a dancer. The next time your action bar is depleted from flourishing, havea seat and enjoy the other performers. Then you can enjoy their buffs.
As I dance alone in desolate places a lot, I would love to be able to buff my own mind. But I cannot see the justification in demanding a self-buff for ourselves.
The justification is quite simple. We can heal our battle fatigue and mind wounds, which basically says to me that we are able to soothe and heal ourselves from the horrors of battle, so why can we not enhance our own mental fortitude? It would be fine if the buffs actually helped us in the cantina, but as it is now we have to have another high/master level dancer around with us in order to be on an equal footing with the rest of our group, especially now that a lot of creatures seem to be doing mind dmg more often.
<shrug> Me personally, I hang out on Talus a lot, where there are NO other dancers/musicians, only minor level entertainers, and I'm the only higher skilled dancer in my guild at all.
I wouldn't mind if we had to have some resource to buff ourselves up. Mirror resources or something. The option SHOULD be there to buff ourselves, doesn't make sense that we can't.. I'll be glad for any changes that can make us buff ourselves as long as we can do it
Sienna and Meodious, if you had to go to 6-8 different plantes or to pay 10 cpu for the 260 untis that is needed for making a enhance pack, then I agree that you should be able to buff yourself. As it is now you don't need anything to buff others. Sure you had a long time getting to master dancer but you didn't have to grind about 2700 bio controllers to get there wich cost abouts 80-100k to do.
The fact of the matter is we should be able to buff ourselves. It should be one of the "Perks" of beinga master. The bottom line here is that yes its true doctors spend time crafting and expending resources. But not all of them. There are doctors out there who don't craft at all! They just buy what they need from a vendor.
So in my mind the point that doctors have to spend resources so we should not be able to buff ourselves cause we dont is a moot point. Some doctors never craft at all.
And as someone else pointed out we can heal our own mind wounds and battle fatigue. Which makes me believe we are on permanent "Watch" mode to ourselves. But the actually targeted "watch" has a switch that needs to be flicked when applying the buff. You will notice that if you use CTRL 1 to target yourself you can do /setperform to yourself...you can also do /stopwatch while targeting yourself. BUT if you do /watch it does nothing at all. The other two commands give a message that said it did something but the /watch command doesnt even return an error.
If the only perk to my class is to heal my own BF and mind wounds...which can only be done where entertainers gather i.e. Cantinas, camps, etc. Then its not really a perk is it? I think pretty much every class out there gets some kind of perk to be a master. Like TKM's for example can heal there own wounds through meditation etc.
Entertainers as a whole get shafted in alot of ways. Lack of high end flourishes lack of income, poor mission payouts. Dealing with macrotainers dealing with being groped and goggled over etc. I think we should get a bone here to make it all worth while.
I really hope that Ravenmist pushes the dev on this issue.
Syl
Resource expenditure:
Dancer - none
Doctor - I'm not sure what resources are needed (to be honest, I don't know if they need to craft for this; I am assuming they are, but if they don't then please correct me)
HAHAHA....
I don't know what Galaxy you dance in....but the six Galaxies I dance in, my Masters have a HUGE resource expenditure....its called DANCEWEAR.
Clothes are ESSENTIAL to making a GOOD dancer...plain and simple. I can't begin to tell you the number of times I have had someone stand up to get ready and leave and i hit my "quickchange under smokebomb" macro for another outfit and they sit back down...which almost always results in another tip.
Also...yes...resources for Doc buffs are expensive and a pain in the behind to get, however.....Docs who want to, make BIG BUCKS off of selling buffs, thus esentially negating the whole cost factor.
My lover and I play together on several servers. On two of those he is a Master Doc, so I know this. I spend at least as much time gathering resources and crafting as he does, so I know the time and expense that goes into it.
Ahhh yes... really good Avian meat can be "almost" as expensive and hard to find as a new bikini in that "just right" color *smirk*
I already posted about the absurdity of no self buffs elsewhere...think I sall repost it here as well 
Master Dancers Pandorra1, Pandorra2, Pandorra3, Twi'light, Tabu, & Miztress