Dancer Archive
Thread: petition to make dancer technique useful
I've been thinking a lot lately about how the dancer class is pretty much useless in a fight and I think I have a solution for that which would also take care of the extremely useless dancer technique tree. Techniques like distract, smoke-bomb and dazzle should be able to be used while not dancing and to be used against targeted enemies. i.e. smoke bomb decreases the likelihood of them hitting anyone with in the area, dazzle and distract work as stuns. It would allow us to play a support role in battle and make that tree not only desirable but really darn useful. Thoughts?
Min'Tora Ehi; Lowca
I disagree with your suggestions about "smoke bombs" and what not.
I do however agree that dancers should be able to contribute to combat. You know, some games have Dancer classes (FF tactics) and musician/singer classes (bards, many many games).
They contribute in fights. I say dancers/musicians should be able to boost morale, raise defenses, increase attack speed...you know, affect aspects of combat by dancing while being teamed in a group. AND they should be able to heal mind, mind wounds and bf during combat. If they implemented that...i mean, you team with a dancer and a medic and you'll go for a looong time. As it stands no one can heal mind...so i say dancers in combat should be able to.
Mivora wrote:
I've been thinking a lot lately about how the dancer class is pretty much useless in a fight and I think I have a solution for that which would also take care of the extremely useless dancer technique tree. Techniques like distract, smoke-bomb and dazzle should be able to be used while not dancing and to be used against targeted enemies. i.e. smoke bomb decreases the likelihood of them hitting anyone with in the area, dazzle and distract work as stuns. It would allow us to play a support role in battle and make that tree not only desirable but really darn useful. Thoughts?
Yes, my thought is "Why do people insist on trying to hybridize entertainers into combat roles?"
The whole point of SWG is that combat is NOT the be-all end-all purpose of the game. If that's how you want to play it then you're wasting your time playing any kind of an entertainer.
I'm an apprentice musician. I'm a master entertainer. I'm also very close to being a rifle specialist and a pistol specialist. If I was inclined at all to learn carbine then I could easily become a master marksman. If I want to be effective in combat I don't shoot off a firepot, I pull out my laser rifle and blow off a head.
Forget bards. This isn't D&D or EQ or any other fantasy based game with a magic/melee hybrid. SWG is the first and only game around that has "entertainers" who's primary and only job is to *gasp* entertain people! We're not designed be some sort of magical combat machine. It peeves me to no end to see the weekly posts about how "useless we are in combat and we'd be so much better if only we could charm/lull/buff/debuff/blind/whatever" - in other words, act like bards. It's even more annoying when the poster in question assumes that because HE would be unhappy playing an entertainer as designed, that ALL entertainers must therefore be unhappy and wishing that they could wield magical lights and charming effects in combat. ("Red 3 to Red command. We have a Berserk Tortur Bull. I repeat. That's a Berserk Tortur Bull." "Red command to Red 3 - Those laser rifles haven't got a chance. Send in the Twilek dancer in the Exotic Leotard!")
My main in EQ for 2.5 years was a bard. I loved him and when I quit the game it was because I'd gotten all I would ever get from it, not because I disliked my bard. Even so, I have absolutely zero desire to see musiciansand dancers turned into bards here. Let it go already! If we want to fight, we'll do it the same way everyone else does, with our guns and our fists. Otherwise, we won't fight at all and be happy that we're not forced to do so to get ahead.
*grumble* Where are my sedatives? *grumble*
). And it allows them to do something besides look pretty and eat the action bar. Heck, even Elvis fought when he had to. And if you've been with a group ina dancer role there is nothing more frustrating than watching them get killed because you can't help until the fighting is over. It would be nice to be useful and to still be a dancer.
Oh and Slick, What get's my goat is people who think everyone that plays an entertainer should be in it purely for the asthetic value and the socializing and demonize people that want to play it as a support role for other players. There are many ways to play any of these classes, no one's play style is better than anyone elses.
Min
If ANYTHING, the technique tree should give us some sort of experience, like 5-15 dance XP each use or something. The effects are great, but really....it's hard debating whether to go for it because all it does is makes us flashy, eats action, and gives nothing much in return.
Yet I opted for Techniques I over Knowledge I, knowing this, so I really shouldn't talk, heh. But I wouldn't mind being able to use them in battle, either. Have certain effects blind someone or cause them to pause a bit so I can whip out my pistol and blast them to heck and back before they have a chance to go "Nice light!" *BAM* x_x;
Hee.
Mivora wrote:
Right now we have a completely useless skill tree called dancer technique, so make it useful for entertainers that want to be able to contribute in the field.
Useless? I disagree. I have Technique III and am using it for great results.
Of course, it doesn't give me experience. It doesn't guarantee credits. It doesn't help me take down a ronto. But I can time it nicely so that I inspire the audience. Some of them even tip me!
I could see using /distract to escape an enemy. Healing mind in the field? Nah. In the middle of a fight, someone isn't able to relax and heal mind wounds. That's just a paradox. That's where you move to a camp and lick your wounds.
The whole point of SWG is that combat is NOT the be-all end-all purpose of the game. If that's how you want to play it then you're wasting your time playing any kind of an entertainer.
Well said, SlickRipTide. My Dancer skills are for the pure pleasure of entertaining and interacting.
That said, I do think it would be nice if a Master Dancer's well-tuned physical prowess, quickness and agility would give us a few pluses in fights.
I'm not just a Master dancer - I took up the path of Teras Kasi because it felt contiguous with my dancing profession. Why can't I benefit, even a little, from all those hours dancing?
Master Dancers have a little benefit.. +7 defenses against melee and ranged. Is it little? You bet, but its there. And we should be lucky. Image Designers and Musicians don't even get this (they have other bonuses).
Mivora wrote:
Oh and Slick, What get's my goat is people who think everyone that plays an entertainer should be in it purely for the asthetic value and the socializing and demonize people that want to play it as a support role for other players. There are many ways to play any of these classes, no one's play style is better than anyone elses.
Mivora, my annoyance comes as much from the melees who keep going on about how useless entertainers are and how we'd obviously be so much happier if we had a combat role as it comes from entertainers who want to give themselves a combat role.
This isn't about being a support class. Entertainers are NOT a combat support class. They were never intended to be a combat support class. They never will be a combat support class. Entertainment is the antithesis of combat. The only combat support we should or ever will have is healing mind wounds in camp. I'd be behind letting master dancer/musicians heal battle fatigue in camp at a reduced rate. That's logical. Sending entertainers out on the front lines is illogical.
My problem is not with you personally, so please don't take it that way. These threads popup at least weekly on the musician forum.
Let me ask you something - Why do you want a dancer or musician to have a combat role? When I fire a gun, I know what my role is and why I'm having an effect on my opponent. How do you justify taking a disco ball in the cantina and translating that into a blinding effect on the battlefield? Where does it come from? What powers it? How do you target it? (The disco ball targets its user, you know, unless you happen to have ventriolquism.) How does a smoke bomb distract an opponent without affecting all of your comrades or yourself? Where is the actual bomb and why don't the melees get one to throw?
The only way to justify any of this is to do a lot of hand-waving that effectively makes them magic spells. Don't even get me started on the people who want entertainers to be able to charm and lull...
The beauty of entertainers in SWG is that they AREN'T about combat in any way, shape, or form. Medics at least have a precedent in real-life. They need to be on the front-lines to keep the troops fighting. Entertainers are never on the front lines. They can't contribute anything there. Their job is to help everyone get back in shape AFTER the fighting's done. That's our role and it's the right role for us to have.
This is all my opinion and you're welcome to have your own opposing opinion. I mean no disrespect to anyone by disagreeing with them, even if I do it vociferously. 
If you can give me a good solid rationale for why adancer would be out on the front lines throwing smoke bombs at Binayre Pirates then I'll be happy to reconsider.
Then it may help if you know my motivation behind it. I belong to a rather nice PA and a large reason for them being there is PvP and combat. I don't like combat or PvP (the idea of running around bopping things on the head is what turned me off from DAoC) but I still want to contribute to the PA. Currently I haunt whichever cantina is closest to their hunt, but these are my friends and I would like to give them something more. Every other class in my group can directly effect how they do in the fight, from the tailor that makes their armor to the chef that cooks up some food for them to eat to the smuggler that gives them uber enhancing drugs. I really really enjoy entertaining, I'm social by nature but I still want to be able to give my boys an edge. I doubt I'm the only one that would like to give a little above and beyond to my best customers.
Then we get down to if all dancers should play by the rules of the majority even if the changes to let them be more supportive don't have an effect on the majorities play style. Where would it hurt or even effect your game if entertainers could do more to support in the field? The smoke and blinding effect would only have any meaning in combat and could still be used to flash up an entertainer routine. Don't believe in giving mind buffs? Don't target the effect on anyone. It costs nothing to the majority and allows the minority that want to help our friends out there do so while still being entertainers.
I'm not trying to get out of spending skill points. Got too many anyway andyou couldn't take down a gnat with a smoke screen. This isn't about running around killing things, I have pistol for that if I want it. It's about being able to support the troops.
If an entertainer wants combat take a combat onion there are more then enough points left. I don't even like the idea of us healing battle fatigue in camps
Oh and Slick, What get's my goat is people who think everyone that plays an entertainer should be in it purely for the asthetic value and the socializing and demonize people that want to play it as a support role for other players. There are many ways to play any of these classes, no one's play style is better than anyone elses.
It is not that we think hybrids are bad and entertainers should be pure. It is the person who complains that they are a Master Dancer and Master Musician and cant survive on Dathomir.
You can easily be a viable dancer that helps by dancing in camps between fights and in the cantina between trips, helping your companions out and still have some decent combat skills. But Master Dancer and Master Musician indicate you are an entertainer not a Combat Support person.
Plus who cares if you cant fight or dont have the skills to do well when fighting. In a large group the other fights, and you have a captive audience to heal between fights. Sure take pot shots with your CDEF pistol, but you are hardly leeching xp from the combat people.