Dancer Archive

I just thought I'd bring this up, because far too often a new feature is proposed, and it gets shot down by naysayers who are screaming that it will be abused and will destroy the game. Such a feature was /denyservice. I can't remember hearing so much rabid opposition to a feature in all my years of gaming. From the shrill predictions of some, one would have thought that the entire game would be destroyed by this feature. I wassurprised, given the amount of opposition to the proposal, that it ever got implemented.

The view of the naysayers was basically this:

"Very opposed to this featuresince it would be abused in order to force tips. You just have to read the entertainer boards to see that. "

So how much abuse of the /denyservice featurehave we seen? I've seen NONE AT ALL! How many people do we see denying service to force a tip? I have yet to even hear rumours of it happening ONCE!

I just thought it was important to point that out. All too often, after we've had a big discussion about the need for a new feature (or its potential for abuse), we forget about who was right, and who was needlessly pessimistic. Let's remember that added features can be withdrawn if they don't work. Let's continue to voice our opinions, but let's admit that we could be wrong, and allow new proposals to be tried before we pass judgment on them. In my opinion, too many beneficial features are destroyed before they've had a chance because too many people believe that the sky is falling.

It hasn't been exploited much (though it HAS been exploited), because most of the entertainers in cantinas aren't even at their keyboards to know if they've been tipped or harrassed. I wonder how many of them even know they have a /denyservice command -- if they don't know how to do the "purty lights", I'm not too worried.

I used /denyservice on a rancor once that someone brought into the cantina. The rancor responded by stepping on me and knocking me unconscious for a half hour.

After that, I decided not to try again.

- J

But according to the naysayers, this was going to be a feature that would be exploited to extort tips on a regular basis. By now, we weresupposed tohave a mafia of evil entertainers denying everyonemind healsuntil they got paid. It's been a few weeks now, and I just don't see the 'Cosa Entertaina' muscling in on the game andrunning extortion rackets. The folks who argued vociferouslyagainst this feature should come out and admit they were wrong.

I know that it happens. Therehave beenseveral occasions where my husband and a friend would travel to the cantina when I was unavailable in which they were denied services specifically because they didn't tip. In one instance, even after healing the dancer (before realizing they'd been denied) she still refused to heal them until they tipped. It does happen, usually when in a very slow cantina where there is only one entertainer - because that's the only way they can guarantee that no one else is healing the patrons. My friend stood up and equipped his slitherhorn because he wouldn't be forced into tipping.

There are entertainers doing this, and it's not going over well within the rest of the community. Many people are reacting exactly the way my friend did, and refusing to be coerced into something they might have done anyway. Just because you (as another entertainer) don't see it happening in the cantinas you perform in, doesn't mean that it's not happening.

Alsatia MistSabre, Master Dancer/Master Tailor, Corbantis

...Of course I'm not going to hold my breath.

Look, anyone who denies service on a regular basis is going to get the worst reputation in the game. You can't even do it without letting your target know that he's been denied. This is just not a feature that's open to abuse by anyone but the stupidest people. I realise that the first couple of days might have seen a rash of /denyservice commands, just to see how it would work, but anyone who is still abusing it is an idiot - it will cost them a lot in terms of their reputation, and that will make it hard for them to get much enjoyment out of the game.

Again, I just don't see anywhere nearthe rampant abuse that people were prophesying. One isolated incident is not evidence of an epidemic, and an epidemic is what we were assured would happen bya lot ofpeople.

I never said they were smart to do it, just that it happened. And yes, those dancers' reputations are trashed for it, if players take the time to specify, and not just lump all entertainers together as extortionists. And I realize that it doesn't seem to be on the scale that was apparently suggested in the early days of this discussion. In all honesty, I opposed this idea on the basis that even a few dancers doing it would have a negative impact on the profession as a whole. I can't speak of epidemics, and I can't give you more than the 3-4 examples I have personally witnessed (over my hubby's shoulder). I don't ever see it happening in a cantina that I'm performing in - because it wouldn't work unless I did it, too (and I won't). Like I said, I've only seen it happening when there was only one dancer, because that's the only way to be sure they're not just going to watch someone else. It doesn't happen often, but it's still a "negative reinforcement" tactic for gaining tips. I won't say I was wrong, because I don't think I was, but I will agree that it isn't AS bad as our initial fears. Close enough?

Alsatia MistSabre, Master Dancer/Master Tailor, Corbantis

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Beery wrote:
But according to the naysayers, this was going to be a feature that would be exploited to extort tips on a regular basis.
< snip >
The folks who argued vociferouslyagainst this feature should come out and admit they were wrong.

---

I'll admit it. I was sure it would be much more abused then I have seen it. I was incorrect.

Feel better?

Now, I think there some reasons for this:

1. 3/4ths of the dancers and musicians I know, know that the command is there (it's in the patch notes), but do not know how to use it. People also don't understand how it works (e.g. if the band leader denies service does it work for the whole band?). So there may be some of that. Of course, that said, most of the ones I know would not abuse it. Lest this be seen as a sneaky way of me saying "I was not really wrong," I will admit that I did not anticipate how few people would know how to use the command, and that this would substantially cut into its usage.

2. AFKers can't use it while AFK. They might be inclined to, but they can't. Frankly when I objected to deny service, AFK was not as huge a problem as it has become, and the cantinas weren't all filled with zombies. At the time, there were a lot of active dancers and those people were complaining about lack of tips. Some of them may have abused deny service, but they have since either become AFK bots or left the profession. So unless/until macroing is fixed, deny service would be a secondary issue. Again, I did not anticipate that the same crowd who was clamoring for tips would become the full-time LAMErs and therefore be unable to use deny service.

I still think that it's a silly command and I have never felt the need to use it. I also think that if it were abused, it would lead to some very nasty consequences. That said, I was incorrect in my predictions about its abuse.

So there you go.

Happy?

C

I think we should be able to deny service to NPCs. They sit there and cheer and clap, they're obviously enjoying the performance, but have I ever gotten a SINGLE tip from them? NO!

Deny the freeloadin NPCs!

- J
Just a bit o humor...

Yes!

You know who really gets on my nerves (and that of the others in Keren)? Lergo. We've decided he must be the owner of the joint... And he refuses to keep the floor clean. So our dancers keep falling! He's also a jerk to people when he gives out quests. In all he is just an onerous club owner who needs to be taken down a few pegs.

So I hereby petition all Keren dancers and musicians to deny service to Lergo!

:-)

C

I use it often actually and am laughed at for it as I laugh back.

I use it only during war though, I won't heal anyone overtly rebel or spewing rebel rehtoric while I allow my Imperial brothers and sisters a quick heal.

Those laughing and mocking my with it usually is like

over rebel player 1,321: "oh look Brianna's to good for us to watch and heal from here"

Brianna: "No, it's that you aren't good enough to heal you piece of overt rebel poo doo"

over rebel player 1,321: "you are an Imperial"

Brianna: "yes sir/ma'am I am"

over rebel player 1,321: "go overt then so I can kill you"

Brianna: " now that would be pointless for me, I'm here to heal my brother and sisters in a time of war. You have plenty of other dancers here to watch you don't need me"

over rebel player 1,321: "but you are a master dancer and I want to heal quicker"

Brianna: "well if you want a master dancer who's neutral or rebel you need to support them more by watching them not me"

over rebel player 1,321: "you suck"

Brianna: "when the war ends in this city you'll be removed from deny service. I only refuse service to rebels and rebel sympathizers during times of war"

over rebel player 1,321: "yeah what ever B_ _ _H!"

__

I've also used it maybe twicein my own player cantina when someone is bieng rude. They were not happy but I told them that if I had to deny them service again they wouldn't be allowed back in.

After 15 minutes I removed them and let them heal.

I haven't had a problem with them since.

"I'll admit it. I was sure it would be much more abused then I have seen it. I was incorrect.

Feel better?"

That's not the point. The point is that sometimes people get all hot and bothered about issues like this, and their needless fears get proposals canned before they've had a chance. My point is that we need to give proposals the benefit of the doubt, rather than rushing to judgment. I'm sure there have been proposedfeatures in many games that would have been of great benefit, but unrealistic fears have prevented them from being implemented. Fear is not a good emotion when progress is required. All I'm saying is that we should give new proposals the benefit of the doubt. Many people didn't give /denyservice the benefit of the doubt, but against the odds it was implemented anyway, and the worstfears of the naysayershave proved groundless.

What I'm saying is this: let's all be a bit more optimistic, so that we don't have to go through that kind ofuseless debateagain. I just don't want to hear people say "no, it's a bad idea to try it because it will lead to (insert horrifying disaster here)". That is knee-jerk reaction,regressive thinking, and based purelyon fear, rather than logic.