Dancer Archive
Thread: How about a Grandmaster Rank?
The problem, if it can be called that, is that after reaching Master Dancer one either has to take up Music and Image Design to reach Master Entertainer, or else stop dancing and work on combat or crafting skills. If you want to be Master Entertainer, you can pretty much forget about pursuing any other profession seriously.
I've been disappointed since hitting my goal (I have no interest in playing an instrument) that there is no more use for Dancing xp, that I only dance for fun or money these days and there is nothing left to achieve as a Dancer.
So I'm suggesting a Grandmaster rank for all professions. This would mean a huge major update for the entire game, I realize, and would require time to develop. But it's something I believe we should keep asking for.
In my own mind, ascending to Grandmaster rank should be a particularly difficult path. The XP curve could be very high, that's fine -- it would be nice for a change if every other Dancer I run into isn't the same rank as me
Of course, the Grandmaster path would involve new dances as well (another thread - there are many to choose from. My vote if for flamenco and interpretive jazz) and maybe even new visual effects that upgrade spotlight and dazzle.
A Grandmaster Dancer would have exceptional healing power, and I suggest that Action costs for various flourishes ought to be lower as well.
Of course, GM rank would mean additional Skill Points are needed. Not many - the GM skills shouldn't cost many points apiece, and it's reasonable that one would have to be single-minded to become a GM just as you have to be single-minded to become a Master Entertainer. Five or 10 additional skill points should be sufficient, I'd think.
At least it would give us another goal to strive for.
Any other thoughts?
No. All that would do is encourage even MORE afk dancing/entertaining. No. What I think needs to be done is that the existing master dancer box needs a rethink.
For that matter all entertaining needs a quick rethink. The major problem with entertainer skills/professions right now is that we currently rely on the honor system to be paid for our service to players. It is because of the passive way in which the skill works. Instead of a passive mind healing system it should be changed to an active mind healing system that is controlled by the entertainer him/herself.
An active healing system would be radial menu based. A player would group with the player that needed healing (much like ID) and then using the radial menu select entertain (music or dance). A group /command could also be used to heal a large group (more than a single player). A system like this would eliminate the honor system from the mind healing process, ruin the ability for someone to master an entertainer profession 100% AFK and it would solve another of the entertainers biggest complaints... Dealing with rude players.
I do see your concern, reachwind, but it doesn't matter what you do to anything. For as long as there is anything that can be gained via XP, title or otherwise, there are going to be people who have to macro and afk to get there 'first' or 'fastest'.
Changing the way in which we are 'paid' by players isn't going to change that. People don't afk for the best tips, they do it so they can be first and say 'look at me, I'm a master'. *shrugs* No matter how you change a system, they'll continue to find ways to do that.
Without commenting on the need for a grandmaster, I'd say that it should NOT entail getting more skill points. 250 points is already enough to master two elite professions and one novice profession, with some points left over in most cases. If one is going to try to be a "master of masters" then one should be faced with the choice of giving up some other level of mastery, IMO.
I shouldn't be too awfully surprised if something like "Grandmaster" showed up with the space expansion. No different than EQ increasing the level limit every other expansion.
I think what I'd rather see is some sort of hybrid professions appear. "Recording Engineer" or something.
In the case of Grandmaster, I think it would be most appropriate to have a "Grandmaster Entertainer" which required mastery of both Music and Dance rather than a grandmaster in one or the other. Then I'd expand the special effects so that the dance side had different special effects than the music side has. That would allow the dancers to differentiate themselves a bit more from the musicians, performance-wise, as well as offering a troupe some new options for how to accent a performance.
I like the idea of a Grandmaster, however I don't think it should be a skill thing. I think it should be a roleplaying thing. What you could do is limit the number of GrandMaster titles available, maybe one per planet or something, so you'd have the title of Gandmaster Dancer of Tatooine or somesuch. If you wanted to gain the rank yourself, you'd have to compete in some fashion with the current GrandMaster to wrest the title from him/her.
For dancers of course a dance contest would be ideal, but it may be hard to actually play that since every master dancer has the exact same skills. Perhaps a panel of judges?
Reachwind wrote:No. All that would do is encourage even MORE afk dancing/entertaining. No. What I think needs to be done is that the existing master dancer box needs a rethink.
Reachwind, I really don't see this as a problem. For one, most of the players I've known who macro'd all the time got bored and either left the game or switched to another profession. It tends to be a self-correcting problem in the long term.
However, in recognition of the issue you raise, and to put something a little different into the mix, what if a GM Dancer had to perform some difficult missions for the local dance guild - not combat, but, say, dancing in every cantina on that planet or in the entire galaxy? At each cantina, there could be an NPC who would reward you with an item that marked your completion of that stage of the quest - perhaps something like a belt with +2 Ent Heal, or something else equally balanced. Perhaps you would be sent to someone's house who is ailing and would be cheered up by your dancing.
For that matter all entertaining needs a quick rethink. The major problem with entertainer skills/professions right now is that we currently rely on the honor system to be paid for our service to players. It is because of the passive way in which the skill works. Instead of a passive mind healing system it should be changed to an active mind healing system that is controlled by the entertainer him/herself.An active healing system would be radial menu based. A player would group with the player that needed healing (much like ID) and then using the radial menu select entertain (music or dance).
Sorry, I'm going to disagree on this one. When I'm performing, I want to be in the entertainment group so we can coordinate - dances, music, or just talk about an unruly customer or share tips on playing. I don't want to have to drop out to group with one customer at a time. I like the current method of allowing anyone to /watch as it bumps my Ent Heal xp (something that mattered before I was a Master, anyway).
I'm much less concerned about being paid for our services. That's another topic altogether, but as has been said here many times, if you want to get rich, don't dance
AriaDanae wrote:
I actually would be very disappointed if SOE implements Grandmaster ranks. One of my favorite aspects of SWG is that you can master a profession within a month or so, and thereafter are free to enjoy other aspects of the game without the constant drive to get XP. I think it's just the difference in perspective between those who think the fun ends when you max your rank, or the fun begins when you max your rank. But given that there are many other alternative games where leveling is the focus, I hope SWG doesn't move in that direction.
I hear what you're saying AriaDanae, but the truth is that it's a playstyle choice even now, with only Master rank as the max. No one has to become a master at anything -- one could conceivably be of medium skill in a large number of skills if that's what they want to do.
That said, my concern is long term. I'm looking at another 6 months down the road (an extremely short time by any MMRPG standard) when everyone on the older servers is Master at their primary skill. We will have Masters coming out of the woodwork. Master Tailor items will no longer be coveted as much. Neither will the higher level guns and armor or large houses. The point of saturation will be reached very quickly because of exactly what you noted - it's not that hard to become a Master.
By adding a super-difficult level beyond Master it simply gives the players something else to strive for other than engaging in endless PvP or crafting endless flesh wraps.
For me the fun of SWG isn't spending all day grinding, but engaging with other people. Conversation and meeting other people (such as through roleplaying) is much more fun. Even after I run out of skill points and have maxed everything out...I still will have fun because of the people not because of my skills.
I'm against the Grandmaster thing because it will turn out like UO and EQ where its just adding level to level full of afk/macro people grinding away. What happens when everyone reaches Grandmaster? Then they'd have to add Uber Grandmaster? It just wouldn't end. I'd rather the developers work on other types of content. I do like the idea of having more dances. Perhaps quests that will end with you gaining a new dance move? Definitely something you couldn't macro your way through.
Gosh this is a good thread, and i don't want to say "i agree with so-and-so" and "disagree with him or her" because you all made good points. But i think that probably Grand Mastering is getting a bit carried away no offense. I think i would prefer hybrids.... correct me if i'm wrong but we are like one of the only skills with no hybrid proffessions!?!? What would the hybrids be....ummm... well that's why i'm not a dev LOL. But there has to be something that hybrids with entertainer so that for those players that feel they are wasting their time getting "useless" XP have something new to strive for, while not diminishing my sense of accomplishement at being a Master. I dunno... hybrid suggestions (some toungue in cheek):
1) entertainer/artisan - so many of you are crafting clothes or instruments, there has to be a way to be some sort of combo... i think a previous poster called it a "recording engineer" which was a great title
2) entertainer/medic - how cool would it be to NOT have to stop dancing to shoot yourself with a stimpack... you might poke an eye out though lol
3) entertainer/brawler - it is logical that a skilled dancer would be a good teras kasi expert (which i've seen alot of people combo up by the way) but wouldn't it be cool if there was a hybrid with bonuses for evasion and special distraction moves in combat that only entertainer TK's could do?
i dunno... i'm sure someone will tell me i got off topic here but i don't think i did.... although feel free to tell me i'm long winded because that i know i am!
Arashi Ise
Master Dancer
"if they would keep Kauri server up and running these poor people wouldn't have to listen to my rantings "
Well, someone sounds like a spoiled brat. I mean surely none of the other dancers earned their rank like she did.She is special. SHESSH. Ihave no problem with macro dancers as long as they are not in the middle of the active foor. Lots of people work a lot of hours, and cannot spend the time on the character so they Macor (imagine months and months of poplock or poplock2 being you best dance arghhhhhhhhhh)
As for the grandmaster discussion I beleave the word we're looking for is Jedi.
I
why do people have to turn nice posts into flames? i'm not a spoiled brat.... you poopie head.
LOL