Dancer Archive
Thread: Making Mind Bufss more acessible...
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Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:05 am
#1
Hi,
My IGN is Glenneoh and I play on the EU:Chimarea server. Please feel free to contact me if you wish to discuss anything I have posted here.
Firstly, I apologise if this idea has been put forward before, I'm new to these forums and the profession. Please bare with me and take the time to read this post fully offering constructive criticism afterwards if you have a point of view about this idea.
Before I start typing out my idea I'd just like to point out what I am. At the moment I am working my way through the entertainer proffesion with the intention of becoming a master musician.
I believe that something needs to be done to make mind buffs more accessible to the customer and eliminate buff bots at the same time.
The problem with mind buffs as things stand, is that there is no consistiency to being able to obtain them. This is because, from what I have observed, most cantinas are full of entertainers that either cannot buff yet, do not make their master status clear or are afk.
The problem does not lie in the actual process of buffing, nobody seems to mind the wait, but in the fact that customers can never be sure of a mind buff. Because they cannot be sure of one being availible, somebody who is going out to fight wearing full suits of armour must find other ways of buffing their mind to a suitable level (vasarian brandy)
My proposal is to allow musicians and dancers to craft pre-recorded mind buffs. Before you dismiss the idea, take thetime to read through my ideas about the actual mechanics of the idea.
Firstly, to actually use the recording to get a mind buff the buffee must be sitting in a cantina. They then activate thier 'holorecording' and wait for their mind buff to comence. Once activated a hologram of the player who recorded the buff will appear. This hologram has to be watched for the full length of the mind buff for the buff to be recieved. My only concern is that this could cause alot of overcrowding in cantinas although to me, it seems the most logical way of doing it.
Once the mind buff is complete the holorecording disappears and another must be purchased for futher mind buffs.
This will make the mind buff a much more comonly used buff simply because the consumer can be sure of recieving one on demand. It is this consistiency in availibility that meant mind buffs never really took off the ground and is why buffbots are so successful; people know they will get one when they make their trip to thier favourite buff bot.
But how will we make these holorecordings I hear you cry. Well, my proposal for the recording of a mind buff is this:
Firstly, a blank holo must be obtained from a master artisan, singularly for one off recordings and in crates for a factory run of them. A blank holo must then be placed in a droid with the relevant entertainer module (preferably a new one called the 'entertainer recording module' or something a bit more imaginative
but you get the idea) The entertainer then selects 'record' in the droids radial menu. The recording will only start once the musician or dancer /setperforms the droid. The musician or dancer must then perform a complete mind buff to finish the recording and select 'stop recording' in the droids radial menu.
but you get the idea) The entertainer then selects 'record' in the droids radial menu. The recording will only start once the musician or dancer /setperforms the droid. The musician or dancer must then perform a complete mind buff to finish the recording and select 'stop recording' in the droids radial menu.Once this process has been completed the musician or dancer has two options; create a single holorecording or create a shematic for use in a factory.
Obviously this would take some time to implement, but I feel it is the best solution for making mind buffs more availible without everybody becoming a buffbot.
Thank you for taking the time to read this post andplease feel free to post your feelings and ideas about this, constructive criticism is greatly apriciated.
Glenneoh
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:15 am
#2
Just thought of something else, but cant edit it into my posts >.<
One of the most important points of view about this is the potential users and basically everybody else this could affect. If it is deemed a good idea by the musician/dancer comunity then I think it would be good idea to post links to this post elsewhere to try and get a broader response.
picklesSW
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:20 am
#3
I don't favor ideas such as this.
For one, we're not a crafting profession. While ideas like this would definitely put money in our pockets, I dread the idea of people buying crates of holorecordings and no longer needing to find a live entertainer.
Second, if the problem is finding an entertainer to deliver a buff, they can spend that time implementing those ideas that we've put forward to do so. Fix registration. Allow individual names under the registration. Allow us to plan appearance and advertise them. Place us in the 'find' menu (Nearest Master Dancer). Etc. There are lots of ways to implement ways to help customers find us if that is the problem.
Third, this is yet another way for AFKers and buffbots to make money while not there in our profession. Sure, it evens the playing field as ATKs now have a chance to sell buffs also, but in the end we'll have even MORE anti-social people joining our profession just to make a quick buck on holorecordings.
I'm not trying to shoot down your creative idea. In fact, I like the concept and the way it also involves other professions to craft these devices. It just goes against the concept of the profession in that what we want is a live audience, and anything that allows people to get healing or buffs without a live entertainer endangers that.
For one, we're not a crafting profession. While ideas like this would definitely put money in our pockets, I dread the idea of people buying crates of holorecordings and no longer needing to find a live entertainer.
Second, if the problem is finding an entertainer to deliver a buff, they can spend that time implementing those ideas that we've put forward to do so. Fix registration. Allow individual names under the registration. Allow us to plan appearance and advertise them. Place us in the 'find' menu (Nearest Master Dancer). Etc. There are lots of ways to implement ways to help customers find us if that is the problem.
Third, this is yet another way for AFKers and buffbots to make money while not there in our profession. Sure, it evens the playing field as ATKs now have a chance to sell buffs also, but in the end we'll have even MORE anti-social people joining our profession just to make a quick buck on holorecordings.
I'm not trying to shoot down your creative idea. In fact, I like the concept and the way it also involves other professions to craft these devices. It just goes against the concept of the profession in that what we want is a live audience, and anything that allows people to get healing or buffs without a live entertainer endangers that.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:28 am
#4
I agree with some of what you are saying but live entertainers will still be required because you will need them to heal your BF and mind wounds. Buffs will still be availible live (although less are likely to be required)
I really dont want people to be able to heal without live entertainers, and this is not what the idea was intended for, I guess that wasnt very clear in the post.
If the holorecordings are only useable to deliver buffs, AFK buffbots should disapear, Musicians and dancers will have more cash in their pockets and cantinas will still need to be busy because of the continuing need for live entertainers.
To what you said about not being a crafting proffesion. You still wouldnt be crafting. All components required to create a holorecording would be aquired through other profesions. All the dancer or musician would do is record onto these items and possibly use a crate of identical blanks along with a schematic for a recording to create multiple recordings.
I still dont see how it could do anything but good for dancers and musicians.
kirah_ashlin
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:36 am
#5
This idea has been bandied about quite a bit in one fashion or another. I am of the opinion that itwould indeed end up being detrimental to the profession rather than assisting it.
We are an active profession. What we do is live. To do otherwise negates the entire idea behind the grand experiment. As Javy mentioned, this would open up another venue for buffbotsand AFKers to "use" our profession.
We are limited in the items we can viably craft that affect our profession. Musicians can craft instruments (you may have seen the thread in the Musician Forum regarding instrument decay) but Dancers have nothing they can craft at all. There is the possibility of crafting buff packs (similar to the doctor ones) which would make it possible for only entertainers to use them. However, since there are also doctor buffbots, that can be exploited, too.
As this little dancer sees it, making the buff more accessible isn't as much the issue as making the live entertainer more valuable to the playerbase.
PS - you can't edit posts until after you've reached over 100 posts. No, it doesnt' make much sense . . .
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 07-14-2004 07:51 AM
picklesSW
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:40 am
#6
Ah, sorry I misunderstood, most other people who put forward this concept also include the healing.
Your proposal, as stated, does even the playing field against buffbots. Since SOE is showing no desire to address the buffbot issue at all, and if they continue that stance, then I might support an idea like this. It does, after all, even the playing field. I would be against crafting crates of holorecordings, though. Let the artisans craft the blank discs in crates, but I would make entertainers record each one individually. That way we're still spending 3+ minutes crafting each one and it'll prevent mass flooding of the market by a few people selling them cheaply.
I'd still prefer the solution that they simply disable buffbots though, and return us to the way we were.
Your proposal, as stated, does even the playing field against buffbots. Since SOE is showing no desire to address the buffbot issue at all, and if they continue that stance, then I might support an idea like this. It does, after all, even the playing field. I would be against crafting crates of holorecordings, though. Let the artisans craft the blank discs in crates, but I would make entertainers record each one individually. That way we're still spending 3+ minutes crafting each one and it'll prevent mass flooding of the market by a few people selling them cheaply.
I'd still prefer the solution that they simply disable buffbots though, and return us to the way we were.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:46 am
#7
Just noticed a typo in the thread title. lol.
Read through soem of the issues in the sticky at the top, and this idea is one of them.
I still cant see as it would be detrimental to the proffesion.
Yes, a live entertainer wouldnt be required to give mind buffs, but how many entertainers actually give mind buffs ATK? except to thier alts. The only differences I could see it making are entertainers becoming more valuable to the comunity because more people will come to use mind buffs regularly and there being more money in the entertainers pockets
The cantinas will still be as full as they are now, if not fuller, because people sitll need their BF/wounds healed.
The cantinas will still be as full as they are now, if not fuller, because people sitll need their BF/wounds healed.No matter what is done to make entertainers easier to find, I still feel that you will never be able to get mind buffs in the same regularity that you can doctor buffs and this will continue to be the mind buffs downfall unless something like this is implemented.
I think alot of entertainers cling to tightly to the idea that the ONLY thing an entertainer should do is perform, and even then only do it live. The idea I put forward in this thread is still performing, just not live, and im sure would benifit the entertaining proffesions greatly.
PoetDancer
Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:55 am
#8
I have a different solution to the issue. Why not just allow anybody who listens or watches get a mind buff? Why does it need to be specifically targeted or issued via group? We have always had some measure of control with /deny. This way, any dancer with sufficient abilities, be they AFK, ATK, buffbot, or whatnot can buff you simply by watching them.
Because we simply feel uncomfortable with a procedure that puts the owness on us to make sure you are doing your part. We simply want to dance, and let you /watch or /listen to us.
Goldy_Lhim
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:43 am
#9
PoetDancer wrote:
I have a different solution to the issue. Why not just allow anybody who listens or watches get a mind buff? Why does it need to be specifically targeted or issued via group? We have always had some measure of control with /deny. This way, any dancer with sufficient abilities, be they AFK, ATK, buffbot, or whatnot can buff you simply by watching them.
Because we simply feel uncomfortable with a procedure that puts the owness on us to make sure you are doing your part. We simply want to dance, and let you /watch or /listen to us.
Actually this is how it was at launch, just no one knew it.We didn't have the modify column in the stats window, the customer got no message, it just applied and both the dancer and customer were oblivious.The buffs were weaker but just watching would in fact give a mind buff, most folks just never noticed. I think it was around month 3 that dancers started realizing that they did this and started working on how to use it to their advantage. They advertised its use, incouraged folks to try it (this was before denyservice and setperform) trying to get people see how useful it was.
The biggest problem was the AFK dancers. Customers would come in and purposely ignore live dancers. Why? They could get the same buff for free from Sally-AFKpants. They could get healed, buffed, etc and then go on their merry way with all their credits still in tact. Obviously live dancers took offense to this.
Apart from that, master dancers that travelled the globe to heal in remote areas of the galaxy were often treated as if they were afk. People could walk in snatch a buff of her and then go off happily making more money off his mission terminals. Our leverage to ask for payment for our services was nothing. We couldn't /denyservice, our only choice was to stop dancing, which hurt everyone watching including those paying for the heal. We needed to be able to control the buff's application to make it a viable service, doctors ask for payment for their buffs, I see no problem in dancers doing the same.
The /setperform system is very superior than just letting anyone buff at anytime without control. Without it we pretty much have no bargining power. I'm not saying you have to charge, I'm saying most of us do and we can't do it without controlling buff application.
Only thing I wish, is that it was more stable. Buffs randomly will just not stick causing me to redo the buff or just go without payment. I like the holo-recording idea. I always have. If it doesn't heal, even better. There will always be buffbots, I see no wayfor SOE to stop someone from buying extra accounts just to buff them.But if they are able to make money holo-recording or just use the holo-recording for personal use, perhaps they'll record at home and clear out of the cantina.
EsistDarkSky
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:55 am
#10
I know this is off topic here, but, meh. This got me thinking.
Why not just make a tool that an ent would need to perform a buff? Like a holorecording... Something like that. It's the equivalent of Doctor buffs, you have to open your inventory and click on em, and they eventually run out. That's why you don't see AFK Doctor Buffbots... It would put a stop to buffbots,wouldn't it?
picklesSW
Wed Jul 14, 2004 8:16 am
#11
EsistDarkSky wrote:I know this is off topic here, but, meh. This got me thinking.Why not just make a tool that an ent would need to perform a buff? Like a holorecording... Something like that. It's the equivalent of Doctor buffs, you have to open your inventory and click on em, and they eventually run out. That's why you don't see AFK Doctor Buffbots... It would put a stop to buffbots,wouldn't it?
Yes, and that's the very reason why they won't do it, or anything like it. They will not kill buffbots in any way that makes it harder to find a buff. To do so would invite the wrath of the majority of their player base. In essense, they've opened Pandora's box here, and whether they like the result or not, they can't simply shut it again.
Truly, if they wanted to kill buffbots, they don't need anything that complex. Remove the /join command. Done.
DarkY0da
Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:56 am
#12
It really wouldn't stop buffbots though. As it does nothing to stop them. They would then just be more likely to park the bots on the adventure planets more often then they do now. I like the idea of the recording. But it doesn't stop butt bots. And all the work that would be put into doing something like that... Well we have suggested a ton of much much easier to implement ideas using already in place game mechanics. And they aren't going to happen any time soon. If after they do something to take out butt bots then I would be all for this. I really liked the part about making them go to a cantina to have to use it.
PoetDancer
Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:37 pm
#13
The problem I see, Goldy, is that making the buffing process go through more safeguards is to the buffbot's advantage, not ours. We have a much more controlled system for buffing now as opposed to the previous system, and the playes are still getting buffs from SallyAFKPants regardless. All the current system does is give SallyAFKPants the tools available to manipulate the buffing process to her advantage through a preprogrammed code. I do not think an unattended character should have these tools. If SallyAFKPants wants to dance unattended, then she needs to know that she will be unable to control who gets a buff from her, and have no way to tell who she is giving a buff to.
However, we as live performers will still have all the tools we will need to keep from getting taken advantage of, even without an actively targeted and/or group buff. /Deny is a sufficient tool in my estimation to prevent an abuse from occurring. Stopping the performance and walking away is another method. But then again, one can only /deny someone if they see them, no? That is why we will not be taken advantage of. SallyAFKPants? She should have to be at the monitor to have control over who uses her. Unfortunately, the new safeguarded process of buffing gives her all the tools she needs to determine who can and cannot get a buff off of her without even having to be at the keys. And this gives her the leverage to turn her abandonment of play into a money making endevour.
Us? We don't want to be paid for buffs. We may think we do, but we don't. Otherwise, we would have to think a buffbot should be paid big money for churning out buffs 24/7. We want to be paid, yes. But not for buffs. We want to be paid on the basis of how we were always paid: for being amusing, creative, and fun while we give the buff. This can only happen if buffs become less of an actively targeted choice, and more of an unintended consequence of doing the only thing we really want to do: dance, play, and facilitate cantina fun.
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