Dancer Archive

It would make more sense to keep the tree, boxes, and titles but remove the SP requirement. Make all of the Novice Entertainer boxes cost zero skill points to invest in, but leave Dancer, ID, and Musician the way they are (maybe tweak Dancer and Musician to be just like ID).

It would also make sense to make all of our leveling quest based instead of XP based. It would really improve cantinas and the leveling experience - no more bored AFK levelers.

I understand how recomending the elimination of a class that isnt directly under your control seems odd

but entertainer is not like the other classes it is basicaly bits of 3 other classes torn up

it also has been destroyed by changes made to make it fit into the CU

entertainer being removed I dont think would upset anyone they could just take the skills in the profession they want

but lets assume that it would upset people (every change good or bad dose upset someone)

every musician would be happy as it would gain them back 19pts and allow them to get a song that they would have to master entertainer to get

being forced to image design and dance to get the one song

Dancers and Immage designers would benifit the same way so already we have 3 happy classes

entertainers for the most part are people who want to be musicians or dancers or image designers these people that are forced to take it would also be happy

the much smaller percent of people that would be upset at the loss of entertainer could take the bits of the professions they want from the 3 mains

no one realy louses in this.

entertainers are mostly selfless people that want to please others there is no advantage play wise for taking more than one box of entertainer except to make the game better for everyone by playing a larger varity of songs and doing more dances they are being punished for this greatly by being forced to take a large ammount of there points up to do a few extra dances and play a few songs.

unlike any combat profession you dont get any more damage or money or anything from being better you just get to be able to please others in the game so let them do it without having to kill any chance of being usefull in other ways remove the entertainer put the skills in the classes they belong and help them to keep all the players of SWG ENTERTAINED.

please just run this idea past the Dev team keep in mind that the entertainer crew can then be reasigned to the 3 classes adn they would get a boost in manpower and time and everyone wins even more!

Faydra former misician

Eshie is telling you that the appropriate forum for this is the Entertainer forum, not the Dancer one.

C

man wouldn't it be funny if there were a combat hybrid class that had the entertaine line as a prerequisite? Like what if there were some hybrid of Fencer that included fire dot swordsbut requried the props line from entertainer to use it? Or maybe sl's would have to have it for charisma. Not a suggestion (as it's a horrible idea), just a bit amusing to think about.

ok, i'll go back to my regularly scheduled trolling now. Please carry on.

I would object to quest-based skill gaining if the devs show the singular lack of creativity and ability to make FUN quests that they so far have. Most quests are an exercise in patience and ability to endure tedium (e.g., "go kill 35 Kashyyyk banthas", "Go entertain until 30 different people /watch you, specifically, not just your band but YOU.") If this is the sort of thing they would do for quests, no thank you.

Now, if they are going to do some GOOD quests that are fun, then I might change my mind. But I have no reason to think SOE is capable of coming up with such quests when, so far in 2 years, they haven't made a single one. So I am not gonna hold my breath..

C

Well, it would make me chuckle. Plus I'd pick up what ever hybrid prof it was just for the SP cost reduction.

Seriously though, Juggler could totally be put in as a Melee/Ent hybrid and I actually think it would be really fun.

I'm not sure how to reply Faydra without sounding really snarky but I'll try.

I'll avoid the actual posting to save space, but you could take that original post, replace "entertainer" with "marksman" and replace "song" or "dance" with "combat special" and you'd have an argument for the removal of marksman. Ditto for brawler. If it's true for entertainer, why isn't it true for those two professions? Wouldn't riflemen be happier if they didn't have to learn carbine and pistol skills in order to get Lethal Shot? Should a pikeman have to learn fencing and unarmed martial arts just to get Parry/Riposte? Why should a crafter have to learn cooking and merchant skills just to be able to craft a vehicle?

Why not just get rid of basic professions entirely? If you say "Oh no, I meant that we should only eliminate entertainer!" then I'd like to see a justification for singling out the entertainer professions for this gutting. Why are the other basic professions "valid" but entertainer is "unneccesary"?

*heh* Mostly I was feeling snarkey because the OP chose to post his topic in every forum BUT the entertainer forum where it rightly belonged.

My real beef with this kind of idea is the same as the idea that non-combat profs ought to come with combat levels. It's just a variation on the "I want to have everything" idea. Should the entertaining trees have been arranged differently? Probably. If I had designed them, I'd have had dancer, musician and ID (well, ID is the red-headed step-child that never really needed to be part of entertainer) as the basic profs and Entertainer as the elite umbrella that encompassed them all.

The game is designed so that you have to travel a certain path in order to reach your desired template. My question remains - Why have basic profs at all? Combat pre-reqs and skills "feel" right because that's what we've all been conditioned to accept since the day that D&D first hit the shelves. How can it honestly "feel right" to have to go through marksman to rifleman and feel "wrong" to have to go through entertainer to musician? Sure, other games give you emotes like "air guitar" for free and they'll even let you have one or more dance moves for free. However, that's all those things are: fancy emotes. If entertaining is a PROFESSION then it ought to have the same progression style as a combat profession. Marksman is the SWG equivalent of EQ's newbie yard killing bats and snakes. Should EQ players just skip the newbie stuff and, like UO does now, just be able to buy a level 30 character (roughly analagous to beginning a novice elite prof)?

I certainly won't argue about whether "many players feel thus and such". People always want to have it all. Using politican and pilot as examples doesn't wash with me (your mileage may vary) for two reasons:

1. Each of those was added to the game in order to support specific new functionality that didn't have an existing basic tree to use as a pre-req.


2. Each of those is a neccesary skill in order to fully use the new content that came with them and people wouldn't use it or would complain loudly and bitterly if it required giving up their current hard-earned skills in order to do so. Politician has zero skill points today because too few people were willing to drop their existing professions in order to play the city management game. Or maybe the city management game was too boring long-term to hold onto its players, take your pick.

Nothing in the entertainer tree is neccesary in order to access content. If SOE introduced a set of two new dances that were available to all players (preferably learned from a dancer!) then 90% of the combat people who say "wouldn't it be great if Entertainer had no skill cost?" would happily shut up about it. They don't want a zero-cost profession. They want a fancy dance emote like they have in the other games. They want it as a skill because this game makes that possible where the other games don't.In the end, it's still just a fancy emote to pull out when they're bored or celebrating at a party.

I simply don't agree with people who approach their skill point problems by saying "I want more skill points so let's get rid of profession X or make it zero skill points." Why not just totally make us into EQ in space and make ALL of the crafting and entertaining trees into 0 SP trees and acknowledge that combat profs are the only ones that "make sense" as professions?

If we're going to change the design, then let's change the design of the entire game instead of focussing on making it easier to get some skills from some other prof that we wish we could have in addition to what we are allowed to have.

Message Edited by SlickRiptide on 09-12-2005 09:20 AM

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Faydra wrote:

they are being punished for this greatly by being forced to take a large ammount of there points up to do a few extra dances and play a few songs.

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the diffrence between removing entertainer vs marksman is that marksman is one of the most usefull professions

every combat class needs ranged combat branch, and the higher you get in it the better

Entertainer the birst box is all people NEED the rest is for pure joy of others and yourself

(why is this double spaced???)

Marksman also grants a higher CL with each box making it veary appealing while if you want to be a dancer or musician only the boxes in other professions are a hinderance and the top of the entertainer a expensive one dance or song or immage design.

The CL changes Gutted the Entertainer class leaving only a shell a large speedbump for the selfless people who want to entertain other and make the game a better place

Removing the Entertainer bump and taking its skills into each of the 3 classes would work would be easer than most other changes and would reduce the stabes in the dark that the Dev team is taking to make the class better

Think what you would do with the extra 19pts?? how nice it would be? and if you are an exclusive musician dancer or immage designer and took the entire tree to get that one song dance or immage design your getting back SEVENTY SEVEN POINTS!

you cant compair marksman a UBER usefull tree with entertainer a novice class gives you all you need and anything ense is for trule PERFORMERS not jsut people wishing to buff there friends

If the Teams for dancers musicians and Immage designers could get togeather and talk this over and look at the numbers you can plainly see that its a great boon to only the people wishing to use dancing Musician and immage to Roleplay and Entertain others selflessly and dosnt hurt play balance

the entertainer team can easly be split into the 3 other classes increasing the number of people and resourses for the 3 classes.

all the other base classes offer a lot to the master classes, entertainer is just a punishment for people trying to have fun

Fay former Musician