Dancer Archive
Thread: My idea for a revamp...(An if I were a dev post)
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Taewyn
Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:05 pm
#1
Dancer, An overview and a philosophy of roles in an MMO: Dancer, as a profession, is a class that should draw in players that are deemed as “social” types. These players are, by the norm, the people that intertwine the games other groups of players together. So, as a by product of offering this group their own class, this class should offer tangible and valuable benefits to the other groups of players within the game, as to achieve this goal of interaction. Meaning, the usefulness of the dancer class should not adhere totally to combat or combat oriented down-time, but should also include other play types within its benefits, such as crafting.
A majority of this social interaction should be solely beneficial to those who wish to interact and not, for the most part, forced upon the players. Any “forced” interaction; such a wound healing should be kept to a minimal, as to allow for the process to be done quickly and without the need for prolonged exposure to other players, should the player be a solo-centric type of player.
However, the more beneficial or valuable the commodity the dancer provides is (least being wound healing, most being a strong buff), the more time and interaction should be placed within the process of delivering that commodity. This interaction exists throughout all points of a working MMO, from groups to raids, each class offers a needed service for higher end content, ergo, the more difficult the task, the longer and more intertwined the role must be of said class in the process, such as a combat class expending an hours worth of time to defeat a high end mob (this is the case in “working” MMOs).
Dancer should be no different, save that a dancer’s role should come before the task at hand, be it crafting or combat, takes place. This role should be usable and sustainable throughout the task required, IE it must remain useful through the extent of an encounter, or the “buff” will be viewed as little more then a remedial, inconvenient and non-useful form of preparation.
The point of this design is to offer a solution to the role dancers and a place for them in the mechanics of the game. The first step is an over-hauling of the battle fatigue system. The first part of this would be replacing battle fatigue with “Mental Fatigue”.
Mental Fatigue (MF): MF will be accumulated, slowly, from taking wounds, healing, commanding pets and crafting. The accumulation of this stat should be minimal per each action and it should have no direct ill effect on the character. MF will instead will be the new “duration” timer on most entertainer provided enhancements, except of course the “mind buff” which would work like all other buffs.
When a players MF reaches 1000 whatever entertainer buff that is currently active will fade, and he will be ineligible for a new buff until his MF reaches 0. How these buffs will work, in theory, is covered under buffs (which is next hehe).
Dancing Buffs: Unlike normal buffs, dancing buffs will remain active for either a period of 24 hours, until the player chooses to dissolve them, or until the player reaches 1000 BF. Only one dancing buff can be used at a time.
Crafter and Combat oriented types should each have a few buffs to choose from when using the services of a dancer. The buffs should, in a large part, resemble how skill based food works. They should be able to offer everything from small experimentation bonuses, to small +accuracy bonuses.
The player may then use these “buffs” for a period of 24 hours, or until he becomes so mentally exhausted that his relaxation from the performance fades. As such, this may better simulate the role of dancers being “entertainment” or people that allow audiences to give their minds a rest, there by refreshing and enhancing them.
Dispensing Buffs: One of the largest obstacles facing dancers and their role in the community, is their limited or difficult accessibility to the player base. Most namely, players find it to complex or unreliable to receive a buff from an individual dancer.
Also, the dispensing of Dancer buffs proves to be wholly non-challenging, to the point that it invites “AFK” game play. This can be more readily resolved by adding a GUI (Graphical use interface) to the buffing system, as well as a “performance” system, which would offer a challenge to the dancer, based on the strength of the buffs the dancer wishes to offer.
The GUI system would work by the patron bringing up the radial menu on a performer, once selecting “watch” the patron may browse through a list off buffs the dancer or the group is currently offering. Once selected, the patron will be asked to in-put a pre-determined price and will then be given a timer. Once the timer is up, the buff will be delivered.
Setting of the price will be pre-determined by each dancer, or the group leader. Buffs would not be individually chosen by the dancer, instead, a wide selection of buffs will be available, depending on how difficult the “performance challenge” is that the dancer or group accomplished or is doing. An example would be, if the dancer does an exceptionally hard challenge, then, for a limited time, the dancer may offer any buffs up to and including what is accessed through that challenge. So buffs become a by-product of dancing, dancing does not become a by-product of buffs, as is the case now…
Performance Challenges: These challenges can range from Tier 1- Tier 10 (for example) and will vary from simple tests performed every few minutes for tier 1, to more difficult challenges for tier 10. Depending on which tier of challenges the Dancer chooses to do, a new line of buffs would open. So, as an example, if the Dancer does the Tier 3 challenges, then for 20 minutes or so, everyone who chooses to /watch that dancer may choose from any buff that is available from tier 1- tier 3.
The challenge will be handled in much the same fashion as an encounter or difficult crafting process for other classes are handled. At pre-determined intervals the server will ask to perform a series of flourishes, the accuracy and timing of those flourishes will determine whether or not the dancer passes or fails the challenge. Certain challenges, such as Tier 7- 10 ones would require accuracy ratings above 100% or they would require a greater number of flourishes then the dancer can do given the action bar (The HAM revamp would need to be done first), these challenges would require a band or group to offset the difficulty of the challenge.
Upon completing the challenge, the dancer or group would be given a certain amount of time to enter a cool down or rest period, during this time their action bars would slowly replenish (even while dancing) for the next challenge. This interval could be set to 20, 15 or 10 minutes, depending on the difficulty of the challenge. During this time, the patrons may select their buff, should a new challenge start it will not affect the patrons buff, pass of fail, as long as he remains watching for the duration of the timer.
These “challenges” would be required to any performer who is performing. This would hopefully have the effect of *always* making watching a dancer useful and worthwhile, as even low level dancers could offer a small, but meaningful buffs or heals, while still keeping the profession fun and engaging.
Also, a few notes...Dancers could choose *not* to perform challenges and just dance, however, the dances would do nothing but provide visual stimuli. For *everything* the dancer does that has a mechanic in game (like even wound or MF healing) would require the dancer to perform challenges...For wound/MF healing this challenges would be remidial and simple (like fighting a chuba 
)...While, more difficult challenges would take a high level dancer or perhaps a group. This would allow dancers to still dance, just for the heck of it, while still maintaining the mechanic of "play" for providing a tangible benefit to other classes.
)...While, more difficult challenges would take a high level dancer or perhaps a group. This would allow dancers to still dance, just for the heck of it, while still maintaining the mechanic of "play" for providing a tangible benefit to other classes.Sorry, was just writing last night and decided to take a stab at it...hehe, dont flame me to bad if you think its really dumb.
Message Edited by Taewyn on 11-19-2004 03:15 PM
DarkY0da
Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:07 pm
#2
Ahh exactly the sort of things I was looking for in my (The future of entertainment) thread. This is the sort of stuff we need to talk about and have ready to present to them when it comes time for our revamp.
Taewyn
Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:18 pm
#3
Ahh exactly the sort of things I was looking for in my (The future of entertainment) thread. This is the sort of stuff we need to talk about and have ready to present to them when it comes time for our revamp.
Doh, sorry 
..I just saw that thread now.
..I just saw that thread now.
DanceRulez
Fri Nov 19, 2004 2:38 pm
#4
Would also go in my "Where do we go from here" thread. I'll have to look for yours, though, Oh-orb. I haven't seen it yet.
PoetDancer
Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:45 pm
#5
I was going to post a lengthy response, and I do appreciate the desire to want to redesign the profession. But what I do today simply would not translate well into this system you propose. In fact, if this came about, I'd have to become a politician or a Tailor, because the profession as I have known it and have played it will be pretty much gone, and replaced with something that puts the emphasis of what we are about on everything but the attempt to amuse the audience.
And if we want to go that route with the profession, then by all means do. But chances are, I won't want to play it.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 11-19-2004 04:46 PM
Reachwind
Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:25 pm
#6
Taewyn, I am going to have to agree with Sirii on this one... This sounds like a good blueprint for a medic or a crafter class but not an entertainer.
The key goals that need to be met for an entertainer are;
A good protected stage area (so you can perform without being interrupted).
A good system for performing (enough tools to create a unique and enjoyable show if you have a spark of imagination and a good working knowledge of your tools).
A way to market and profit from entertaining.
Looking at these key goals you need to design a need for the audience to want to be at the performance. A way for an entertainer to profit from the performance. Most importantly you need to design a way for good performers to be worth more than bad performers. have a few ideas which I'll write up later.
The key goals that need to be met for an entertainer are;
A good protected stage area (so you can perform without being interrupted).
A good system for performing (enough tools to create a unique and enjoyable show if you have a spark of imagination and a good working knowledge of your tools).
A way to market and profit from entertaining.
Looking at these key goals you need to design a need for the audience to want to be at the performance. A way for an entertainer to profit from the performance. Most importantly you need to design a way for good performers to be worth more than bad performers. have a few ideas which I'll write up later.
MadLeprechaun
Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:42 pm
#7
ouch, head....hurt
am i the only confused by this thing. makes absolutley no sense to me....
Xyrdre
Fri Nov 19, 2004 5:51 pm
#8
Keep working on all these threads and ideas! You guys are all so smart; the threads beginning to look to our future, and what might be done with a revamp, came just before I was going to post a thread soliciting just this kind of discussion. You're all on the right track... keep it up!
Taewyn
Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:19 pm
#9
I also want dancers to perform for people and for people to simple apreciate how dancers, well, dance. However, how many people in real society have gone to see the ballet, or to even see a professional dance troop? Or even the opera for that matter? And, on the same level, how many people can go see a rock concert more then every few months?
People, and gamers are no exception, normally do not take the time out to go and just enjoy something....Aside from the occasional movie, people just normally do not do this and, on many levels, its kind of sad, but it is how it is.
Within the game is no different...Unless you can offer certain classes tangible benefits for coming to watch you, then they will not come...Or, you could, as the current system does, offer a stick instead of a carrot (Meaning visit one or your play will be hindered).
What this does, hopefully, would be to offer all players a benefit for watching entertainers, while not requiring the entertainer to concentrate on transactions with the audiance. Instead, the entertainer is simply required to perform well and that performance will offer a side selection of buffs that the player who is watching can choose.
The point of this is to make buffs the by-product of performing and dancing well...Not make dancing the by product of needing buffs....By passing the challenges and dancing well, the dancer will always provide good and accesable buffs, so, in a sense, buffs would bea secondary benefit to dancing, not the primary reason for it.
Message Edited by Taewyn on 11-19-2004 07:20 PM
Drygo
Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:33 pm
#10
I think what Poet and Reach are saying is definitely worthy of discussion. I like Taewyn's idea for the most part. But, I have always kind of liked mini-games, and that's basically what these challenges would be if I'm reading correctly. But, it is true, that under this system, we really wouldn't be able to perform the way we want to perform when dispensing these buffs. In a sense, because we'd be required to perform these challenges in a certain manner in order to be successful, I would disagree that buffs would be secondary to dancing. In effect, the buff and having to dispense it in a certain manner does hinder the dancing and performance. It basically takes the creativity entirely out of the game mechanics. Even now, in the dire straits that we're in, when performing a buff, we are still allowed to be as creative as we want to be when doing so. And, I also think that if we have to perform in a certain way, we'd be concentrating on getting it right instead of chatting and being amusing.
Now, I really *do* like the idea of the mini-game challenges, but I wonder if that wouldn't be a better thing for the mission terminals? After all, if it were worthwhile to actually take a term mission these days, we'd more often than not be doing it in front of an empty hotel or cantina. It wouldn't be a hindrance to performing to do missions if they were set up this way. In fact, I think they could be a lot of fun. So, I'd like to see the challenges in the game as you proposed, only have them for missions instead of buffing.
I do like all the other ideas you presented in relation to buffing, though. I like the Mental Fatigue system as you outlined, I like the idea of browsing for the enhancement buff of your choice, I like the set fee arrangement. Of course, if I were to throw out the "challenges" aspect, or relegate that to mission terminals, then you run the risk of buffbots. And, until afk no longer exists, it's always important, IMO, to look at every enhancement through "buffbot colored glasses." It may happen to be that by the time our revamp comes it will be a non issue. If it is, then I think keeping your buff revamp idea without the challenge aspect would be great because it wouldn't hinder our performances or ability to chat with the customers.(But, like I said, I really like the idea of challenges for missions). I guess then the problem would be how do we differentiate the types of buffs and the difficulty of buffs along the lines of the tiers that you mentioned? Maybe it would simply be a timing or flourish issue, I'm not quite sure. But, I'd like to see an MF system as you proposed that would keep us free to perform how we want to perform.
Taewyn
Fri Nov 19, 2004 6:48 pm
#11
I think what Poet and Reach are saying is definitely worthy of discussion. I like Taewyn's idea for the most part. But, I have always kind of liked mini-games, and that's basically what these challenges would be if I'm reading correctly. But, it is true, that under this system, we really wouldn't be able to perform the way we want to perform when dispensing these buffs. In a sense, because we'd be required to perform these challenges in a certain manner in order to be successful, I would disagree that buffs would be secondary to dancing. In effect, the buff and having to dispense it in a certain manner does hinder the dancing and performance. It basically takes the creativity entirely out of the game mechanics. Even now, in the dire straits that we're in, when performing a buff, we are still allowed to be as creative as we want to be when doing so. And, I also think that if we have to perform in a certain way, we'd be concentrating on getting it right instead of chatting and being amusing.
Yes you are reading it right and absolutly they bring up good points ...
...The only thing that I might not have gotte across well is how I envision these challeneges...They would not last longer then a minute or two and would be followed by a 10 or 20 minute cool down. So, a majority of the time, the dancer would be performing exactly what they wanted to perform. This offers the mini-game, while still allowing for alot of interaction and personal lee-way in the dances.
The challenges though are pretty much there to counter "buff bots" as you mention...They are pretty much a spot check by the system to make sure the dancer is there and to offer a little enganging game play to the dancer (but again, not overly consuming, less then 10% of the dance time per hour should be spent in "challenges".)
If there was a way to eliminate buff bots...If they ever do, then yes, I would love to see the rest of the ideas come about...Where the dancer can simply just dance and that dance, depending on the group size and level of the dancer, would offer a wide array of buffs that the patron could choose..
Message Edited by Taewyn on 11-19-2004 07:50 PM
PoetDancer
Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:08 pm
#12
The biggest problem I see from a gameplay perspective is what will become of the dancers who are levelling. What means do they really have to get credits out of the cantina when somebody who is of a greater skill level can collect tips just for being /watched?
One of the things that I miss from the old days before buffs was the fact that this class did not suffer from the "Master uber alles" syndrome of other classes. You couldn't package and distribute the things that were done, and as a result you couldn't force a tip for mechanics. Masters could draw more players to the venue, but they still had to put on a show, or else they'd not get tipped as much. Novices had a game to play in the cantina with a master as well. Because they could benefit from the master-level mechanics being available, and could be tipped for completely different criteria than who /watches whom.
We still have this to some extent, but it has suffered under the current buffing system. Players have been sort of "trained" to tip only for the /watch and the /setperform or /invite, and that /watch usually takes the form of a master level character who gets penalized by being in a group with novices.
And I fear for the entertainers without BF. Under this new system, the only thing they would be able to heal is this MF, which does not even need to be attended to at all.
Ikewe
Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:14 pm
#13
We still have this to some extent, but it has suffered under the current buffing system. Players have been sort of "trained" to tip only for the /watch and the /setperform or /invite, and that /watch usually takes the form of a master level character who gets penalized by being in a group with novices.
I'm not following what you're trying to explain here Sirii. I'll admit I'm not very sharp at the moment as it's been a very long week for me but... How is the master level character penalized when in a group with novices?
Ikewe, Master Dancer Shadowfire
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