Dancer Archive

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Puertoriqueno wrote:

My wife is an ATKr. She enjoys buffing. She likes to chit chat. She does not dislike AFK buffbots, and I found that odd. She explained.

The problem apparantly is not the bot....it is the ATKrs. They cannot offer anything to the regular player that would outweight the benefit of an AFK buffbot. I have to agree with this. We can get buffs from food, but get much better buffs from Doctors. You dont hear doctors complaining about buff food or spice.

So....why not push for something like a bonus to the mind pool buff when you are ATK? It is not impossible to do. This would encourage us to come to you instead of the buff bot in the corner. As long as you push to have AFK buff bots removed, you will not be taken well in the community as a whole. If this is not a problem for you, then that is fine. If it is, consider another path. You are wasting your time attempting to remove something that 90 percent of the combat community wants to remain.

Just my two cents.

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Shaizann wrote:

Your suggestion has been made before in various forms and proposals over the last year or so. While it's not a bad idea, and I appreciate your thought into it to help the live performer; It is not addressing the root issue of AFK in general. Many full time entertainer would rather the AFK phenomena go away completely.

Personally, I'm one of the folks that would not mind this solution as a compromise of sorts. However, the live bonus would have to be really incredible to make it effective in its intended role. I'm mean it has to make enough of a difference that it has to be a factor in PvP.

Also, don't forget that the set dynamics that govern of how buffs work and consequently the value ofthem is going to be turned on its ear during the Combat Upgrade. All of our ideas about how to address the AFK and 'bot issue will likely change at that time.

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Puertoriqueno wrote:

I dont think you guys understand what I am saying here. AFK entertaining is not going away. Players are resoundingly for it REGARDLESS what entertainers think. You guys just dont have the numbers to stand against it. I am suggesting a way in which everyone would be happy to some degree....I'm sure it would be a loss to both sides, but a minimal one. You may want AFK play to go away, but it will not. Better to fight for something that you can get instead of something you will never see.

Hasn't all of the work and complaining you guys have done shown you that it is not going to change? Wouldn't you rather find a way to make your services more desireable and therefore destroy the draw to an AFK entertainer?

I'm really just trying to come up with something that the devs will listen to. So far they are tuning you out. I dont think they should. Just like smugglers, you guys need to recognize the song and just change the beat.

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Eaca wrote:

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Puertoriqueno wrote:

I dont think you guys understand what I am saying here. AFK entertaining is not going away. Players are resoundingly for it REGARDLESS what entertainers think. You guys just dont have the numbers to stand against it. I am suggesting a way in which everyone would be happy to some degree....I'm sure it would be a loss to both sides, but a minimal one. You may want AFK play to go away, but it will not. Better to fight for something that you can get instead of something you will never see.

Hasn't all of the work and complaining you guys have done shown you that it is not going to change? Wouldn't you rather find a way to make your services more desireable and therefore destroy the draw to an AFK entertainer?

I'm really just trying to come up with something that the devs will listen to. So far they are tuning you out. I dont think they should. Just like smugglers, you guys need to recognize the song and just change the beat.

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Well it doesn't matter how many entertainers we have against it. Only one person needs to be against it for AFK to go away. SOETyrant, and guess what, he's against it. AFK will go away REGARDLESS of how for it the rest of the players are.

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Sorry, but that is not what we are being told. People already have ways around the removal of RECURSIVE macros, which is all they are talking about. They cannot remove AFK play, it is impossible. They have tried to find a way, and the only way is to remove macros completely, and that cant be done. So, no. It wont go away. Even if SOETyrant is against it, and I bet SOETyrant knows that.

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PoetDancer wrote:

The problem is this. We are not the ones whom you have to convince that we deserve a bonus. You have to convince the buffbot owners that they don't deserve the bonus as well. Because they, not we, are the ones that insist that its a different playstyle that should be treated no differently than real players. They don't create buffbots to gain a limited benefit. They create the buffbot to give them the full benefit of this class. Its the only way one can really justify the extra account and extra expense.

Good point. I would say the same thing that was told to me when they took away AFK on surveying. I was not going to sit at my keyboard for 8 hours while I surveyed, and I felt a little slighted. Why should I get penalized and a person at the keyboard gets a bonus? The answer? We encourage ATK play. We discourage AFK play. There will always be bonuses to ATK and negatives to AFK. Good enough for me.

Because they are going to scream nerf at the prospect that theypay $15 a month to have a master dancer and master musician buffer, and that they are penalized for simply "having a different playstyle" than we do. What will you tell them when they argue this to you? Moreover, what will you do when they mimic what live players can do just to get the new bonus using third party applications in secret homes around the server? Because you have to understand that is going to happen, don't you?

The 3rd party program is very much an exploit. It is a bannable offense.

Unattended play is not play. It is an abandonment of play. And unattended play is exploitive play. It is merely an exploit SOE has done nothing about.

I dont agree. It is not abandonment or an exploit unless it is the ONLY use for that character. If I choose to macro farm a spawn point for 5 minutes while I use the bathroom or get the phone I am not exploiting and will fight tooth and nail with ANYONE that says otherwise.

Yes, your not talking about that. OK, then what about 10 minutes? Or 20? what is the threshold? That is the real problem, not that it is allowed or not allowed, but that there is no LIMIT. The definitiion of abuse of the AFK system needs to be defined and implemented.

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Puertoriqueno wrote:

Wow, tough room. Just tried to help from a player's perspective....I'm sorry if I made anyone angry. Just trying to give my opinion. I will digress.....

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True enough, we're a tough room these days. We're just fed up with the whole thing afer a year plus. I know that a compromise might be in order, but I certainly don't want to have to do it. I don't feel I should have to compromise with a player that has automated their toon. I share the view that AFK is *not* a playstyle. It is an abuse of a robust macro system that was designed in good faith.

I have a hard time conceiveing that when they put together the macro system they intended people to run automated 'bot services. Such practice is contrary to a MMO environment and in the long run hurts more than it helps. It caters to the loathesome powergame mentality. That being one that wants everything right now, and I'll step on anyone else to get it. Ruining their playtime and or environment is a worthwhile sacrifice if it means my advancment in the puruit of 'leet. It removes some of the player to player interaction from the game and reduces some of the issues a player has to contend with. Then the players can take their super buffs and weapons and run roughshod over the game's content quickly. Then the come complain that there is little content. Finally, they move on to the next Big Thing (tm), because SWG was not engageing in the long term. Ironically, it was their behavior that started that decline. You can't win these games and so the journey is what is important, not the destination. Many players do whatever they can to skip over to the end, and in my opinion, they have missed the point.

I don't like bots at all. I don't like what they've done to my play environment (the cantina) the value of my services, or the atittude players take to me (by assuming I'm just an NPC like automoton) and treat me like dirt.

Ok, this discussion is devolving to an AFK v. Live one, and we should stop before it does or begin anew in the designated sticky.

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Puertoriqueno wrote:

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Eaca wrote:

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Puertoriqueno wrote:

I dont think you guys understand what I am saying here. AFK entertaining is not going away. Players are resoundingly for it REGARDLESS what entertainers think. You guys just dont have the numbers to stand against it. I am suggesting a way in which everyone would be happy to some degree....I'm sure it would be a loss to both sides, but a minimal one. You may want AFK play to go away, but it will not. Better to fight for something that you can get instead of something you will never see.

Hasn't all of the work and complaining you guys have done shown you that it is not going to change? Wouldn't you rather find a way to make your services more desireable and therefore destroy the draw to an AFK entertainer?

I'm really just trying to come up with something that the devs will listen to. So far they are tuning you out. I dont think they should. Just like smugglers, you guys need to recognize the song and just change the beat.

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Well it doesn't matter how many entertainers we have against it. Only one person needs to be against it for AFK to go away. SOETyrant, and guess what, he's against it. AFK will go away REGARDLESS of how for it the rest of the players are.

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Sorry, but that is not what we are being told. People already have ways around the removal of RECURSIVE macros, which is all they are talking about. They cannot remove AFK play, it is impossible. They have tried to find a way, and the only way is to remove macros completely, and that cant be done. So, no. It wont go away. Even if SOETyrant is against it, and I bet SOETyrant knows that.

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