CUEmu - Thread Posts

NyghtsSecond

Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:58 am

I kinda like to look at game design from a macro view and the recent thread about the frustration with ability slots got me thinking about how abilities training is impliemented.

First of all the system seems redundant with both points and slots to be gained. If your RND() is working reasonably well, the average player will see little difference between just assigning slots based upon the points gained. How does the random gain of slots add to the fun of the game? This is the key question.

I think the idea might have been to prevent players from just pluging in level 1 abilities as fast they could, but honestly don't see alot of value in this because the same abliities template can be reached in time anyway and someone committed to this idea is likely to do it anyway.

Secondly the training points thing seems needlessly complicated in that 'x' amount of pet experiance always equals 'x' number of training points, based upon pet level. Why not just let xp accumulate and set xp costs for abilities?

All this looks like just a weak attempt of disguise a straight up skill gain system because they knew there would be cries of 'Grind!'.

My feelings are that RND has no place in a skill gain system. Games that have used it, like UO, eventually added extra systems to lower player frustration (the current impliementation is called they 'garanteed gain system' which insures a minimal gain per time played, the time becoming longer as you near the top).

My question to you all is: Do you think the current system adds to you game play or is it too transparent to make any difference? If you want to complain about the rate of gain fine, but please think about the central question here.

Thanks for your replies.

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"you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself." - someone important...
I am the audience.

Seiryuu

Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:31 pm

#2

How the slots are obtained, since it is just a matter of combat in this case, is not as important as the length of time it takes to get them. If on average it takes too long to get a slot though, whether random or pre-determined, then it becomes problematic.

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NyghtsSecond

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:28 pm

#3

Well, I can see this subject is not gaining a lot of traction here.

I do disagree that how things are accomplished are less important then how quickly they are accomplished. I know a lot of PvP folks focus on the 'how quick' because in a character skill based game, you can't really start playing at PvP until you are close to topped out. PvE has the opposite pulls because its more about the journey then the destination.

I was just pointing out that in general, and also in this specific case, RND is generally not favored by players over more deterministic approaches. One only has to look at the loot complaints to see how much of a common occurance this is. RND is the easy way out.

The xp requirements are unlikely to change for the reasons that Ko points out in the top five list and the fact that it isn't even in the top five. I was hoping to put together proposals for minor easy changes towhat I see as an only 'fair' design. If they are easy enough and low resource enough, they might actually happen.

The primary problems with the current design is that it leaves solos and casuals as second class citizens. And to Ko: surely we can erect other barriers to the return of ceature wars beyond just making it so hidiously laborious that few will want to go uber with it because once again, that is just the 'cheap' way out.

Thanks for your attention.

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"you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself." - someone important...
I am the audience.

sciguyCO

Fri Oct 21, 2005 3:57 pm

#4

RND leads to frustration in a couple of ways for CH.

1) Random chance of ability slot on rollover. I saw someone post about a CL 69 rolling over 3 times without getting a slot (that'd be over a million training xp). Right now, there's not much you can say except "bad luck, it sucks, keep trying". Although some of the other responses seemed to indicate that the slot rewards sped up with more rollovers (including one guy who had a Rancor get two slots on a rollover)

2) Random chance of learning a new ability from a pet.

For #1, there's also the parallel detail of training points. If you aim for L3 abilities, you're going to need a lot of points, so the fact that you need a lot of rollovers to get a slot is less bad. But that also means that you can't grow your pets abilities at the beginning.

#2 can add to the frustration of even finding the ability in the first place.

Both systems do seem to "stack the odds" in your favor as the pet levels (so probably actually rewarding people who use their pets in serious combat rather than just grinding yard trash), but I'd be interested in seeing some exact relationship information. Of course, the devs never like torelease hard numbers, so I'm not holding my breath.

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jopenack

Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:10 pm

#5

Your question can be best answered by looking at warwidows petition, I believe the majority of people dilike the xp system in place right now, but speaking for myslef I'l answer your question

I think the current system was just a ploy to keep ch chasing shadows and grinding forever all in the attempt to plug the leaking player base and keep ch here longer before they quit lol. thats my honest opinion.

I play to have fun and relax a bit, not chase xp. Grinding was never fun to me, once I made master ch I never changed templates I wanted to tame and explore, not use macro's or deal in minless combat with a rinse and repeat attitude. You used the word transparency, it applies here and in so many more examples of why this game is where it is today. It's funny though for me it's all a comic act now. I'm not as mad as I was last year or during the CU, It's because I know I'm just killing time here now. The games future is pretty clear lol. I'm gone probably around the holidays, or at the latest when lotr comes out.

The devs/soe/lucas arts. whoever you want to point fingers at just don't get it and never will if they haven't by now. This last publish is proof that no lessons were learned during the cu and half finished produsts going live will continue to plague this game untill it shuts down.

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Thread: RND function for Ability Slots Good Game Design?