Creature Handler Archive

Thread: New creature damage formula (post publish 17)

OfficerDibble
Sat May 28, 2005 11:22 pm
#1

The Formula


pre publish 17 the actual damage done in combat by any creature was

   DAMAGE = (TOHIT/500)*(MAX-MIN) + ((MAX+MIN)/2)


publish 17 introduced level modifiers and nerfed the to hit bonus, the new formula is as follows:

   DAMAGE = ((TOHIT/1500)+((CL-TL)/30))*(MAX-MIN) + ((MAX+MIN)/2)


CL = creature/pet level
TL = target level
TOHIT = to hit (from datapad)
MIN = minium damage (from datapad) rounded down to nearest multiple of 10
MAX = maximum damage (from datapad) rounded down to nearest multiple of 10

note: damage from pets is capped to be never more than MAX

A few things to note here, the accuracy bonus damage has been reduced to 1/3 of previous bonus, also if your pets are 15+ levels higer than the target they will always hit for MAX damage, and 15+ levels lower they will hit for MIN damage. Grouping with the pets will raise their level to upto 80 which will significantly improve their performance, but against level 80+ creatures/npc's your pets will perform worse in combat than they did prior to publish 17 as they will do less damage and get hit for more damage.


The Data


In order to get a clear picture of any changes I first had to see how my pets performed ungrouped against creatures the same level as themselves to remove any level modifier issues.

   Varactyl:    level 65, 157 to hit, 90-380 damage (95-383)


vs Rhoa Kwi (65) hits for 265 per hit
vs Brackaset Male (65) hits for 265 per hit


Bull Rancor: level 65, 157 to hit, 90-380 damage (95-383)

vs Rhoa Kwi (65) hits for 265 per hit
vs Brackaset Male (65) hits for 265 per hit

Gurreck: level 50, 107 to hit, 80-340 damage (81-342)

vs Rancor (50) hits for 228 per hit

comparing these damage values with the stat average ((max+min)/2) damage of each pet to see any bonus damage

                 actual    average   bonus

Varactyl: 265 235 +30
Bull Rancor: 265 235 +30
Gurreck: 228 210 +18

Assuming the old formula stayed roughly the same, the damage bonus should be

   BONUS=(TOHIT/X)*(MAX-MIN)


thus

X=(MAX-MIN)*TOHIT/BONUS

From these values X=1517,1517 and 1545. Given the margin of error a value of 1500 will suffice. Thus the formula becomes

   DAMAGE=(TOHIT/1500)*(MAX-MIN)+(MAX+MIN)/2

This gives values of 265.35 for the varactyl and bull rancor and 228.55 for the gurreck, which fits the small ammount of data so far...


Now that I had an idea of how much damage my pets should be hitting for, it was time to send the Varactyl in against creatures of different levels.

   Varactyl:    level 65, 157 to hit, 90-380 damage (95-383)


vs Gaping Spider (63) hits for 284 per hit (level bonus of +19)
vs Purbole Stalker(64) hits for 275 per hit (level bonus of +10)
vs Rhoa Kwi Hunter(64) hits for 275 per hit (level bonus of +10)
vs Injured Kwi (60) hits for 313 per hit (level bonus of +48)

Since the to hit bonus is based on the damage *range* it seemed a good place to start for the level bonus

                      bonus     bonus per level   %of range (max-min) 

vs Gaping Spider 19 9.5 3.27%
vs Purbole Stalker 10 10 3.44%
vs Rhoa Kwi Hunter 10 10 3.44%
vs Injured Kwi 48 9.6 3.31%

So it looks like each level above the target creature gives a 3.33% of the damage range bonus. in order words

   LEVEL BONUS=LEVEL_DIFFERENCE*(MAX-MIN)/30

Putting it all togther we get

   DAMAGE=(TOHIT/1500)*(MAX-MIN) + (LEVEL_DIFFERENCE*(MAX-MIN)/30) + (MAX+MIN)/2


consolidating the modifiers from the damage range (MAX-MIN) we get

DAMAGE = ((TOHIT/1500)+(LEVEL_DIFFERENCE/30))*(MAX-MIN) + (MAX+MIN)/2

The Test


Finally after all that, its time to take some completely different pets to a difference planet and test it all out. For this I chose my level 70 shear mite soldier and my level 57 BE veermok.

   BE veermok: level 57, 138 to hit, 80-360 damage (87-361) 


vs giant mawgax (55) - hits for 264 (predicted 264.43)
vs crystal snake (60) - hits for 217 (predicted 217.76)
vs angler (67) - hits for 152 (predicted 152.43)

Shearmite soldier: level 70, 170 to hit, 90-390 damage (99-396)

vs choku hunter (65) - hits for 324 (predicted 324.0)
vs skreeg gatherer (61) - hits for 364 (predicted 364.0)
vs kliknik (72) - hits for 254 (predicted 254.0)

That worked better than expected!


If anyone wants to test this out there are a few things to note, the data I collected was for *melee* damage, ranged damage is a little wierd and hits for slightly more or slightly less than expected. Also make sure that the pet level or group level is within 15 levels of the target otherwise the damage is gated to be within min<->max


I hope someone finds this useful. I've gone all cross eyed now... must sleep.

lammergeier
Sun May 29, 2005 2:40 am
#2

nice work on the old formula.

nice work catching the changes, and offering the new formula.

BioE cloning is still... oddish.

dorelli has gotten some consistent fort/hard/power vs CL data for clones...

the question now is: if acc/def/aggro are 'free' for a given CL, and with five lines of experimentation, where do you steal points to add points?

what's the lowest you can leave armor (fortitude) and health (hardiness), while adding power? and how low can you leave power (which bumps CL, along with fort and hard) while supplementing the clone with CL (which is now a factor) and working towards the max 'to-hit'?

I don't know that an absolute formula for 'pet worthiness' will ever work... though the devs have tried to institute this with the base CL (as with weapon certs... higher CL doesn't always mean better)... but I think that between the CH community (the users) and the BioE community (the crafters), we can come to some sort of consensus as to what IS worth the effort, and what is not.

just think... I could've said /bump instead.



---------------------"...race you to the cloner!"

xaq, Ossifrage: bloodfin-----------------------------------------Sechs: tempest
Lammergeier: bria------------------------------------------------Accipiter: ahazi

Jinks, Zaw ZeroEight, Raphael', Shub-Niggurath, Randolph Carter, Belpo
...the thorns of Test Center

-------------------------------lammergeier tracker
lammergeier
Sun May 29, 2005 2:43 am
#3

also... if you REALLY want to go cross-eyed, take a crack at the BioE side of pets.

if nothing else, compare combat spam resists to DNA fortitude to cloned 'armor effectiveness' to armor value vs resist... it's a heap of fun to track hidden game metrics from IN to OUT, and compare.

migranes ensue.



---------------------"...race you to the cloner!"

xaq, Ossifrage: bloodfin-----------------------------------------Sechs: tempest
Lammergeier: bria------------------------------------------------Accipiter: ahazi

Jinks, Zaw ZeroEight, Raphael', Shub-Niggurath, Randolph Carter, Belpo
...the thorns of Test Center

-------------------------------lammergeier tracker
Joker9125
Sun May 29, 2005 12:18 pm
#4

Almost exactly the results I got earlier




http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=creature_handler&message.id=218063">Clicky To My Sticky

"If nothing else, I've got time to explore some of the other games my friends are playing. It could easily be argued that the NGE is the best thing ever to happen to guild wars" - Me

Velitham MCH
ImpCaptainNelin
Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:44 am
#5

To tired to read it all.... but it looks.... good.... i think.......need coffee......



Darren Darkrott- Cancelled
Darrenn Darkrott- Cancelled
If you cant figure out why... look back on a year ago.
DaBudo2
Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:45 am
#6


Very, very nice work. I actually understood it, too!


The thing I can't help but focus on, though, is that our pets areless effective against the very levels that we need help with. As a CL 80 MCH/Master Pistoleer, what do I care if my CL 66 Rhoa Pack Leader can hit a CL 51 mob for max damage? I could take out a CL 51 mob barehanded (well, maybe I exaggerate). I need my pets to beable to fight CL 79 + mobs - and now pets are even less effective?


This is the very issue I brought up at FanFest, that our pets are ineffective against higher level mobs. The devs continue to maintain that pets are "balanced", though. (Yes, I know the problem is complex, etc. etc.). I remain very curious to see what the devs have in store for CH to make it a viable combat profession.




------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. G. Marx

Pickaroon - MCH, Master Pistoleer, Elder Geek
BOTHEN! WOOHOO!
Barafu
Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:21 pm
#7

Any info from anyone on how things are going currently with publish 18? I noticed that my pets don't get listed as being level 80 any longer in the group info window on the left. However, they do seem to still be receiving the benefits of grouping with me. I mention this since it affects this publish 17 damage formula.



Barafu Firling: Galactic Traveler
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