Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Shouldn't the special abilities of CH be distributed in the CH tree?
Please read until the end as I stated first the facts and trie to find some possible solutions.
-everything special about our pets has been removed (speed, special attacks, resists etc).
-pets are everything to a CH, his/her weapons, armors, friends.
-CH is about loving pets, finding and taming them, spending time with them, pets have a sentimental value; they are not tools.
-ALL PROFESSIONS get their specials in their tree, we don't (ho yes trick 1 and 2 which make us a nice walking circus and who uses teh patrol commands nowadays?).
-ALL PROFESSIONS can dabble in other professions to get more specials, we can't.
-ALL COMBAT PROFESSIONS can be mastered in a matter of days, we can't (but what are we exactly).
-Pets are now losing some of what make them interesting when we tame them, and I think more particularly about the cats which when they are wild outrun us easily, but once tamed have a hard time to keep up with us. Does that mean we feed them with bantha burgers an dthey get too fat?
And why such a huge amount of xp to train them?
-lower the xp requirements for pets to learn abilities.
-give a kind of reward to veteran (a special ability? why not the ability to make a pet of our choice as mount?)
Message Edited by Reksha on 08-15-2005 01:35 PM
Reksha wrote:
Shouldn't the special abilities of CH be distributed in the CH tree?
*shrugs* From scanning the boards, it seems since "the great CH Nerf" the CH boards have been frequented with posts that they were neglected, nerfed too badly, blah blah blah.
Now the devs rolled out a singinficant change to the system for a single class ( CH ), and suddenly the boards have complaints about the implementation of the new system.
Class balance is a relatively subjective thing. While the amount of grinding is significant compared to the other classes, I don't know that I have enough information about what a fully templated L70 pet is going to be like to decide how "underpowered" the new CH class is, if it is at all.
Whether a pet is a trophy, a tool, a companion, or a weapon is something that can be debated endlessly. Your view of a pet can heavily influence your perspective on whether or not abilities should be distributed in the CH tree.
Your point is taken, and known, that we have the longest non-Jedi grind in the game if we want to learn every possible ability from our pets. However,
Joker9125 wrote:
Who can honestly say the sheer legnth of the newCH grind is fair, fun, or balanced? In the time it takes me to learn ONE level 2 ability I can gain 110,000K FS combat XP...
I don't think your math is quite correct, with the current 30:1 ratio for combat XP : FS XP. (It used to be 3:1, but no longer)
110K FS XP now equals 3.3 million regular XP. Assuming the ratio of 10 weapon XP : 1 combat XP still holds true ( it did as of last night : a 7K bol would give 700 combat XP ), this means you accumulate 3M weapon XP in the time it takes to learn one ability.
For assumption purposes, I'll assume that this level 2 creature is level 66 ( highest level to get a L2 ability, worst case scenario ). Since a L66 creature will cap XP at a lower rate than you, I'll assume the ratio is appropriate, with 80:66 ~ 8:7. As a result, this L66 pet will have accumulated 2.625M creature XP by the time you've accumulated 3M weapon XP ( and 300K combat XP ).
As a result, your claim seems to indicate that on average, with worse case pets, you're having to roll over pet XP 7 times to learn the pet ability.
If so, you're very unlucky. Very, very unlucky. I'm typically learning pet abilities in no more than three rollovers, with probably an average of two. L1s take a few more rollovers, but their rollovers are fast enough that I can't say how many they take.
No, I'm not mentioning CH XP, since it's divided with weapon XP on creature kills. If we factor that in, then your claim would actually incur even more pet rollovers to learn that ability ( e.g. if you're getting 4K weapon XP and 3K CH XP per kill, your pet is stilll getting full XP, so he's rolling over nearly twice as many times ).
Currently, I know 19 L1 abilities, 9 L2 abilities, and 5 L3 abilities. During that time, I've managed to convert weapon and combat XP to about 400K FS Reflexes XP. Now, to simplify the math, I'll assume the following:
- L1 abilities were learned without requiring XP ( they weren't, but the XP required should be fairly small ).
- L3 abilities require 1.5X as many XP to rollover as L2 abilities.
Based on that, 400k ~= 9x + 5( 1.5 * x ) = 16.5x
So, I learn one level 2 ability whenever I accumulate ( approximately ) 25K of FS XP ( rounding up ) and a L3 ability whenever I accumulate (approximately ) 37K of FS XP ( again, rounding up ).
Using Excel, I can now guesstimate that it will take approximately 1.5 M ( actual report is 1,515,200 XP, but didn't ever want to round down without explicitly mentioning it) of FS Reflexes XP to learn 25 L2 abilities, and 25 L3 abilities. One branch requires 1.225M XP, so I will easily learn all abilities before I'm finished grinding FS XP to unlock my second character.
Doing a quick check ( MRM/MTKrequires ~12M weapon XP and 840K combat XP, which is tougher than it sounds because of level caps during the ascent ), and I can make a simple comparison, to see how much extra work CHs are going to be required to do, in FS XP conversions for ease of numbers:
Double elite combat profession: equivalent of 442K FS XP, rounding up.
CH learn all pet abilities: 1.5M FS XP ( rounding down slightly ).
Grind six branches of FS Combat/Reflexes XP: 7.5M FS XP ( rounding up slightly ).
Jedi grind: ???
Message Edited by After5CST on 08-16-2005 06:46 AM
Well I am in the process of Grinding Both CH/Pet and FS xp.
So far FS has been way easier to deal with than the whole new pet thing....I just started a new thread about being frustrated with taming before I read this thread.
At least with the FS thing....I can get in a grinding group and Max out all of my weapon and combat xp in under an hour. Base on the popularity and speed at which I have witnessed people become full template Jedi I really dont see it as that bad of a grind.
The new CH revamp not only requires a ton of xp it also involves a TON of "wasted time" finding lame pets and using them to get their abilities. Plus all the time spent finding the critters....taming....failed taming over and over....discovering they dont have a special.....finding more to tame....Training....grinding pet xp.
I now have 20 "toons" lined up in my data pad waiting to come out and grind xp.
I always hate whining about changes and try to avoid it..... but this new CH revamp is JUST GETTING REDICULOUS!!
SOE has found a way for all us rats to chase the cheese even longer....and I fear the end result is not going to make us satified with our pets.
Spec Ialops - MCH/MBH/CM
I cap out rifles at 1.2 mill, cap pistols at 900K, cap carbines at 900K, and get roughly 300K combat XP as well. 1,200,000 + 900,000 + 900,000 + 300,000 = 3,300,000. So yes I do obtain 3.3 million in the course of learning one level 2 ability.
After5CST wrote:
Your point is taken, and known, that we have the longest non-Jedi grind in the game if we want to learn every possible ability from our pets. However,
Joker9125 wrote:
Who can honestly say the sheer legnth of the newCH grind is fair, fun, or balanced? In the time it takes me to learn ONE level 2 ability I can gain 110,000K FS combat XP...
I don't think your math is quite correct, with the current 30:1 ratio for combat XP : FS XP. (It used to be 3:1, but no longer)
110K FS XP now equals 3.3 million regular XP. Assuming the ratio of 10 weapon XP : 1 combat XP still holds true ( it did as of last night : a 7K bol would give 700 combat XP ), this means you accumulate 3M weapon XP in the time it takes to learn one ability.
For assumption purposes, I'll assume that this level 2 creature is level 66 ( highest level to get a L2 ability, worst case scenario ). Since a L66 creature will cap XP at a lower rate than you, I'll assume the ratio is appropriate, with 80:66 ~ 8:7. As a result, this L66 pet will have accumulated 2.625M creature XP by the time you've accumulated 3M weapon XP ( and 300K combat XP ).
CritterControl wrote:
instead of complaining go out and find abilities. i have 35 so far and i know someone on my server who has them all except the ones that no one can find yet. im not even grinding. i just go kill wild spawns with them on dath
Ive got 25.
*shrugs* I've demonstrated through my earlier post my own experiences, based over total XP accumulation during training. Right now I've got a L2 pet that doesn't want to teach me his ability, but the normal course has been far more sympathetic.
Based on my number crunching, I have listed in the "Top 5" thread that I feel that the current training rate is too onerous, so you have convinced me (at least to some degree) that changes are needed.
Govo wrote:
The new pet specials are kinda tied into the level of the CH. For instance a novice CH cant handle a CL 70 pet to learn its specials.
As to your feeling your "owed" something for your service time. I was a very, very good AS on another server (no im not gonna say I was the first or the best). After learning endless tricks of the trade, gathering the best resources and loot components and such, the proffession was turned on its ear. Not only did I have to gather new resources but all my knowledge was rendered pretty much useless.(armor crafting was essentially reduced to one crafting line, this took any thinking right out of the equation) Not to mention a 40 mil crafting suit that was no longer needed.
What did I do? I changed proffessions. What did I end up with? A CH and im enjoying myself
Bottom line, if it bothers you that much and your not having fun anymore...make a change. It applies to any proffesion really...just do what you have fun with. Most importantly, do not take the game all that seriously (lol I should take my own advice!)
I think that is the greatest piece of advice. If you not having fun and hate the new system, drop CH and find another profession that is fun.
I do not grind this game. If i am not having fun as a low level whatever, i change to something more enjoyable.I am having a lot of fun finding new abilities. So what if i get thousands of xp that will be wasted on nothing. I don't care to be a jebi so i don't even pay attention to the crap about xp and exchanges and the freakin' jebi grind.
If you want to be a jebi, go be a jebi. If you want to actually be a CH, then stop complaining about the grind and starting playing. The grind people keep going on about only ruins the fun. If you ignore it, you will find that you can have a lot of fun in the game. Especailly as a CH hunting down that last ability you want to make your uber dubber Nuna.