Creature Handler Archive
Thread: Top Concerns for the combat Upgrade effecting the CH profession
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enigma_writer
Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:55 am
#1
1. How pets resists, ham, specials, and armor will be effected.
2. How will wild pets be converted in the new system and will any pets be stronger then the previous system. For example Bark Mite Burrower Queen stats were significantly increased to what they are now after the december nerfs.
3. How will bio pets be converted in the new system. Since many bio pets are very old in my collection they have some uniqueness i fear that may be lost.
4. Will ch actually be balanced with other professions and be a viable and respected pvp profession once again. Its one thing for the devs to say that we will be balanced but I want to see it before I will believe it. I am not asking that we become uber once again but I do think that a master ch should have some pvp advantages that will earn the best master ch respect.
5. With the difficulty in inceasing creature spawns coming, will it be possible to solo a high lvl creature spawn such as Bull Rancor, aracne widow, etc.
6. This one will be the worst. What bugs will there be in this revamp that will hinder our ability at being successful creature handlers.
I feel that swg is really pushing this revamp through when there are still a lot of issues with it and with test center constantly going down its amazing anyone has tested for it. It is coming on May 5th as it stands so would definitely recommend finishing your templates and be ready for it to finally come.
Feel free to add any other concerns u may have about the revamp.
Milteck (BEAST)
KillerBeer
Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:49 am
#2
I have done some pretty extensive testing with pets on the test center and up to this weekend I was very happy with the PVP aspects but still concerned about the tanking abilities and the hate system in PVE. This weekend they "fixed" the ATST's with a patch and at the same time they "fixed" my pets. I had pets that had 10k plus ham and could hold their own in PVP and after the patch they were down to 6 or 7k of ham and died in a few shots. I guess we will have to wait for the final released version but I sure think they took a step backwards in the last couple of days as far as pets are concerned.
jopenack
Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:02 am
#3
Good list.
I would add the hate sytem to the list, professions and pets as it stands do not dictate roles. The hate system does. Although some people feel that not mastering a combat profession and dabbling to reduce the damage they inflict is a solution to pets tanking. I do not agree, as stated in the curb docs, we are supposed to versatile, "jack of all trades so to speak". The hate sytem has too much control over roles right now. I also do not feel spamming specials (If we get them back in pets) is a solution. In PVE fighting NPC's it may be true an intelligent enemy would try and take out the highest damage dealer. Fighting wild creatures is another story. An enraged beast of any level would strike the closest target not the target 50m away.
As you stated about pets/creature conversions I am concerned that health will be the largest difference in creature levels. making the skins pretty much a cosmetic overlay to all pets/creatures being generic. Removal of specials, stat's and other things that are not showing on TC worries me. What good is finding an ultra rare other than skin, health and damage being slighly higher. It was the specials and stats that made some of these unique.
A ch with no combat skills out taming has increased the chance of a failure and cloning with the level system in place and the damage modifiers. In the past creatures had a range of damage that if you were familiar with you could understand and prepare for. Now its left to the players level not the creatures that determines the damage. A MBE/CH grinding ch has almost no chance of surviving a failed tame and agro of acreature since one hit and your down. You will not even have a chance to burst run. Professions who choose non combat for CH and to have other professions along with it are at a point of extinction since taming would be dramatically more difficult.
I agree with the rate at this new system is pushing forward and no really accurate data can be truely tested since they have never told us what is supposed to be and what is a bug. The ch profession and probably most professions will be forced to endure months of bugs due to this release while still dealing with the bugs of old that have never been fixed let alone acknowledged.
One of my primary concerns is tapped on in the above paragraph. As we all know the NDA has several people locked into silence. The communication coming from the devs/soe is by far the worst I have ever seen it here. Vert although he is trying to do his job is totally shut off IMHO. Its easy to see this when he answers I hope not, and I don't know to many questions concerning creatures/pets on TC. he is the link between them and us. Without a proper flow of information how can they expect us to feel comfortable with the decisions they make and that bugs will be fixed. We don't even know if some of our issues are bugs or intended. The conspiracy of silence from the people who ask for testing and input then ignore us is truely one of the biggest issues that has never been addressed properly.
Thank you for your time
I feel a little better now, well maybe 2% better :-)
Message Edited by jopenack on 04-25-2005 10:10 AM
Daire_Courant
Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:10 am
#4
enigma_writer wrote:1. How pets resists, ham, specials, and armor will be effected.2. How will wild pets be converted in the new system and will any pets be stronger then the previous system. For example Bark Mite Burrower Queen stats were significantly increased to what they are now after the december nerfs.3. How will bio pets be converted in the new system. Since many bio pets are very old in my collection they have some uniqueness i fear that may be lost.4. Will ch actually be balanced with other professions and be a viable and respected pvp profession once again. Its one thing for the devs to say that we will be balanced but I want to see it before I will believe it. I am not asking that we become uber once again but I do think that a master ch should have some pvp advantages that will earn the best master ch respect.5. With the difficulty in inceasing creature spawns coming, will it be possible to solo a high lvl creature spawn such as Bull Rancor, aracne widow, etc.6. This one will be the worst. What bugs will there be in this revamp that will hinder our ability at being successful creature handlers.I feel that swg is really pushing this revamp through when there are still a lot of issues with it and with test center constantly going down its amazing anyone has tested for it. It is coming on May 5th as it stands so would definitely recommend finishing your templates and be ready for it to finally come.Feel free to add any other concerns u may have about the revamp.Milteck (BEAST)
Your missing the Point...
Specials Specials Specials
Without them a shell is just another shell. Dizzy/KD/Disease/Poison etc...thats what defines a pet
increase the ham or no or add armor....its still a shell
Axo
MCH/MR/MS
Chimaera
jopenack
Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:13 am
#5
He's not missing the point lol. he knows it well. He isjust trying to word things properly and give us room to expand onandlist his and our own concerns.
Trust me he knows lol.
Daire_Courant
Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:26 am
#6
jopenack wrote:He's not missing the point lol. he knows it well. He is just trying to word things properly and give us room to expand on and list his and our own concerns.Trust me he knows lol.
I am not disputing the desire to fix everything thats "wong/different" with the pets
All I am saying is that they rehashed the HAM system with everyone. They redid the way Armor is with everyone. So maybe they have taken out armor out of all pets and just gave a natural resistance...I don't know....But something that is happening now and What is making me worry now, is the fact that on TC-Ep3 and on TC-Chimaera there seems to be no specials. It is one of the most devastating things going on at the moment with the pets. I know there is no word coming out of the Devs about it....and I know that we are poking Vert about it. It still is very very worrying...MCH was my first Prof and I alway had an MCH since Sept 03...All throughout then...even with the nerfs there was something to distinguish the pets....you could tailor what type of CH you were....some preferred huge pets some smaller and deadlier...some unbelievably scarce pets with funky specials...that has been removed......and I might go cry now....lol
Damn....I hate arguing with fellow MCH'ers.....its beneath us.
I will add that the feel of CU is very nice and I am enjoying testing there...unfortunately I'm testing with shells......but for those who have'nt tested yet...its fun. Respec to become a BH and hunt some jedi...sick that rancor on em!!
Axo
MCH/MR/MS
Chimaera
jopenack
Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:09 am
#7
LOL
You call this an arguement. you must be a really nice guy in real life ;-)
This reason this isn't an arguement is because I agree with you lol.
All I meant when I said that was I have seen how enigma writes for a while now, he usually tries the political correct routes and I know he lurks reading everyones threads and post's but responds to very few.
I was just trying to let ya know he "should be aware" lol. hope thats better.
Actually whatyou wrote here is what he was asking for. I think this explains your concerns much better.
I wish you well my ch compadre
_________________________________________________________________________________
Daire wrote
All I am saying is that they rehashed the HAM system with everyone. They redid the way Armor is with everyone. So maybe they have taken out armor out of all pets and just gave a natural resistance...I don't know....But something that is happening now and What is making me worry now, is the fact that on TC-Ep3 and on TC-Chimaera there seems to be no specials. It is one of the most devastating things going on at the moment with the pets. I know there is no word coming out of the Devs about it....and I know that we are poking Vert about it. It still is very very worrying...MCH was my first Prof and I alway had an MCH since Sept 03...All throughout then...even with the nerfs there was something to distinguish the pets....you could tailor what type of CH you were....some preferred huge pets some smaller and deadlier...some unbelievably scarce pets with funky specials...that has been removed......and I might go cry now....lol
____________________________________________________________________________________
Joker9125
Mon Apr 25, 2005 9:32 am
#8
enigma_writer wrote:
1. How pets resists, ham, specials, and armor will be effected.
It seems that wild creatures are now cookie cutter shells that just spawn with the stats dictated by their CL. Yes creatures still have resists even though you caint see them all you have to do is check the combat logs to see that they resist damage. As far as specials go lets just wait and see. And as for armor............... its gone deal with it.
2. How will wild pets be converted in the new system and will any pets be stronger then the previous system. For example Bark Mite Burrower Queen stats were significantly increased to what they are now after the december nerfs.
Tamed wild pets will be the same as their wild counterparts.
3. How will bio pets be converted in the new system. Since many bio pets are very old in my collection they have some uniqueness i fear that may be lost.
If you choose the option to adjust level on any pet with armor it will give youa CL100+ pet however if you choose to adjust stats it will give you a pet with the average stats for that CL and it even tells you that they cannot convert them over exactly and chooseing this option may make your pet lose its uniqueness. However and pet without armor seems to not need converting
4. Will ch actually be balanced with other professions and be a viable and respected pvp profession once again. Its one thing for the devs to say that we will be balanced but I want to see it before I will believe it. I am not asking that we become uber once again but I do think that a master ch should have some pvp advantages that will earn the best master ch respect.
CH is very good in PvP right now. As long as my pets dont bug and stop attacking (new bug here) I pretty much win every duel with Mpistoleer/MCH/BH 3140
5. With the difficulty in inceasing creature spawns coming, will it be possible to solo a high lvl creature spawn such as Bull Rancor, aracne widow, etc.
Yes
6. This one will be the worst. What bugs will there be in this revamp that will hinder our ability at being successful creature handlers.
The only two left that still give me problems is that sometimes my pets will simply stop attacking mid fight for no reason and that if you do not incap your opponent in a duel pets will get "stuck" in combat with that person and will not respond to commands and can not be stored, this also prevents that person from doing things prohibited during combat.
I feel that swg is really pushing this revamp through when there are still a lot of issues with it and with test center constantly going down its amazing anyone has tested for it. It is coming on May 5th as it stands so would definitely recommend finishing your templates and be ready for it to finally come.
Hmm server instability...............Its almost like its a test server.................................
Ok seriously since they put the frogs that server has become majorly overpopulated and unstable. If they put in a no PvP zone about 1k around the frogs (nodueling or pvp within 1k of a frog)I guarntee you lag would decrease signifigantly and server stability would increase as well.
Feel free to add any other concerns u may have about the revamp.
Milteck (BEAST)
Caliet
Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:54 am
#9
I saw the wimpy (level 5?) blue frog kaadu become level 80 when I grouped with them. Ihad thekaadu fight a level 8 creature and the kaadu stomped it without taking any noticeable damage. It was late and I found this annoying so I signed off.
What is the point in finding different creatures if they all become the same once grouped? However this doescreate the opportunity to have three dwarf nunas do the tanking for you. 
Ko-aIri
Mon Apr 25, 2005 10:56 am
#10
Here's my current report of problems with the CU and CH. Anyone who is testing on TC in any form please feel free to add to this list.
- MOBs have no visible stats outside CL and Health. Therefore, pets have no visible stats, and it's impossible to tell what makes two pets or creatures different from one another.
- Special attacks are absent from pets, and apparantly from Creature MOBs as well. Pets that I *know* have specials on Live (like Toxic Merek Battlelord) do not even give the option to train a special attack when selecting from the radial menu, it's like they have been wiped.
-Pets have no Health bar once tamed and called, and are totally invulnerable. Suppose that's not a game breaker for us, but it is for other professions I imagine. Similarly, pet data does not appear in the group window making it impossible to track damage anyways.
(Corrected 4/23 patch, though group pet display likes to change size during combat to a single line health bar)
-Pets fail to cease attacking their target until the target dies. This has happened to me in both PvP and PvE, and the pet will NOT respond to commands to the contrary.
(Not seeming to happen for me anymore, can anyone confirm a fix?)
- Pets are completely and utterly unable to perform any meaningful function in PvE. The "hate" system results in direct aggro on the CH (or other damage dealer) instead of the pet, because the pets don't deal enough damage to the target to hold aggro. At least in PvP the "hate" system does not apply... but it *has* to be fixed for PvE or the CH needs some kind of aggro-taunt command added to make his pet hold the aggro.
- Pet level doesn't appear to scale correctly in a group... pets die *much* faster in combat than their CL would appear to support, and because of the con/level system a MCH has no reason to use 3 pets, as each pet would count as Level 23 (aprox) and thus be destroyed utterly by anything the CH faces that's above level 28. A single, CL 70 pet (our cap) is the only viable pet for a CH, something which is not known to be available in the wild. Even a CL 70 pet would be destroyed by a target equal to the CH's level (if CH was dual combat master level 80) so pet usefulness is pretty nil at this time.
- This is an "unknown" bug for me, but if pets count toward the group limit of 8, MCH with 3 pets will take up 4/8 of a full group, minimally 2/8 of the group with a single pet. This makes CH highly undesirable in a group setting. Haven't been able to get in a full group to test this, but I've been told the pets currently DO count against the group size.
- MOBs have no visible stats outside CL and Health. Therefore, pets have no visible stats, and it's impossible to tell what makes two pets or creatures different from one another.
- Special attacks are absent from pets, and apparantly from Creature MOBs as well. Pets that I *know* have specials on Live (like Toxic Merek Battlelord) do not even give the option to train a special attack when selecting from the radial menu, it's like they have been wiped.
-
(Corrected 4/23 patch, though group pet display likes to change size during combat to a single line health bar)
-
(Not seeming to happen for me anymore, can anyone confirm a fix?)
- Pets are completely and utterly unable to perform any meaningful function in PvE. The "hate" system results in direct aggro on the CH (or other damage dealer) instead of the pet, because the pets don't deal enough damage to the target to hold aggro. At least in PvP the "hate" system does not apply... but it *has* to be fixed for PvE or the CH needs some kind of aggro-taunt command added to make his pet hold the aggro.
- Pet level doesn't appear to scale correctly in a group... pets die *much* faster in combat than their CL would appear to support, and because of the con/level system a MCH has no reason to use 3 pets, as each pet would count as Level 23 (aprox) and thus be destroyed utterly by anything the CH faces that's above level 28. A single, CL 70 pet (our cap) is the only viable pet for a CH, something which is not known to be available in the wild. Even a CL 70 pet would be destroyed by a target equal to the CH's level (if CH was dual combat master level 80) so pet usefulness is pretty nil at this time.
- This is an "unknown" bug for me, but if pets count toward the group limit of 8, MCH with 3 pets will take up 4/8 of a full group, minimally 2/8 of the group with a single pet. This makes CH highly undesirable in a group setting. Haven't been able to get in a full group to test this, but I've been told the pets currently DO count against the group size.
Vertexon
Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:27 pm
#11
Very valuable thread. And I hadactually already been stealing from your list Ko-aIri. 
Meuw
Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:32 pm
#12
Ko-Ari they have partially fixed the bug where pets will not stop duellin or attacking if combat is ended. The pet still remains in combat and still is agro on the traget but WILL respond to stay and follow commands. But until the traget moves out of range it will not stop combat.
Plus my pet stims STILL will not work. So my WEAPONS are still at a disadvantage. My cat was beating the tar out of a TKM last night but since I could not med him he just slowly withered down while the TKM healed himself.
0nyx
Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:06 am
#13
Joker9125 wrote:
enigma_writer wrote:2. How will wild pets be converted in the new system and will any pets be stronger then the previous system. For example Bark Mite Burrower Queen stats were significantly increased to what they are now after the december nerfs.Tamed wild pets will be the same as their wild counterparts.
Some level adjustment has indeed happened with existing creatures, until we see a release candidate on TC, though, we won't really know what they are. Some are still the same level. Toxic merek avenger is now level 44 on TC--level 40 on live. A malkloc is level 20 on TC whereas it is 22 on live. Brackaset male is 30 on both. I have yet to even SEE a gurreck. Crazed gurrecks have dropped one level--24 on test, 25 on live--and are the only gurreck babies I've even seen (saw some forest stalker adults).Since wild spawns now act and do damage according to their level, there is indeed some cause for concern. Since ranged attacks and specials are still missing from the pets' repetoire, there is concern as well. We can only hope that things will get "fixed" over the next week or so. Hopefully one of these fixes will be the ability to see the stats on our pets again.
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