Creature Handler Archive
Thread: sorry guys CH don't cut it for PvP (or how I killed 2 MCH imps easily)
Page 1 of 2
taloncard
Fri May 07, 2004 7:23 pm
#1
Barb and a few others I know you have worked hard to find a way to PvP with CH and I ran into 2 of your "students" today.
2 MCH IMPS 1 buffed the other I am not sure
PETS: each 1 GM and 1 BE'ed kladuu
Special attacks: Dizzy KD
yep they had me doing backflips for a little bit, I was impressed and thought I might actually go back to using pets again.
Then the special attacks started failing.
I got up got out of range of the pets
/strafeshot2 3 shots
Boom GM's go down
Take down 1 CH the same way /sniper
THe other CH is a medic and wearing armor so a few head shots, in the meantime the other CH cloned and got his GM up again and sent his Kladuu after me again.
Same thing killed the 2nd CH, went back to the 1st pets 3 shots gone
Which by the way the mounts would not continue to attack me just the GM's.
In the end I checked the combat logs, the pets did about 300 pts of damage to me total and kept me doing back flips for 5 seconds, and I took them down in another 5 seconds.
If I had targeted the pets in the first palce (which now I know to do) they would have been at best a 5 second delay tatic.
So I guess wait for the combat balance is my answer to PvP and CH. (please don't call me TH)
2 MCH IMPS 1 buffed the other I am not sure
PETS: each 1 GM and 1 BE'ed kladuu
Special attacks: Dizzy KD
yep they had me doing backflips for a little bit, I was impressed and thought I might actually go back to using pets again.
Then the special attacks started failing.
I got up got out of range of the pets
/strafeshot2 3 shots
Boom GM's go down
Take down 1 CH the same way /sniper
THe other CH is a medic and wearing armor so a few head shots, in the meantime the other CH cloned and got his GM up again and sent his Kladuu after me again.
Same thing killed the 2nd CH, went back to the 1st pets 3 shots gone
Which by the way the mounts would not continue to attack me just the GM's.
In the end I checked the combat logs, the pets did about 300 pts of damage to me total and kept me doing back flips for 5 seconds, and I took them down in another 5 seconds.
If I had targeted the pets in the first palce (which now I know to do) they would have been at best a 5 second delay tatic.
So I guess wait for the combat balance is my answer to PvP and CH. (please don't call me TH)
TheLoneBowler
Fri May 07, 2004 7:31 pm
#2
2 pets (preferrably gurreks): intimidate/stun and cripple/intimidate.
macro petattack
{
/tellpet special1; /pause1; /tellpet special2; /pause 1;
/macro petattack;
}
/knockdown2;
Use TKA and/orfencer skills to quickly finish the fight
Message Edited by TheLoneBowler on 05-07-2004 08:34 PM
taloncard
Fri May 07, 2004 7:53 pm
#3
right once again using TKA and fencer both really kick ass professions in their own right.
As I said they had KD /dizzy attacks but they don't last as long as player KD/dizzy and only were a momentary distraction.
They will work well against a non elite master but a elite master, pets are just a distraction.
I have been on both sides of the battle using them and haveing them used against me.
Sorry I still find them only a delay tactic.
As I said they had KD /dizzy attacks but they don't last as long as player KD/dizzy and only were a momentary distraction.
They will work well against a non elite master but a elite master, pets are just a distraction.
I have been on both sides of the battle using them and haveing them used against me.
Sorry I still find them only a delay tactic.
TheLoneBowler
Fri May 07, 2004 8:54 pm
#4
Well my point was that the pets provide a constant state of intimidation and stun, and cripple when people try to run away. Without my pets I am much weaker because of the state effects they do. The damage they do is negligible. Keep in mind kd+dizzy will probably only work once with pets and are overrated. It is best to stick with blind/stun/intimidate so that the enemy damage to you and your pets is minimal. I also have specific resistance pets I like for different things. (60kin/40en, 40kin/60en, 98heat/60kin/45en, etc) They just have to last long enough for me to get close but that makes all the difference in the world when my pet gurrek cripples and intimidates while I burstrun in on a rifleman.
TheLoneBowler
Fri May 07, 2004 9:10 pm
#5
However I can see your point- that if you expect your pets to do the fight for you you are sorely mistaken. I use them as an added skill tape/buff, like +50 intimidate/stun 500s 
Most times I can keep my pets alive for one fight but then I have to switch them out or heal them.
Juggalosaurus
Fri May 07, 2004 9:49 pm
#6
I use a mantrigrue screecher as my own lil CM for PvP
I've actually had my other pets take some people down for me, though.
DarkDeathDude
Sat May 08, 2004 4:19 am
#7
hehe Ill take u on,
me with myMDoc skills and my 2 Rancors
i have no combat skills at all, but took out a squad of stormies alone with pets,
last night was killing force crystal hunters, a slow process but i did it
hehe thank good i had a lot of stims! hahaha
but in pvp TKA trash my rancs in like 10 secs! lol
fantoq
Sat May 08, 2004 6:30 am
#8
taloncard wrote:
In the end I checked the combat logs, the pets did about 300 pts of damage to me total and kept me doing back flips for 5 seconds, and I took them down in another 5 seconds.
So I guess wait for the combat balance is my answer to PvP and CH. (please don't call me TH)
Hey Talon,
That would seem to be a major problem to begin with andI think we are plagued by that. Pets are not dealing out anywhere near the advertised damage.
For one, the to-hitdoesn't seem to be ahit/miss ratio as I thought. It seems to play into effectiveness as well. Curious what your armor and buffs were.
Another thing I'm not sure of is once the dizzy flag is on a target, what is the effectiveness of more dizzy attacks? Seems like DoT attacks add to the time, not the intensity. I can see KD as a good one to repeat.
Barb-Wire
Sat May 08, 2004 7:02 am
#9
making CH "uber" is not why or what the point of my posting is all about on CH in PVP.
i know that CH alone is a very poor skill for PVP the way it is now. BUT there area a lot of CH that want to participate that do not want to give up the skill of master creature handler. my intent is not to make me or anyone else into a fotm or golden template class. my aim is to give CH a means of being able to use their pets in combat.
people that are learning to use thier pets now effectively will have an enormous advantage when the combat nerf... i mean revamp hits. all the combat classes are going to be brought in line with current stats and abilities of creatures.
now the REAL question you have to ask yourself was it more fun fighting someone that wasnt swinging a stun stick and dropping disease and poisons on you from 80+ meters??
taloncard
Sat May 08, 2004 7:09 am
#10
I agree with you barb,
Here is my point also.
I don't like to use my pets as sacrificial lambs. I cost the MCH's at least 2 Vit points per pet, in the end for nothing.
I know they arene't real but I have more love and respect for my pets than to abuse them in that manner.
Here is my point also.
I don't like to use my pets as sacrificial lambs. I cost the MCH's at least 2 Vit points per pet, in the end for nothing.
I know they arene't real but I have more love and respect for my pets than to abuse them in that manner.
TwoShots02
Mon May 10, 2004 2:21 pm
#11
One thing that MUST be understood: CH is NOT a primary class! It can't be because of the game's configuration of mixed classes.
I know many of us want it to be a primary but that just isn't going to happen. These constant comparisons of class X vs. CH is completely unrealistic since it leaves out that fact that CH are meant to be weaker than a player. The reasoning was given when the CH rebalance happened. Whether or not you agree with those reasons is really not an issue. The decision has been made now we have to live with it and adapt.
Pets are meant to act as tanks(in PvE)and state inflictors (states that don't go into your combat queue I might add). Thats about it. They aren't about to become good at damage since thats what your guns/melee weapons are for. The pet damage is just a bouns! They enhance your fighting ablities but they don't replace them. Taloncard said himself that he was doing backflips for a little bit...what were the MCHs doing during that time? If either of them had strafeshot2 i am sure we would have been hearing a different story.
A non-combat class/CH combo is unrealistic to PvP with unless you arein agroup...Accept it. A stacker will almost always beat a CH (actually ALL classes have trouble fighting stackers)...Accept it. There will always be another combo of class that can be better than us but that doesn't mean they are always going to beat us. Its what our pets can bring to another combat class or mix of classes that make us useful plus the coolness factor of course.
Are we uber? Heck no! But are we useless? Not by a longshot. My pets now can close the range on a Rifleman usually before he can kill both of them. In the time it takes him to do that he is either already on his back and dizzy or Intimidated enough that I can close the range myself and rip him a new one with my pike (thats righta regular player-madepike!).
Let me ask you something. When you go out hunting or PvPing do you get buffs? What about buffing your pets? I am not talking about those little food pet buffs I mean the real doctor buffs. Some of you do I am sure but how many of those actually buff the regen stats? I tell you what it makes a big big difference when your pet is healing when he isn't targeted (and it saves a fortune on stims).
How many of you use a specials macro for your pets? Again this is very helpful in pvp and pve and can free up some of your time to focus on your own specials. You and your pets are a TEAM. Make sure you are doing your part! Also understand what the specials actually do. Many don't know what that stun not only delays someone slightly it also reduces the targets defences to things like Knockdown and dizzy. Intimidate cuts their damage by 50%! If they manage to land that can ruin a fencer's day as their damage is pretty weak as it is.
Got BE pets? Instead of making it a Kimo or Gurrek that can be seen coming a mile away how about getting some Kimas or Beared Jax made with your specials in them. Tell you what in a group raid NOBODY will see those little guys with all the action going on.
Here is another fun one. You are in a PvP group but you know the guy with the pets tends to get shot first. So use follow other on someone and let your pets draw fire away from you then engage the target with your pet. The will run from the guy they are following and to the target. Guess who will look like they are the CH? Pets make great decoys! Who says they have to fight?
Barb is someone who is trying to take what has changed in CH and make it work which is more than I can say for some of you! This isn't a contest to prove Barb wrong. I am sorry to say that our community is bitter. This is to be expected considering where we were. But that was then and those days are gone....Accept it! They aren't going to change us anymore. This class is what it is give or take a few bugs. There is no purpose in these constant posts about how CH sucks in PvP and other classes are better. Well duh! But i can say the same for pretty much all combat classes that don't target mind. Buffs and armor have thrown the combat system out of wack due to design flaws and will have to be fixed. PvP is hard and the combat system is out of wack. With the CB balance you will see the biggest nerf this game has ever known butthe game and CHswill be betterbecause ofit.
CH has a lot of promise. As new ablities and pets come along it will continue to be a lot of fun.
TwoShots02
Mon May 10, 2004 2:31 pm
#12
After rereading my post it seems that I was aiming my statements at taloncard. This was not meant to bethe case and I am sorry that it read that way. It was meant as a general statement to the whole community.
These constant posts about MCHs getting owned is really getting old and is getting us nowhere. It would be more constructive to figure out how to make pets more useful NOW and not what the devs can change for us. Barb is on the right track and is actually trying.
The original post from talon didn't mention anything about a combat class just MCHs. Nobody is or should be suprised they lost. Those MCHs should stop abusing their pets and learn how to use them correctly.
KzinKiller
Mon May 10, 2004 3:04 pm
#13
These constant posts about MCHs getting owned is really getting old and is getting us nowhere. It would be more constructive to figure out how to make pets more useful NOW and not what the devs can change for us. Barb is on the right track and is actually trying.
We already know exactly what it would take to accomplish this ... the devs and our own correspondent consistently ignore any suggestion of rolling back Pub 5 and putting us back on an even footing in the PvP world, so why spin our wheels coming up with a bunch of Rube Goldberg ways of accomplishing the same thing?
They want us crippled, they have us crippled, and we'll be crippled until at least 2005 ... any suggestions on 'improvement' are just a way of venting and providing new insightful input for the devs to ignore.
Page 1 of 2