Creature Handler Archive

Thread: tanking ability?..question for Vert

hossp
Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:39 pm
#1

really, my biggest concen involves the pet's abilty to tank...my current temp is mrifle/mch..a common template with ch's across the galaxies. it is a common template because it works; pets hold aggro and rifle deals damage (you can sub any ranged;carb/pistol instead of rifle)


from what i have been reading it appears that SOE is going to take the "hate" system from EQ (which SOE owns) and implement it in SWG..this system has the target aggro the primary damage dealer, a complete 180 from the current system...


if pets cannot tank, they will be of no use to me..the documents are very vauge on this issue


my question is simply: will pet's be able to tank?, or will we have to adopt a /special/peace/run likehell/lpetattack/special/peace/runlikehell/petattack..repeat 1000000 times style of gameplay?


is it going to be everquest? or is there something new in the works?


this is a popular question on my server, so i assume it is on others..if ch cannot tank effectivly, what good is it?

despite many of my posts , i am not being sarcastic this time..i really would like the best legal answer i can get...tia



Maega Armor
12 pt. IMP FACTIONAL SPECIALIST
Darksword, Naboo
Cantina behind the Shuttle -6944 2055
Cheapest 99% Jinsu Razor Kits @ -6935 2054, and New RE Monkey vendor (Raw Space Loot & soon Re Ground Components)
Ekaw
Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:26 am
#2

well, agro works like that now. When you send in your pet, if specials are not applied all the animals will come after YOU. That is why I use the specials macro in my sig currently. The pet delivers a state, demanding a respons from the creature.


I dont really see how this is different.


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hossp
Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:45 am
#3






Ekaw wrote:

well, agro works like that now. When you send in your pet, if specials are not applied all the animals will come after YOU. That is why I use the specials macro in my sig currently. The pet delivers a state, demanding a respons from the creature.


I dont really see how this is different.


:\







what game are you playing?..lol..i NEVER use pet specials intentionally, as they serve no purpose, to me,for most pve...perhaps you aren't using a ranged profession..but for ranged, currently the pet holds aggro and will even break the aggro of a charging ancient bull rancor...the aggro currently is not based on damage dealt, as i easily do 4-6X more damage than my pets...


ekaw, i really don't see what you are saying, i read it but, are you honestly saying if you are 60m away from a target, send in a pet..and it aggro's you if it doesnt' land a special?



anyhow back to the original post...what i want to know, is will pets be able to hold aggor in the new system, as they do, yes ekaw, they do, now?




Maega Armor
12 pt. IMP FACTIONAL SPECIALIST
Darksword, Naboo
Cantina behind the Shuttle -6944 2055
Cheapest 99% Jinsu Razor Kits @ -6935 2054, and New RE Monkey vendor (Raw Space Loot & soon Re Ground Components)
jopenack
Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:55 am
#4

A long time ago they changed the chance factor or percentage in how mobs agro with ch and pets. It basically increased the chance a mob/creature would, when attacked by your pet, run past the pet and attack you. It appears to even work with people grouped. If your friend fires at a creature that creature may attack you instead of him if grouped.


Most ch dont rely on specials to by-pass this its not needed nor are macros. distance matters and having the guard command on is more useful. as a rifleman or even melee char runs toward a target sending pets in while you are beyond the 60m mark will allow the pets to strike first, firing if you areranged charafter pets engaged or running behind pets if melee char then striking after pets have agro is all you need to do.


99% of the time just taking a few seconds to set yourself up is all that matters, guard comand i find useful if things spawn around you while in battle or traveling, most times the pets jump right in and take the agro from me, at the most I may have to run about 25m and im free of the agro.



SHADOWFIRE - MASTER CREATURE HANDLER / MASTER RIFLEMAN

TEMPEST MTK/MD - WANDERHOME MT/MM -???-???

"Creature Handlers are not 1% of the population, they are over the 50% mark, the 1% excuse is a flat out lie"
hossp
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:20 am
#5






jopenack wrote:

A long time ago they changed the chance factor or percentage in how mobs agro with ch and pets. It basically increased the chance a mob/creature would, when attacked by your pet, run past the pet and attack you. It appears to even work with people grouped. If your friend fires at a creature that creature may attack you instead of him if grouped.


Most ch dont rely on specials to by-pass this its not needed nor are macros. distance matters and having the guard command on is more useful. as a rifleman or even melee char runs toward a target sending pets in while you are beyond the 60m mark will allow the pets to strike first, firing if you areranged charafter pets engaged or running behind pets if melee char then striking after pets have agro is all you need to do.


99% of the time just taking a few seconds to set yourself up is all that matters, guard comand i find useful if things spawn around you while in battle or traveling, most times the pets jump right in and take the agro from me, at the most I may have to run about 25m and im free of the agro.






exactly...what i'm trying to determine is weather or not we will be able to play this way with the EQ hate system..if the target always goes for the primary damage dealer, i anticipate this could be a big problem for solo pve..seems like a valid question to me



Maega Armor
12 pt. IMP FACTIONAL SPECIALIST
Darksword, Naboo
Cantina behind the Shuttle -6944 2055
Cheapest 99% Jinsu Razor Kits @ -6935 2054, and New RE Monkey vendor (Raw Space Loot & soon Re Ground Components)
cleekjc
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:28 am
#6

Actually if you are with in 30m of your target you stand a good chance of taking agro, so does any one else PC or other pet included.


I have never had something agro me 50m+ out when using a pet..........................



The big question is if the hate system is what we fear....will the rifleman cover beable to make up fror it?



if not thats it for me and SWG...........................
jopenack
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:40 am
#7

yea hossp we asked about it in talons thread, seems to be we will hold agro not our pets, it has been implied to have faith in the testers and vert that our concerns will be brought forth.


my concern isnt that the concerns of the community (like the hate system) will be brought forth to the powers that be, my concern is will they care and do anything to keep us ch with no innate abilty from being slaughtered


yes a second profession could help but then why have pets at all lol.





SHADOWFIRE - MASTER CREATURE HANDLER / MASTER RIFLEMAN

TEMPEST MTK/MD - WANDERHOME MT/MM -???-???

"Creature Handlers are not 1% of the population, they are over the 50% mark, the 1% excuse is a flat out lie"
SioBabble
Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:56 am
#8

At present, I nearly always send my pets in on a mission lair from 64m out, to make sure the pet is the target of the lair guardians'ire (we're talking NPCs and social creatures here), not me. I then move in and attack the target the pet is attacking, and in general, the pet will move on to the next target after dispatching the first, and I will follow along.


When I'm ambushed in the wild, guard does the trick, usually, because the pet will jump on the aggro and I'll have periods where the aggro attempts to focus back on me, but the pet is persistent and keeps attacking, so the music will start and stop abruptly until I take an active interest to start dealing damage.


If the "hate" system works the way I think it does, there will be a serious problem with pets who can't hope to outdamage me, since anyone with fourth tier marksman skills, and a decent certified weapon, will probably outdamage a natural rancor or gurreck for the most part. Let alone novice elite ranged players, who will routinely out damage any pet. Ditto for the hybrids, particularly heavy weapon wielders. A master commando with flame single 2 and a good sliced FT can achieve 11k hits, and routinely hits in the 9k to 10k range.


We'll have to see how this plays out in testing (I haven't gone in and tried yet..was there an announcement I missed?) and make sufficient noise if pets are rendered non-tanks. Should this be the case, the "hate" system will be an effective nerf of CH.




Tazz vonMannstein Baron-Administrator of Corellia, master navigator of Corellia, captain of the Gregarious Gurreck

Sio Babble MBH/MCH/Cabana Boy; master of Tyson, the GNORT OF DEATH

Jeffn Akbar Nerfed from here to Lok MD/MCM

Zanti Agaesia Bothan MBE, 12 point Master Chef, Havoc Squadron Ace pilot


Erzengal
Thu Mar 31, 2005 1:23 pm
#9

Hopefully through the testing on TC, we will be able to keep the new hate system from ruining pets tanking abilities.

I played a Necromancer in EQ2 for around a bit over a month until I left in disgust due to the horrid systems they had.

In EQ2, the only thing I could do to an enemy was put 2 small DoTs on them, anything more and the MOB would charge me, and never go back to the pet. In groups, MOBs would very rarely stick to a pet, if they did, the moment someone used a heal, or a damage attack, the MOB would go for them.

Medic heals the group once, or one person uses a high damage ability = dead person, with the tankers taunt not doing anything to bring the MOB off the squishies.

I enjoy playing SWG, I do NOT enjoy playing EQ2. Merging the two together will NOT make me want to play either games.
Ekaw
Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:35 pm
#10







hossp wrote:





Ekaw wrote:

well, agro works like that now. When you send in your pet, if specials are not applied all the animals will come after YOU. That is why I use the specials macro in my sig currently. The pet delivers a state, demanding a respons from the creature.


I dont really see how this is different.


:\







what game are you playing?..lol..i NEVER use pet specials intentionally, as they serve no purpose, to me,for most pve...perhaps you aren't using a ranged profession..but for ranged, currently the pet holds aggro and will even break the aggro of a charging ancient bull rancor...the aggro currently is not based on damage dealt, as i easily do 4-6X more damage than my pets...


ekaw, i really don't see what you are saying, i read it but, are you honestly saying if you are 60m away from a target, send in a pet..and it aggro's you if it doesnt' land a special?



anyhow back to the original post...what i want to know, is will pets be able to hold aggor in the new system, as they do, yes ekaw, they do, now?






uh, not as a result of damage dealt, but they do come after YOU if your pet does not attack them. If you send ina gurrek, and have three rancor, one fairly close to you, and you then tell the pet to attack a rancor further away from you, you better believe the others havea good chance of coming after you first before they help their buddy.


That is how it has worked for a good while, they changed it a while back, around the time they nerfed CH.





"When I'm ambushed in the wild, guard does the trick, usually, because the pet will jump on the aggro and I'll have periods where the aggro attempts to focus back on me, but the pet is persistent and keeps attacking, so the music will start and stop abruptly until I take an active interest to start dealing damage."



^ this is what I am referring to, the thing about being in th wild with the music. SPecials DO get a targets attention much faster hosp. I dont know why, but an arsel oad of experience tells me it is the case.



doh, i am just tired hosp, worke 55 hours this week already.



This is what I was referring to:



"jopenack wrote:A long time ago they changed the chance factor or percentage in how mobs agro with ch and pets. It basically increased the chance a mob/creature would, when attacked by your pet, run past the pet and attack you. It appears to even work with people grouped. If your friend fires at a creature that creature may attack you instead of him if grouped.



Most ch dont rely on specials to by-pass this its not needed nor are macros. distance matters and having the guard command on is more useful. as a rifleman or even melee char runs toward a target sending pets in while you are beyond the 60m mark will allow the pets to strike first, firing if you areranged charafter pets engaged or running behind pets if melee char then striking after pets have agro is all you need to do.


99% of the time just taking a few seconds to set yourself up is all that matters, guard comand i find useful if things spawn around you while in battle or traveling, most times the pets jump right in and take the agro from me, at the most I may have to run about 25m and im free of the agro."


Message Edited by Ekaw on 03-31-2005 09:37 PM


bahh, off to bed.

Message Edited by Ekaw on 03-31-2005 10:38 PM



/sig

Master the Creature Handler profession, the most rewarding profession in Star Wars Galaxies...

Leet Creature Handling 101: Macros
Vertexon
Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:22 pm
#11

I'm working on a test plan and this is one of the items to investigate. I definitely understand the concern and plan to check it out.



-Vertexon.
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